Re: Heortling Mills

From: rmv1_at_...
Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:41:15 -0000

[Bryan Thexton makes good points regarding windmills.]
> A bunch of these points have been made already in this discussion,
> and by and large I agree that heortlings *can* make mills. The
> point I was trying to make, although apparently not very clearly,
> is that building a mill that actually works is non-trivial.
I thought your point was clear; I think we're just chewing over the theological aspects right now. It is certainly a non-trivial expense, yet, once the technology was available in our world, they started popping up with frequency; at least, that is what the historians will have you believe. The first written reference to a windmill is from 1181. Yet, in 1195 (IIRC) the Pope was able to institute a tariff on windmills, indicating IMO that they were recognized as a valuable and prevalent resource. Soon, lords were making hand guerns illegal so that they could extract a 'use-tax' (typically, I believe, one-third of the grain ground although that seems high) from the peasants grinding their grain at their lord's mill. 'Windmill wars' occurred, where powerful landowners tried to prevent their neighbors from constructing their own mills so that they could continue to reap the profits.

> It either takes inherited knowledge, magically gained knowledge, or
> a gifted tinkerer who can work out the details through trial and
> error.

This being Glorantha, this seems like a Hero and his worshippers, to me...

> Most clans don't have the resources and curiousity to put these
> sort of resources in the hands of someone who wants to build
> something new and hasn't worked out the fine details yet, although
> no doubt there could be clans so blessed.
Agreed as far as the high resources... Maybe make the method of construction a Secret of the Hiorl the Miller subcult, or Orstan the Carpenter, and have the miller be one of the few people allowed inside.

> I'm willing to believe in either hereditary knowledge or magically
> gained knowledge, which is why I've suggested elsewhere that
> different clans or tribes may have different styles of windmills.
Sure, you'll have vertical windmills, open-framework post-mills and closed-framework post-mills (such as the one at Old Wind). For one thing, variety is the spice of gaming...

> All the same, I think that a windmill only makes sense for a clan
> that gets a very high return on its labour.
I think that there's little free time for the adults of the clan. I think they can use the extra time they get to do other needful things, i.e. maintaining houses and buildings, planning the next crop rotation, etc. I think with the religious requirements of communal worship, time is a valuable commodity.

> - water mills were in use in many, many, places long before
> windmills were. Anywere that there are many streams with a good
> current watermills are probably generally more practical (i.e.
> easier to build and more reliably powered) than windmills. Most of
> Sartar seems blessed with hilly ground and adequate precipitation,
> so water mills would generally make more sense there. Now,
> theologically windmills are more appropriate, but I'd still imagine
> watermills being more common for practical purposes. I'd generally
> imagine those that needed the labour savings to build water mills,
> and those that wanted the magic and prestige to build a windmill.
I believe watermills would require the acquiesence of the river nymph involved. At the very least, propitiary worship would be appropriate to appease her. Maybe I need to expand my Hiorl the Miller dscription; I forgot completely about the watermills...

Roland