On Sat, 5 May 2007, John Patrick Hughes wrote:
Yay John
Much cut cause I agree with it
> However, when we act in the same role for our wider community – when we
> publish scenarios or stories or myths – the feedback can be less
> immediate.
We have to remember what our community is. Our community is in this world. That does occasionally get remembered. Theintroduiction of Vinga in the first place proves it. So what if Vinga is not terribly culturally important in Glorantha? To be honest I doubt she's any particularly less important, if you measure it in terms of numbers, than say Chalanna Arroy. So she got a lot of pages. Good thing. If we gave pages on terms of "cultural" importance Thunder rebels would be about six times the length of Storm Tribe and Jera the Herbalist would have a longer write up than Humakt, let alone Vinga.
Purity to the mythic conception is a wonderful thing, but my experience with Glorantha players tells me it's only a minority that pays any attention to the mythic purity. They want a game they find playable. Their defintion of playable will be dictated by their preconceptions (and a whole lot of other anthropological terms that John could supply). If you want a lovely pure conception, and one that that is going to piss them off, go right ahead. But don't ignore the consequences.
> Vinga is one of the most important goddesses to the Gloranthan
> community. To players (especially female players) and to Heortlings alike
> she represents a refreshing change from the boys-own masculinist tripe
> that characterises so much of Heortling myth and so many of our campaigns.
Exactly. People roleplay to do things they can't do in their real lives. I have never known *1* role player (and I've met hundreds) who say they want to roleplay to "do what I can already do". I've also know a lot of female roleplayers who want to play female characters that can pick up a sword and hit someone. If you try to put straight jackets on that option - and Vinga being the only one that didn't come with restrictions (hmm, I wonder why she is so popular with the *real* community?) what damage are you doing to Glorantha in this world?
As to the line that female soldiers in the current day are "seriously
wierd",
1. that sounds like a bit of a generalisation for me. Got any
scientifically sound evidence for it?
2. even if it is true , could it just possibly be because of the conflict
between the remnants of the passive female gender role versus the
requirements of combat. That is, is it a result of particular social
circumstances rather than an automatic result of putting women in combat?
Or is that reasoning trying to say women in combat, in any circumstance,
including everywhere in Glorantha are "seriously wierd"? Oh boy, sexist
hardly begins to cover that one.
> Yep, Vinga gets pregnant (even though Ernalda was guarding her fertility
> at the time) and because of this the Thunder Brothers lose a battle,
> according to Jeff. What a difference a woman makes.
Oh yes. The thing that struck me immediately about this one was *why* was Vinga's pregnancy such a problem? Couldn't those macho types manage without her? There's a flaw in the logic here. Either Vinga is *so* important that the Thunder Brothers don't know which end of their swords (of any type) is which without her telling them. Or they made her a scapegoat. So either she is more important than your average thinder brother or the defeat wasn't really her fault.
> No.
>
> Blame the woman.
>
> Because apparently one woman was pregnant during one of many battles that
> the Storm Tribe lost, all women from that point on will pay the
> considerable price.
>
> Well fuck me, where have I heard that type of thinking before?
Exactly
> And what exactly is all this underlying Heortling gender role crap anyway?
> Women need a dispensation from god every time they take off their aprons?
> Freedom my arse.
Orlanth has been presented as freedom. No one can make you do anything. Don't mix up Gender role in society (in terms of function) with sexual orientation. Good grief, it's an old line from conservatives years ago
"Do not give a woman a man's responsibilities for she shall develop a man's tastes".
Get over it. Sure Vinga let's women into men's societal roles, but Orlanthi sexuality is so relaxed that a man's *societal* role says nothing about a man's *sexual* role. Or a woman's societal role anything about her sexual role. Everything said about Vinga applies to Nandan. My bet is a whole lot of Nandans prefer women in their beds.
> "Those men are stupid, if they ventured further into their own gods myths,
> [they would find similar events].
>
> Couldn't have put it better myself. And on that note, I look forward to
> sharing quite a few deep, rooly deep myths of the Thunder Brothers in the
> near future. And the real truth about Big A and the ducks. Preferably with
> pictures, so you can try it at home.
Can't wait John, bring em on.
There is a Winston Churchill quote that is relevent here, except I can;t quite remember it. It's meaning is something along the lines of most men getting more conservative as they age. Worth thinking about.
Michael
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