Gedday Tom
Welcome to the group. You'll pick up how it doesn't operate fairly quickly.
> Having been filibustered (again) on World of Glorantha I'd like to
> reply here, if that's alright:
Well the mods need to get their fun too.
> --- In WorldofGlorantha_at_yahoogroups.com, "valkoharja" <rintasaa@>
> wrote:
> >
I don't think Adept is active on this group, it takes up all his time providing endless commentary on the WOG group. Though he could be one of the many who peek here but never post.
> > > The society I live in is turning into a hellhole, the reason
> > > partially to do with the absolute decimation of masculine ceremony,
> > > story and roles.
And equally, one of the reasons society is improving is because we are overturning historically-bound and outdated models of ubermasculinist testeria.
> England 2007, once proud nation now shit-hole of Europe.
I though that was France...
>
> Yeah great I'm happy for you and that's the main reason that in
> England we have streets filled with feral children, precisely because
> we don't have an egalitarian society.
If I'm following this 'masculinist ceremony' (undefined) = egalitarian society = homes for liddle kiddies. That right?
Hands up anyone who follows this logic...
> Which is exactly the language used to attack Joseph Campbell that male
> initiation rites are misogynistic. In my post I also mentioned a
> feminist writer who uses the same post Jungian, Campbellian style
> interpretation but you ignored that.
In fairness, having had an ongoing love-hate relationship with Uncle Jo and his Universal Solvent for a quarter of a century now, I not sure which of his generalisations you're referring to. Can you provide a reference? I'm not particularly wanting to start a flame war (which by the way, is one of the most valuable functions of this group), but I don't understand what you're referring to. Campbell gets lumped in with all sorts of New Age crap, basically because that's what he's spouting. And Pinkola Estes is a Jungian, not a Campbellian (and equally important, a cantadora). I hope you appreciate the difference.
> What I am talking about is absent, jobless fathers. Parents who behave
> like children unable to teach their sons when it is right to show
> anger and when it isn't. This is at least partially to do with an
> absence of decent jobs, equality, education and rites of passage that
> teach young boys how to become decent men in touch with themselves and
> the society they live in.
I understand and sympathize. When did UK society ever not have absent jobless fathers? Given that most of the working class only had access to higher education after WW2, how do you fit this into your schema? And most importantly, what ceremonies do you think could restore this? Anglican antics? Masonic manipulations? Footy and cold showers? Wild & wanton weekends in Chipping Sodbury? Or chucking spears at Solstice on Salsbury Plain?
> > Hell, sign me up for Esrolia if the alternative is any return to even
> > more macho attitudes.
Its great to see this being considered.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an anthropologist and a symbolist, and my wife is a Wiccan of a decidedly non-fluffy incarnation. We need ceremonies, we need myths, and we need to critically assess both. But ceremony does not automatically mean uncritically recreating historically bound notions and selfhoods. We need to weave our own meanings.
> Me too (without the testicle flinging).
If I had one, I'd fling it.
DimJim
Powered by hypermail