Happened to catch this, apparantly, minutes after you posted. The internet still strikes me as remarkable. Anywho...
Chris responding to me:
> I'd say that this is accurate. What grows where
> changes remarkably from year to year, except in the
> grasslands.
Agreed. I'm realizing our views are more similar as we discuss this
further. With the word 'balance' I was referring to dynamic
equilibrium in the ecological sense. Annual changes occur as always
(especially in a flashy system like the Wastes with several large,
influential disturbance regimes) but on a grand scale, the Wastes are
business as usual. Said another way, if the Wastes were out of
equilibrium, one particular community type would be replacing a prior
type. I realize that this is what happened in the Godtime with the
death of Genert, but that was long ago and the landscape has reached
a new, although very different, equilibrium. Unless there is some
reason I don't know of that environmental conditions have changed
significantly over the past century or two?
> The Serpents are probably critical here. They don't
> let water go. They suck it down into Dead Bottom.
I must defer to you here. Your prior mentioning of the Serpents is
the first I have heard of this (that I recollect at least). I'm
assuming the Serpents are arroyos with mythological importance?
> Seasonal stream are marked on some maps, but it
> depends on what area you are talking about. In Prax
> proper, there is little because there are so many
> areas that soak up water in dofferent ways: the good
> grazing areas are large, the swamp soaks up a lot, and
> the Dead Place kills water spirits just like other
> spirits.
But it would have to get to these 'sinks' somehow, hence ephemeral
channels (Serpents?). Sheet flow is an uncommon way for water to
travel.
> I don't see that being true, though I probably should
> not have said "all". Does it distinguish between
> Praxian Winter, Winter Fertile, and Summer? My
> Glorantha may vary here.
River of Cradles breaks it down by Season Early and Late, thus two
numbers for each season. It breaks down as follows:
Sea-E 10"
Sea-L 4"
Fire none
Earth-E 2"
Earth-L 3"
Dark-E 2"
Dark-L 4"
Storm-E 6"
Storm-L 10"
Sacred 3"
By far most of the rain falls in Sea and Storm, but in any other season (except Fire) there is enough rain to support the vegetation communites, hence my confusion and resistance. But I'm willing to rethink this, you definitely have a better understanding of the area than I.
Nonsequitor: why so little rain in Sacred Time bracketed by large amounts of rain in late Storm and early Sea?
> The rest of the Wastes is a mix. In the southern
> grasslands, there is little runoff -- the ground soaks
> most of it up, so you have enough to support prairie.
> In other areas, I suspect there are other reasons for
> what you see. The Rain Man winds probably don't reach
> the Cactus Forest, for example, because Storm Bull is
> in the way. In the north, you don't get the Rain Man
> winds because they are blocked by mountains, but
> winter stoms seem to come south (otherwise, there
> would be no "snowline").
Most of this is the first I've heard of it. Storm Bull wind is old
hat, but Rain Man is new to me. I have several sources for maps of
Prax and Zola Fel, but what source has a decent map of the Wastes?
> Well, perhaps. We know that there is a lot of silt
> because of the descriptions of areas further
> downstream. I see a lot more erosion throughout the
> valley due to the annual flood that sweeps down off of
> Vulture's Country; I can't see the silt from Vulture's
> Country as being highly fertile. I see the VC run-off
> pushing the existing soil (east of the river) towards
> the river in the winter and the spring snowmelt flood
> sweeping it downstream.
So, you don't see the valley as being a depositional zone? River of
Cradles describes the river as "leisurely in pace, with many long
lake-like pools, and without serious obstacles". This gave me the
impression that the river was in equilibrium, not significantly
agrading or cutting. With this picture, the Zola Fel would overbank
on "average years" (granted that term is sort of silly with such a
flashy system), but could barely be navigable in drought years, and
could be catostrophic in big rain years, or rain on snow events.
Most importantly, it would mean Pavis and Sun Counties would be the
best farmland, but living next to the river in these areas would be a
struggle fit for a heroquest. Further downstream in the Grantlands,
the arable land is much poorer in quality, but the river generally
behaves more dependably having already diffused its energy upstream.
(those louts upstream receive all the hassle). I could even see the
Grantlands section of the river having less seasonality due to the
large flood sourced groundwater aquifers of Pavis and Sun County
fueling the flow downstream. I can go on about the narrow canyon
being a nickpoint and the subterrenean bedrock "pushing" the river
above ground yadda yadda.
If the river is actively cutting in the upper reaches, I would expect steep banks, lots of active erosion, not much meandering, and no overbank flooding each spring. It would behave more like a perennial wash or arroyo (I know its an oxymoron), and would be fairly safe to live by in Pavis County, and possibly even Sun County (just don't go near it in Sea Season children.), but would be devastatingly dangerous to live by down river near the Grantlands. It also means the best farmland would be just below the Grantlands canyon where an enormous annual flood, spills its wad every year (or wherever this flood erupts from the steep banked channel and spills onto a flood plain).
> We're pretty close together on the picture. The
> Wastes, though, are more sharply divided: some areas
> are fine grasslands; others are unpleasant scrub. The
> fertility is patchy for purely magical reasons.
Interesting. I actually don't have any good sources for the Wastes.
No maps or articles that I know of. River of Cradles describes
Genert's Wastes as a trackless desert, which gave me a different
mental image, but admittedly leaves alot of room for interpretation.
What are your sources or inspirations?
> Prax is generally both more consistent and better
> quality, leaving the Dead Place aside. Look at the
> names of the regions -- the Sacred Ground, the Good
> Place, the Better Place are all excellent grazing.
> The Sacred Grounds are lush prairie.
Agreed.
> This seems about right. Your prior descriptions made
> me picture mixed woodlands, continual streams, etc.
> I'd agree with good prairie bordered by marginal
> scrub. I still think this is the hardest life a
> Heortling farmer experiences: lack of wood, metal
> being very expensive, horses being risky at best. Sod
> breaking is tough work, especially if they have to use
> oxen.
No, I think what I was trying to say, is that mixed woodland with
perenniel streams is what I picture when I hear 44" of rain falling
with Mediterranean seasonality. Obviously this doesn't fit with my
mental image of the region, which is why I began the discussion.
I think we are pretty much agreed on the "look and feel" of the place, but I am struggling with understanding where hundreds of thousands of acre feet of water go when it falls in 2 weeks in Sea Season? Is this because of my ignorance of Serpents? Without some mechanism I envision some major ephemeral streams in Prax. Or if there are none, then I would imagine that large basins prevent water from flowing out, and instead many large vernal pools fill up in winter. Again there is no evidence of either from published maps so I keep coming back to less rainfall.
Cheers,
Mitch
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