From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest-Rules-Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest-Rules-Digest V1 #4 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest-Rules-Digest Sunday, January 25 1998 Volume 01 : Number 004 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Vows [RQ-RULES] Thanks, Spells, Darts, Systems, Art Vows Re: [RQ-RULES] Vows Re: [RQ-RULES] Thanks, Spells, Darts, Systems, Art Vows Re: [RQ-RULES] Vows Re: [RQ-RULES] Vows [RQ-RULES] Dodge Re: [RQ-RULES] Dodge Re: [RQ-RULES] Dodge [RQ-RULES] Re: Art Vows & quick bio RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 18:37:27 -0000 From: "Daren Clark" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Vows When I read Sandy's rules I thought that it was a good system for a those sorcerers who obtain their abilities through devotion to a religious doctrine, but was not flexible enough for the type that I like to think also exists in Glorantha, or should I say does exist in my Glorantha. This is the type of sorcerer that I have encountered in Glorantha, the type with an insatiable appetite for knowledge, who delves into the hidden secrets and seeks understanding. In my view it is this very type who will not shackle themselves to a strict way of life, for in so doing they may cut themselves off from a whole range of knowledge. Now, I have no problem with making it easier for the religious sorcerers to gain their restricted abilities and knowledge related to their churches teachings by taking vows to better emulate those saints who have gone before, or to make them better citizens of the church. No, what I dislike is the fact (as I understood Sandy's rules) that there is no other way than through these vows to become a great sorcerer. Give the lone seeker of knowledge and power a way of gaining that knowledge and power without forcing upon him/her a way of life which does not fit in with that desire for knowledge. I know, there are certain vows that can still be rationalised with this, for example the strange fellow in his study reading ancient tomes by candle light, hardly stopping to eat can equate to the recluse vow, the deteriorating sight vow and the sitting around on your arse and not eating properly vow. The point however, is what about when the fellow decides that its time to get out into the world and find some more tomes to study. So he goes off, he eats a bit better because he is a member of a group who can hunt and he doesn't have anything to read (there goes one vow). He is out and about getting some fresh air and interacting with others (there goes another). Ok, so he is still short sighted, but perhaps he hasn't stopped that ;-). Are you telling me that this fellow who is off seeking more knowledge has just dropped a significant amount of ability simply in fulfilling his desire for knowledge. Make it harder for these people, make it take longer and the rewards come slower, perhaps increase the dangers involved in their meddling with things they do not understand. The increasing chance of physical or psychological disorders or perhaps Illumination even, can be linked to the accumulation of knowledge and or ability. This would fit nicely with Sandy's rules as are, for those who follow the ways of a church are protected from the dangers of melding in 'the bad stuff' by following the doctrines and taking vows upon themselves to be better members of society. Now I need to go catch up on some sleep. Cheers Daren Clark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:10:07 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Thanks, Spells, Darts, Systems, Art Vows Well, it seems I was premature in thinking that the Rules List was devoid of life. Thanks to Tal Meta a) for the list, and b) for sorting out my posts for me. +------------------------------------------------------------+ >1) Is there a single spell 'Summon Spell Spirit' >2) How do Shamen learn spells? Do they: It is rather time-consuming for a shaman to learn spells, by the book. He either summons a random spell spirit and gets a random spell (I use the ancestor summoning table), or goes to the spirit plane and keeps looking until he finds something he likes. I used to think the system was bad because it took the shaman so long to get new spells, and was so random and dangerous. However, I now think it's bad because it takes the *player* and *referee* so long. Shamans are the easiest way to get a really powerful character, it is nearly impossible to generate a priest by the book, or an adept sorceror. The price you pay is in getting new spells, and being bothered by random spirits, if the referee ever remembers. +------------------------------------------------------------+ >some variant of (P Hibb's(?)) Dart War scenario Um ... I write it P Hibbs' as the apostraphe after the s indicating posessive is normal for a name ending with an s, but I never wrote any Dart War scenario. Anyone else want to own up to it? +------------------------------------------------------------+ >> So, how does everyone else feel about following a dead system? >It seems to be a habit of mine. >Even the odd game of D&D we still play uses 1st Ed. rules, Us too. There's a group of about 5 of us that meet in London four or five times a year, we mostly play RQ3, RQ4 and AD&D ver 1. +------------------------------------------------------------+ >I see multiple powergaming opportunities by >greedy PCs and NPCs. Any comments? Um - I hadn't spotted that one, although it also says that he loses 10% from all spells, but it might be worth it... philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/phibbs +--------------+ | Philip Hibbs +---------------------------------------------+ | What immortal hand or eye dare frame thy perfect symmetry? | +------------------------------------------------------------+ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:31:29 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Vows Daren Clark wrote: > > When I read Sandy's rules I thought that it was a good system for a those > sorcerers who obtain their abilities through devotion to a religious > doctrine, but was not flexible enough for the type that I like to think also > exists in Glorantha, or should I say does exist in my Glorantha. Have you looked at the Pattulo/Hibbs' Eastern Sorcery rules, or at Chris Bell's Low Magic? Both offer alternative methods of gaining Presence. > This is the type of sorcerer that I have encountered in Glorantha, the type > with an insatiable appetite for knowledge, who delves into the hidden > secrets and seeks understanding. In my view it is this very type who will > not shackle themselves to a strict way of life, for in so doing they may cut > themselves off from a whole range of knowledge. Sounds a lot like the Journeys in the Eastern Sorcery rules to me. > Give the lone seeker of knowledge and power a way of gaining that knowledge > and power without forcing upon him/her a way of life which does not fit in > with that desire for knowledge. Maybe a set of 'Pact' rules should be drawn up, wherein the sorcerer, instead of making Vows between himself and (insert deity/philosophy), he makes a series of pacts with creatures of the otherworld (not necessarily demons, mind you) in order to achive his Presence. Perhaps by teaching a powerful magic spirit a spell it does not know, he gains a certain amount of Presence, or by pledging to support a certain shrine, he gains something else? (Thinks to self, hums...) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 14:53:42 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Thanks, Spells, Darts, Systems, Art Vows Hibbs, Philip wrote: > > Well, it seems I was premature in thinking that the Rules List was > devoid of life. Thanks to Tal Meta a) for the list, and b) for sorting > out my posts for me. Not a problem. The problem would have come from somewhere, eventually. :) > price you pay is in getting new spells, and being bothered by random > spirits, if the referee ever remembers. Guilty as charged. Our party's shaman had something come at him out of the spirit plane maybe once every other week, when I remembered that it'd been "how long?!" since I'd remembered to roll for it last? Of course, the shaman had a true knack for fumbling Summon rolls, too, so it evened out. > >some variant of (P Hibb's(?)) Dart War scenario > > Um ... I write it P Hibbs' as the apostraphe after the s indicating > posessive is normal for a name ending with an s, but I never wrote any > Dart War scenario. Anyone else want to own up to it? Sorry about that. The bottom of the file I have says updated by pH, and gives a web address in the UK; it doesn't list the name of the author (and I can't remember the page I grabbed it from). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 19:52:36 -0000 From: "Daren Clark" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Vows Tal Meta >Have you looked at the Pattulo/Hibbs' Eastern Sorcery rules, or at Chris >Bell's Low Magic? Both offer alternative methods of gaining Presence. Nope, can anyone point me towards them? Thanks Daren Clark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 15:25:26 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Vows Daren Clark wrote: > >Have you looked at the Pattulo/Hibbs' Eastern Sorcery rules, or > >at Chris Bell's Low Magic? Both offer alternative methods of > >gaining Presence. > > Nope, can anyone point me towards them? The Eastern (Pagan) Sorcery can be found at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/PHibbs/eastsorc.htm Chris Bell's Low Magic can be found at: http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~janewill/gloranth/rules/rqlowmagic.htm Hope this helps ya. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 16:00:39 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Maranci Subject: [RQ-RULES] Dodge I seem to have missed out on the first volume of the Digest -- did anyone else get a copy? Maybe a quick self-intro would be a good idea: I've been playing RQ (2, then RQ3), for about fifteen years. GMing RQ for about the same period. I've gone back to Glorantha every year or two, but use RQ for many non-Gloranthan campaigns, too. I was a playtester for RQ:AIG. I edit and publish the Interregnum amateur press association, which usually features at least some RQ content. I'm an associate editor for Tradetalk, the magazine of the international Chaos Society. I publish a page of RQ scenarios and alternate rules on the web. I'm a refugee from the scholars of the Gloranthan Digest. The reason: I'm firmly on the side of fun rather than painstaking detail in roleplaying, and if pressed I prefer RQ to Glorantha. :-) Anyway, a friend and I have been working out new RQ4 rules for ourselves, with the goal of creating a complete unpublishable system. One of the first rules we've adopted is an old house rule, which almost everyone I know uses: an altered Dodge. As the rules stand, a critical Dodge is required in order to avoid a critical hit. If the unlucky victim rolls only a normal or special Dodge, they are hit with the full, devastating force of a critical. Under the alternate rule, success is considered in "levels". A normal Dodge reduces a normal hit to a miss. It reduces a special hit to a normal hit, and reduces a critical hit to a special. A special Dodge reduces the opposing success by two levels; a normal or special hit becomes a miss, and a critical becomes a normal hit. Likewise, a critical reduces the opponent's success by three levels, avoiding even a critical hit. We considered allowing a critical Dodge to convert a failed attack roll into a fumble, but decided that that would be too powerful. Perhaps a Heroic Dodge would have that effect. Another random point: does anyone remember the Critical Impale from RQ2? I'm not sure that this was even in the alternate rules in the back of the book, but my old group had a rule that on a critical success, a second percentile roll was made. If that roll was a special or better, the attack was a critical success and did truly devastating damage -- something like double damage *and* ignoring all armor. A third and last point: I seem to recall that attack skills over 100% could be used to reduce an opponent's chance to parry -- i.e., an attacker with a skill of 120% could effectively reduce the opponent's parry skill by 20%, attacking as if they had a weapon skill of 100%. Seems to me that this would speed up combats between highly-skilled warriors, though it might mean too much bookkeeping. -->Pete - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Maranci pmaranci@tiac.net Malden, MA Editor, Interregnum RPG/Science Fiction APA/magazine -- email for info. Interregnum WWW home page: http://www.tiac.net/users/maranci/index.html FRP adventures, art and more: http://www.tiac.net/users/maranci/rq.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:11:52 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Dodge Peter Maranci wrote: > Maybe a quick self-intro would be a good idea: Not a bad idea. Here's mine. Began roleplaying in 1983, when a dorm-mate got a copy of some Other Game System for Xmas. Spent several more years playing DMing that, until someone loaned me a copy of the 1st Edition Stormbringer rules. A comment in that book, comparing a Young Kingdom's sorcerer to one from Glorantha, led me to hunt down the RQ3 system, and I was hooked. I've mostly used home-brewed worlds for my RPGing, borrowing liberally from other sources when necessary. Selar, my particular game world, has evolved several times, picking up new cultures and whatnot as my library of games and novels grows. At a rough estimate, my RPG library weighs several hundred pounds, and if I could sell it for cover prices, would support me and my family for about two years . Off the internet, I've run a variety of FidoNet-type networks, most recently RPGNet, between varying careers in the building supplies and child management fields . I'm also a staff member for Monmouth University's MonCon, to be held April 4th - 5th of this year, which will have at least 1 RQ event. While the GD gets rather too esoteric for me now and again, it's an excellent source of information. But it was never meant to be about RULES, which is why I set about bringing this list back to life. I just finished a six-month RQ campaign back in Dec., so I once again have the time to nitpick the rules outside of the gaming table. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 22:21:33 EST From: JULIAKIR Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Dodge In a message dated 98-01-23 16:12:44 EST, you write: << runequest-rules@mpgn.com >> We use a very similar system for Dodge in our campaing. In addition I use a similar system for shaft on shaft parries. For example, a character parring a spear attack with a spear or a mace. This seems a bit more realistic then parring with the armorpoints of a spear, since the attack is essencially knocked aside. Leon Kirshtein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 1998 10:04:47 -0800 (PST) From: Erik Nolander Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Art Vows & quick bio Hi All, Me: > >I see multiple powergaming opportunities by > >greedy PCs and NPCs. Any comments? Philip Hibbs: > Um - I hadn't spotted that one, although it also says that he loses 10% > from all spells, but it might be worth it... Yeah, you're right, I simply forgot about the 10% reduction. Still, as you comment, it might just be worth it. After all, 10 percentiles ain't that big a loss for the average sorceror. Tal Meta: >I'd probably use a union of >the three, costing him tha Art, Presence equal to what he would have >gained if he'd taken the Vow normally, AND 10% from all his spell skills. This really gives a reason for the character _not_ to break his Vows. I like it! Still, I find the "How-to-Gain-Arts"-system a weak part of the otherwise wellwritten rules, but since I don't have a better alternative as of today, I'll leave it at that. Oh, BTW, a quick "biography": I started playing RPG's around 1982, first in Swedish but later switching to English with The Other Game :). I discovered Glorantha about 1987 with RQ3, but then I took a pause with my role-playing which lasted until summer '96. Now I'm in the process of starting up two Glorantha-campaigns, mostly with RQ-beginners. Cheers, Erik Nolander _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest-Rules-Digest V1 #4 *********************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.