Re: In Defence Of A Goddess

From: jorganos <joe_at_dOjXTMmDWnuJCs5rsdR6vB1HqAJGuX53JkchjP115J2c5YD8LY6poZswD5GAAg7z7kqwotbd>
Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:10:24 -0000


Peter Metcalfe

>>> Vinga is a path for warrior women, _not_ important women,

>>Strangely enough, though, the two well-documented warrior (leader)
>>women in recent Sartarite history are warrior-queens (Kallyr and
>>Leika) ruling through Orlanth kingship.

> So you reject Jeff and Greg's fucking stupid retcon that Leika
> is actually a worshipper of Redayle (who has no weapons magic
> let alone leadership magic)?

Elmal has no better archery magic than Orlanth (through Jorganos), and there were definitely no ponies in the caves of Snake Pipe Hollow, so no, I can't see Leika as pony girl. (Haven't seen her in that role, yet, either...)

To me, Redayle is a nice source for LM wives you can tag along into field research. As a martial cult, it ranges right there with Barntar and Ormalaya. Terrible if armed with horse/plow/adze...

> But the Orendanae were strong when the Feathered Horse
> Queen first appeared (KoS p227).

Yeah. Good old king sacrificing still going on (check the length of the reigns of the early Colymar kings, and remember that there were Esrolians in the tribe, too).

> Then there is Belvana
> Chan whose leadership role Jeff praises to the skies is
> something along the lines of "does whatever her
> husband thinks".

Having met Ernaldan characters like that, there is a likelihood that hubby thinks what she wants him to think.

It's Benava, btw. Belvani is the left-handed sun domer.

>>There does seem to be a role for a female chieftain able to lead the >>warband.

> You are confusing roles. Leadership of a warband is not
> the same thing as chieftanship. Women can lead the
> warband and become chiefs or queens but rarely, like
> men, do they combine those roles.

Looking at the Colymar King list, leading the warband (or expeditionary forces) appears to be what several of those kings are renowned for. It is not a necessity, but it is the mark of a strong leader.

> >Even the great marriage partners of Argrath(s) have some martial
> >aptitude (FHQ8, Inkarne),

> Fuck the FHQ, we're talking about Orlanthi.

Who did (fuck the FHQ - Sartar, Tarkalor, and Argrath). Choosing these as active wives and co-leaders for their Orlanthi followers shows that they find such female activities adequate.

Besides, Inkarne is from Holay, not Hyaloring.

>>and the best described non-healer female
>>(Entarios the Cow, Enferaldan) within the rebellion is an accomplished
>>heroquester (and will perish on the LBQ-follow-up into the nether
>>hells, fightin' an' kickin').

> Entarios the supporter would be a lot more impressive as
> a hero if she could do something else other than throw
> rug. As has been pointed out before, the Ernaldan Heroquests
> by lying in bed and let somebody else do the hard work.

All the useful myths for heroquesting involve intrigue and social interaction, be it at the Emperor's court or in Orlanth's rickety camp (when preparing the Making of the Storm Tribe). Deal with enemies so you can use them, double-deal with your opponents within your community...

Too bad no such HQs have been written. Could be fun, quite similar to normal Freeforming activities.

>>I don't quite see an Orendanan raising a tribal army, and 
>>deputizing this task to someone else is very close to handing 
>>that person tribal kingship.

> Nonsense. Bismark didn't lose any status when the demigods
> commanded the army in times of war.

Bismarck was a chancellor, not a king - a scheming rug tosser (Orventili) rather than a queen (if he had been a Heortling woman).

Unless an Orendanan has firm control over her warlord (e.g. knowing that he'll feel the sacrificial knife within a near future), letting someone else build up such a tribal power base is dangerous. So if your warlord has the Raven Banner to bear, no trouble. If he has the Wyrm-spangled Banner, trouble. End of sovereign queenship.

>>Storm Bull (unless that little detail begins to matter now, too)

> Not Storm Bull coz that's a male cult among the Heortlings.

So is Vinga, apparently ;(. (And that little detail begins to matter.)

Babeester is useful against Broos, but what about other chaos-fighting for female Heortlings?

>>Animism, or mixed communal worship, common magic and animism (like >>Griselda - who incidentally turns out to be a dyke, after all)

> If Joerg cares to stay on topic, he might recall that the subject
> is about being a warrior women within the Orlanthi religion.

If Peter would read up on the Heortlings, he might notice that there are animist practitioners in the clans. Animism is part of the Orlanthi religion. Cutting Serdodrosa and Kolat from Storm Tribe was one of the worse editorial decisions...

Heortling animists are part of the Orlanthi religion. They participate in the wyter rites and the religious festivals like all the other non-specialized initiate clan members. They are an accepted and productive part of Heortling clans, which is what all this Vinga lamentation is about.

>>Bevara, apparently with some battle- and personal self defence training

> Yes. Earsplitting Scream, Dodge All Attacks, Hide Self etc
> are just the type of magics needed to convince the skeptics
> that women are just as capable as men...

Two out of three are things any Uroxi would be happy to have.

I'll be the first to agree that this is a weak warrior's cult, but at least it has chicks familiar with weapons...            

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