> However all that's known (with quasi-certainty) is that the Pharaoh
> was on the Other Side when he failed to pay the right type of coin
> to the Men in Red in order to cross a River. Given the motif of
> crossing the River of the Dead, it could just as easily be in Dark
> Season. With a bit of stretching, correspondences for other
> elements, seasons and sixths could be made.
Sure. What we do know is that he was on his way back from the Underworld. What we assume is that he had gone there reenacting one of his victories.
> As a result, is his theory wrong? No. But it is far from generally
> accepted.
As this discussion and previous ones like the one on Lokarnos (Belintar, Year Kings and MoLaD) clearly show:
http://lokarnos.com/article.pl?sid=03/07/17/1147241&mode=thread
> Hence I do feel that Joerg could be more clear
> about whether something is his personal opinion or not.
Unless it is published by Greg, everything I say is my personal opinion, usually based on how I read the official sources. I don't speak with the voice of Issaries Inc.
> My own suspicion is that given the correspondences of
> Hepherones (Masters of Luck and Death p66) and recent
> revelations about the Lunar Otherworld and the identity of
> the unspecified sixth element (Pharaonic) goes something
> like this.
> The Pharaonic Wonder that is Holy Country Other Side
> is not one of the three standard otherworlds or the
> Heroplanes, but like the Surface of the Moon, an
> otherworld in its own right (looking something like the
> Spiral Map on Arcane Lore p43).
A "common" Otherworld. Or, to repeat my old positions, Creation in a nutshell.
I think it is most likely linked to "I Fought We Won" or the Unity Battle, and that the Only Old One was connected to it, too.
I agree it is not the ordinary Hero Planes.
I'm less certain that it is not in the God World, after all even the trolls worship Argan Argar in a theist mode.
> Now if we look at the correspondences of Hepherones.
> we see the Red is the colour of the North Direction
> of which the element is unspecified.
Looking closely, I also find the directions West for Storm and East for Earth, which don't quite correspond to the Holy Country.
> Hence the Pharaoh
> was doing a ritual involving the Sixth Element and by
> extension, the land of God Forgot.
All we know (and I failed to locate the exact non-Joerg source for that knowledge, other than Nick's digest post referenced by the Lokarnos link which gives the entire parcel that I mentioned) is that on his way back from the Underworld he encounters the red guards, and his usual means of getting past them fails.
> Now it's certainly the case that the God Forgot looks
> nothing like the Lunar Empire or even the known
> correspondences of Hepherones' Sixth element.
The correspondence "human" isn't that bad, but the direction North is somewhat puzzling. "Silver" pretty much describes the Pharaoh's finances taken from Casino Town.
The Five-Rune Ring calls the Gold Wheel Dancers the "Silver People" and true holders of the Man Rune (MoLaD p.58). Could be another lead to Belintar's Sixth Otherworld?
> If anything, it should be the Limbo that appears in the
> Spiral Map (that is, if the Pope hasn't abolished it).
Note that the Holy Country does have its very own Chaos void below Foulblood Forest.
> My guess is that through much of his reign, the
> Pharaoh thought it was Limbo and treated it as such.
> It was only when the Lunar Empire drew near that
> the Pharaoh became aware that it might not be and
> started to investigate it more thoroughly. In doing so,
> he created connections that the Lunars found and
> used to assassinate him.
> So in my theory, the Pharaoh is either on the Other
> Side corresponding to God Forgot or in the City of
> Wonders. The time is probably Sacred Time because
> that's all that are left in the Calender once the five
> seasons have been removed.
At least we agree about the season when the Pharaoh used to visit God Forgot.
I don't see why Belintar's Return from Hell quest should be anchored in God Forgot. AFAIK he first returned from Hell during his conquest of Kethaela in Caladraland, in his own body after being thrown into the Volcano. Reappearing where the body had been destroyed was pretty much the point of the exercise.
Having the Pharaoh disappear in Sacred Time means he was present when the Wolf Pirates plundered his city (unless this was while he campaigned against Greymane).
How well do Lunar scholars know the Hepherones Philosophy?
> So where would the Lunar Conspirators have done
> the ritual? Anywhere there was a Lunar Temple
> is the answer although for practical reasons, they
> might have chosen a Lunar Temple closest to the
> Holy Country.
> The New Lunar Temple is ruled out because Tatius
> the Bright doesn't play a part in the assassination
> and more importantly doesn't begin its construction
> until some five years later.
If Tatius was in Sartar at the time, he would have taken part in this, and his support would have amounted to something.
> Hence the nearest temple
> would probably be the Temple of the Seven Mothers
> in Boldhome unless there was a decent temple in
> Wilmskirk at the time.
The temples in Bagnot or Dunstop aren't that much farther, and more established. Neither they nor Boldhome have any correspondence to the Holy Country, though. I doubt Wilmskirk had more than a regimental shrine and an Etyries shrine, it is a fairly small city.
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