> One handy trick is this: If the talking fox shows up
> insisting that you don't clear any land, agree. Then
> immediately (or quite soon), call in favor or two then
> attack whipping-boy clan as hard as you can (blow
> magic points, use treasure), with the objective to
> sieze some of their land. A lot of that will be
> fields and pasture land, so suddenly you have more
> than enough land to not clear any for five years. You
> can also use this if you absorb another clan and
> suddenly need lots more space.
I usually aim for a stable population early in the game of about 1,000 - at that point, adding new land ceases to be a problem unless you get an earthquake. Serious war or other calumnities can seriously deplete your population to the point that it makes sense to scale back on your farming - or just invite newcomers, which is my preferred method.
> As an aside, I've never had my ancestors get mad at me
> for making peace with an enemy. Are you sure you
> didn't do something friendly towards your true
> ancestral enemy by accident that annoyed them? If it
> was for making peace from the feud, I'd love to know
> more about what the ancestors complained about.
Same here. I've had ancestors appear complaining that we've broken from the old ways, but never gave a reason; I've also had them appear to say that the chieftain spoke specious truisms and they couldn't take it any more. At that point, I seriously (if briefly) considered capturing them to use as spirit fetches.
> I've been playing this game for about a year now, and
> I have yet to even have a chance to buy it!
> Grrrr....*must*keep*playing*
>
> By the way, how many treasures do other people usually
> end up with by the end of short or long game? I have
> the sneeking suspicion that I'm not chasing treasures
> as hard as I'm "supposed" to, but I'd like a point of
> comparison.
By the time I create a tribe, I usually have...say, a dozen. By the time I finish the game (long version), I usually have two dozen plus. Keep in mind that I prefer to delay forming a tribe until I have several treasures - including at least one to throw away, such as the kind you can endlessly get from hero-quests.
Buying treasures takes a long time, because sending someone out to buy (or trade) treasures doesn't guarantee you'll get one, and you may not want the treasure in the first place. I usually try to send out one a year to other clans, one at a time, to see what they have. When I find one worth buying - which can take several years - I'll make an offer of about 50 goods. If that fails, I'll usually try 80, 100, 120, or 150, depending on how much it's worth to me. Often, such as in the case of the First Arrow or Eurmal's Balls, I'll decide it just isn't worth having. Why? Because there's a limit to how many treasures you can have before other clans refuse to sell you any more - they'll sell spirit fetches instead.
Note that they don't care how many you buy FROM them, just how many you own. So in my eyes, this means it's best to buy as many of the good ones as possible from them in the beginning, BEFORE you hero quest for treasures or find them while exploring or in random events. (In my most recent game, I alternately was very happy and very annoyed that I got four treasures in the first three years of the game).
> (Another is the Shifting
> > Statue, and the Scarf of the
> > >Seven Somethings, and Ernalda's Oven)
>
> Ernalda's oven? Isn't that the one that saves on food
> by making some loaves from almost no grain? Why is
> this one so valuable? (At least in my games, after
> the first few years food is usually the one thing we
> have more than enough of)
Two reasons. One is that my strategy is to have a clan big enough to be powerful while small enough to not ask to be split up - and that means food can sometimes get low, although after the first few years you have basically no chance of starvation. So a little economy is a good thing. The second reason is that you can use food to trade - or, as my preferred vehicle, to give as gifts. 60 food gets the same effect as 30 goods or cows, and it's a lot cheaper. If you're buying horses, goods, or cows, it's always good to have at least two things to sell - the most you'll get is when you trade for 2 things and sell 2 things, and having enough food to sell 100 grain at a pop without flinching helps.
If you're up to the wazoo in grain, you don't need it. I suppose I like it as a security blanket - and honestly, it's worth a lot more than many of them in the game. The First Arrow is virtually useless as my hunters never produce much and are usually pushed out by farmers anyways, and several of the items seem suspiciously attuned to different deities that aren't represented on my ring.
> Ack, the one time I took the Praxians as my ancient
> enemy they hit us hard twice early in the game and all
> but wiped us off the map! Perhaps I should try them
> again, and focus more of our early resourced on
> building fortifications.....there is little worse than
> not having built anything but a watchtower, then
> having the praxians evade your patrols and maul you,
> and then have the horse nomads hit right afterwards
> before you've recovered.
I've never had a problem with them; although they can be hard to stop, they don't come very often - I've won long games with them appearing less than a dozen times. It sounds like you had a spot of bad luck.
> As to the winter and sea as enemies, they both have
> hidden benefits. The floods are very damaging, true,
> but if you are generous to your neighbours it does
> wonders for your relations with them (and if your
> agriculture is good the flood damage isn't so lethal
> after the first few years).
That's interesting - I suppose it's because they feel pity for you?
> And with the winter as
> your enemy you have the chance of raiding during dark
> season (and you very often evade patrols, and you get
> magic if it succeeds), as well as you can gain magic
> from killing the ice demons. With the winter as my
> enemy, summons of evil is almost my stock preparation
> for heroquests, since the extra few magic points can
> help immensely.
Huh - interesting. I may have to try one of these two in the future. I hadn't known that.
> I've gotten them into the tribe once, and sort of into
> it a couple of times (one of those cool detail bits in
> the game--one particular clan, if it is in your tribe,
> will change how this event plays out. Pretty cool,
> eh?)
Quite. Actually, I've already discovered which clans I simply can't get into my tribe, no matter how generous I am to them before the tribe-making dance begins or how generous I am during it - I just can't countenance what they ask for without causing friction in the tribe later.
What bothered me was that I managed, in a stroke of generosity, long-term planning and diplomacy, to get the clan into my tribe that asks for the chance to host the negotiations, to build the tribe meeting hall, and to build the taverns on everybody's land - but I managed to get them to join WITHOUT giving them taverns on other tulas. A few years later, the tavern they had build on my land had caused so much friction that my farmers burned it down. Say what? I never agreed to this!
I really wish there was more emphasis on the tribe politics - I'd love to know exactly what your tribe-members are agreeing to when they negotiate into the tribe, and I'd love to see more disputes and other politics. Knowing how many there are on the tribe ring would be nice, too.
> In my experience you lose a weaponthane....and at
> least a third of the time (possibly as high as a
> half), none of the weaponthanes will carry it, and you
> either have to sacrifice a ring member or not use it
> after all. This can be worthwile when you have an
> elder on the ring that you were thinking of replacing
> soon (OK, highly cynical, but worthwile all the same).
> I think it may hit your weaponthane morale too. I
> don't like using the banner, but I fear anyone else
> having it, so we frequently either trade it away
> during the Issaries quest, or contribute it to the
> tribal regalia.
On a related note, does anybody know what the tribal regalia DOES? I've been wary of giving up my nicest treasures, so I usually give 'replaceable' ones such as the clay cow, then don't even try to win the kingship so that I can more easily convince the other tribes to give of their own treasures - usually nets the tribe 5 or 6.
Dave
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