Re: Terror in war

From: David Cake <dave_at_G8c3lM_d-vvv6Vr_xzHrC2tlkWL0CFzNUUCYc4CkKDPZb5axQJwRbdR5WFxiX5KH5zu492i>
Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 17:49:58 +0800

At 9:04 AM +0000 27/8/07, Jeff Richard wrote:
> > But that's the question - would she have been favoured by Orlanth and
>> Sartar if she had done these things? IMG, certainly not, although,
>> admittedly, that says little about other people's Gloranthas.
>
>If she had killed non-combatants or ordered their deaths? Orlanth
>doesn't care - as long as his laws aren't broken - witness the Kings'
>War and the Twisting during the late Gbaji Wars period. Or the deeds
>of King Dinelmal and Great King Harasaran against the Arkatings and
>their supporters. And so on. Ernalda doesn't care as long as it is
>in the long-term interest of the community (heck, Erilindia ordered
>the deaths of many and kept the support of the goddess).
>
>As long as a worshipper follows the gods' rules (no killing your own
>clanmembers, no worshiping chaos, perform the requisite sacrifices and
>attend the requisite holy day ceremonies, respect the gods in words
>and deed, etc.), the gods will support the worshiper - even if the
>worshiper is a complete bastard.

	I agree.
	Of course, I think this makes the idea that Vinga cares 

deeply about her worshippers sex lives very very suspect indeed.

>Whether it was done by Kallyr's hands or by others, I think it goes
>without saying that the rebellion in Sartar from 1617-1625 was a
>ruthless and vicious affair. Then again, it was fought against a foe
>that used demons and the undead, that eliminated entire tribes and
>clans, and ultimately used something akin to genocide (the
>Fimbulwinter) to destroy an entire culture and people.

        The Fimbulwinter is a terrible thing. I think the idea that Kallyrs contribution is to try as hard as she can to make it harder for people for political gain is silly.

> War is a
>dialectic - Kallyr and the Sartarites respond to Lunar atrocities with
>their own bold audacious strikes, which lead to Lunar responses in
>turn, and so on.

        The Lunars, however, combined these tactics with mercy when appropriate, aid when appropriate, and appearing reasonable and offering the hand of friendship. I don't think Kallyr would have succeeded if all she had to offer was threats.

        Will there be vicious extremists on Kallyrs side? Yes, sure. And she is going to distance herself from their direct actions (whether or not she covertly agrees with them), and repudiate them (with violence if need be) when she has to.

>This isn't making Kallyr out to be a villain, but I think people ought
>to think seriously about the sort of leader she is likely to be. She
>is not a peacemaker, a justicebringer or a demogogue. She is a
>warleader, a ruthless avenger, and a determined liberator of the house
>of Sartar - a bright light during a time of seemingly endless Darkness.

        I agree that she is a ruthless and effective warleader who does what she thinks is necessary to win. I happen to think she is smart enough to realise that hearts and minds is part of winning.

        I disagree that she doesn't even try to be a peacemaker, a justicebringer or a demagogue, even though she isn't very good at those things. She wants to be a true heir to the house of Sartar, and a true Orlanthi King. She wants to be admired by the best of the clan chiefs, not by the Storm Bulls.

        And perhaps more importantly, she wants to be able to move her household and troops around without every clans lands she moves through being full of people who hate her and think Sartar would be better off without her.

	Cheers
		David