From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest-Rules-Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest-Rules-Digest V1 #41 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest-Rules-Digest Friday, March 13 1998 Volume 01 : Number 041 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: NPC RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars [RQ-RULES] The Temple of Heads Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: NPC [RQ-RULES] Pow Gains Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: NPC RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:12:26 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars >Bob Stancliff: >>Even the cults that only Worship once a season would give >>the casting priest five checks per year instead of the one >>listed in the character creation rules. > >Priests get 1 POW per year to keep afterwards, I'm sure they get more >than that, but have to use it for religious duties, such as healing, >warding, making enchantments, etc. My RQ group are shameless >powergamers, and would abuse the rules to destruction, but they >generally respect my authority when I say "No, you just can't". I give 1POW to the priest leading the ceremony, if he succeeds in his Ceremony roll, on the cults high holy day, which is once per year, and a power gain roll of 1d3-1 for every other cult member present. The big distinction between giving a check or not, IMW, is if the situation is considered to be stressful. In other words, will failure to do something matter to the character. Therefore, an attempt to increase power by summoning and releasing Pow spirits will always fail since there is no risk envolved, IMO. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:26:47 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: NPC >> For this to be of the most use to the most people, we need to decide where to draw the lines. > Important point, I would want to use my house rules, you would >wantto use yours. It is safer if we restrict ourselves to RQ3(probably with the erata sheet), and nothing else. How about RQ3(no errata please, I think it made things worse)with Sandy's Sorcery rules (much better than RQ3 and available to all on the internet). > >RU>I think a balanced mean between the two is best, actually. > If the level of a character is fairly definite, it is possible to >design to a low-medium target and GM's who play high-experience >campaigns can beef them up. Total agreement here. >RU>(For those who missed it, among other things, it was suggested that >RU>Uleria priest(esses)(!) give marriage counselling, sexual "coaching", >RU>advice on how to find/romance a prospective mate, etc.. They don't HAVE >RU>to be erotocomotose lucidity crazy, afterall!) > All of this is perfectly correct. For about two years I have >described Ulerians as a cross between Japanese Geisha and Renaisance >Courtesans; highly skilled in music, language, dance, conversation, and pleasure. Their goal is individual harmony and peace. > The write-ups say that their temples are divided into three parts; >Social pleasure, Personal pleasure, and Family pleasure. IMG, if >sufficient water is available, the Uleria temple will be the site of a >public bath, as a function of Social pleasure. >Bob Stancliff This is all true, but Uleria!? Maybe not the first time. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:24:12 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars RU>>Even the cults that only Worship once a season would give RU>>the casting priest five checks per year instead of the one RU>>listed in the character creation rules. Bob Stancliff RU>Priests get 1 POW per year to keep afterwards, I'm sure they get more RU>than that, but have to use it for religious duties, such as healing, RU>warding, making enchantments, etc. If you are a High Priest keeping your Pow above 16 (for example), then with five checks a year you probably will make one. I have tried to modify the character creation rules to let NPC's look more like PC's. They still lag behind, but most of the NPC's don't want to be heroes. By analysis, I have realized that everyone over the age of 25 is a master of at least one skill they use nearly every day unless they are trying to study everything. Most of these people aren't chosen for cult advancement due to reasons like lack of piety, weak will, poor health, low Int, etc., in spite of their being masters (or even multiple masters)! Those who are Most fortunate are brought into the priesthood. We shouldn't be too easy on PC's, they must compensate for their youth with incredible deeds and regular devotion. Sorry that was general rambling, not directed critique. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 15:27:10 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars Leon: >I give 1POW to the priest leading the ceremony, if he succeeds in >his Ceremony roll, on the cults high holy day, which is once per >year, and power gain roll for every other cult member present. The way I understood it was the worshippers all give up a load of MPs, and the worship ceremony converts this into POW for the god, one point of which goes to the priest. The worshippers don't gain anything, apart from spiritual reassurance. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/phibbs +--------------+ | Philip Hibbs +---------------------------------------------+ | What immortal hand or eye dare frame thy perfect symmetry? | +------------------------------------------------------------+ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 10:39:06 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars RU>Leon Kirshtein RU>I give 1POW to the priest leading the ceremony, if he succeeds in his RU>Ceremony roll, on the cults high holy day, which is once per year, and a RU>power gain roll of 1d3-1 for every other cult member present. If I recall, the rules give a point of Pow to the person casting Worship on HHD (no roll), the other priests and initiates get a roll. On a normal Holy day, the casting priest gets a roll, but not anyone else. RU>The big distinction between giving a check or not, IMW, is if the RU>situation is considered to be stressful. In other words, will failure RU>to do something matter to the character. Therefore, an attempt to RU>increase power by summoning and releasing Pow spirits will always fail RU>since there is no risk envolved, IMO. I try to enforce the same rule, but there is loss involved if the spirit is big enough to be able to win. The PC risks possession and the monetary loss of exorcism by a shaman or healing spirit. Fighting a ghost is even more risky since posession can mean death or the ghost trying to keep the body. The entire discussion above shows that Pow checks can be gained out of normal combat. The Dorastor book claims that the Telmori shamen regularly summon spirits to raise their Pow so that they can enchant their followers. This can definitely hold risk for a normal character, but a shaman with a decent size fetch would be hard pressed to lose unless they bring in something hugh. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:45:04 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars >RU>I do not think that you have to maintain that Dominate for the rest of >RU>the familiar's life. I belive the link created in the spell takes care >RU>of it. Otherwise spirits or helions would never stick around with the >RU>sorceror. IMO familiars once created do not have free will and are >RU>slaves to the sorceror. I do not belive they can in any form do, or >RU>even think about, harming their master. >Sorry Leon, > This opinion is a direct contradiction of the rules on the Free-Will >retained by familiars. These rules provide atmosphere and restrict the >sorcerer by making him consider his moral stand in the world. They draw >on the same real world stories, so they are similar to D&D and other >games. You can release the rule constraint in your house rules, at the >cost of allowing Power Gamers to abuse the system even more than normal. > You are telling a Good sorcerer that it is OK to have a powerful Evil >familiar because it is his Slave. This logic is definitely the dark >side of Nysalor. Take the second point, first. The act of MAKING a powerful Evil familiar is Evil and therefore owning it is Evil it does not matter if it is a slave or a servant. The major point of this as I see it - "Does a familiar have Free-Will?"; and specifically is there a basic difference in this depending on where the familiar came from. IMO the answer is no. The familiar retains a portion of its personality, or aquires one if it did not have one before. In all other respects it is an extention of the sorceror. It will act in what it belives to be the sorceror's best interests if the sorceror is not around and at times its personality may come into effect in things which it does. Will continue on this thread later on today as I am about to turn into a pumkin (back to work). Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:01:40 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] The Temple of Heads stancliff@commnections.com wrote: > Important point, I would want to use my house rules, you would > want to use yours. It is safer if we restrict ourselves to RQ3 > (probably with the erata sheet), and nothing else. As I believe Leon suggested, Sandy's Sorcery is freely available, and is far less broken than the system presented in RQ3. If that's aceptable to enough people, I'm willing to fly with it. > If the level of a character is fairly definite, it is possible > to design to a low-medium target and GM's who play high-experience > campaigns can beef them up. Agreed. No need to create foes for Gunda the Guilty, then. :) Nikk Effingham wrote: > I vote for the Temple of Heads in Dorastor!!! All those wonderful > Thanatari running around weilding unheard of and arcane powers.... > what more could you ask for? I have no objections to this... anyone else in favor? (Maybe we'll toss in a liche, for good measure ). If nobody else is interested, I might even fire up CC and crank out a prospective map of the place. (Or is there a map in Doraster? Or at least something that gives an idea of the extent of the complex? (Someone will have to post the .jpg map on their website, for ease of access, I'd imagine.) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:12:24 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: NPC RU>Leon Kirshtein RU>How about RQ3(no errata please, I think it made things worse)with RU>Sandy's Sorcery rules (much better than RQ3 and available to all on the RU>internet). I personally refuse to run a Western campaign, and I don't appreciate what I have seen of Sandy's rules. I never thought the RQ3 rules were broken, but I finally decided the RQ4 rules were a good idea. In my game I will never allow a Medieval European culture, it is too big a clash with the Lunar style of an early iron age Roman Empire (which is described as the most dynamic culture in Glorantha). When I refer to the west at all it is as a Persian culture, very early Islamic: "there is no god but the Invisible God, and Malkion is his prophet". Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 08:20:57 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Pow Gains >I try to enforce the same rule, but there is loss involved if the spirit is big enough to be able to win. The PC risks possession and the monetary loss of exorcism by a shaman or healing spirit. Fighting a ghost is even more risky since posession can mean death or the ghost trying to keep the body. The entire discussion above shows that Pow checks can be gained out of normal combat. If the character is willing to take these kinds of risks, then give them the power checks. But I don't want anyone crying then things go wrong. > The Dorastor book claims that the Telmori shamen regularly summon spirits to raise their Pow so that they can enchant their followers. This can definitely hold risk for a normal character, but a shaman with a decent size fetch would be hard pressed to lose unless they bring in something hugh. I give a power check to a character (outside of combat) if he succeds in overcoming the power of a spirit and at the time the spirits Pow is greater than or equal to that of a character. This, mostly, means that power spirits (with an average POW of 10)are not worthy of a power gain roll. Since this is a rule I use for game balance I have no problem of applying or not applying it to NPCs. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:20:36 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars RU>Leon Kirshtein RU>IMO the answer is no. The familiar retains a portion of its RU>personality, or aquires one if it did not have one before. In all other RU>respects it is an extention of the sorceror. It will act in what it RU>belives to be the sorceror's best interests if the sorceror is not RU>around and at times its personality may come into effect in things which RU>it does. For a second opinion, check the two familiars in "Strangers in Prax", especially Nailhead. The writer stresses the individuality of the familiar and that it does pretty much what it wants unless given a direct order. This is why a sorcerer is supposed to be a friend of the familiar before casting the spell, so that it Will not (not Can not) betray him. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:32:43 EST From: Delecti Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Familiars Bob writes: << I have had to set limits on POW training by fighting spirits smaller than the character. >> A good rule of thumb is to not allow POW increases for checks in which the checker had a 90+% chance of winning, it being to easy and not enough strain on them. Also the same can go for simple skill checks where the skill is 75+% it is too routine. I rule familiars are not slaves and have a character all thier own (which is a good reason to take the time to notice all your familiar-to-be's quirks. Turning a herd man you bought from unreputable slavers and into a familiar may end you up with an unlucky ogre priest of cacodemon! Delecti, Lord of the Upland Marsh aka Scott Knowles, USA Coordinator for The Chaos Society http://members.aol.com/delecti/UpMarsh.html Delecti@aol.com http://members.aol.com/Glorantha/chaossoc.html ChaosSociety@juno.com "What if life actually *was* fair, and we somehow deserved all the truly awful things that happened to us?" -- Marcus Cole, Babylon 5 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 11:32:47 EST From: Delecti Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: NPC << Important point, I would want to use my house rules, you would want to use yours. It is safer if we restrict ourselves to RQ3 (probably with the erata sheet), and nothing else. >> Well, if you want to be real energetic, you could put in the basr RQ3 plus the conversion to your rules (as well as where to look them up) in it also. That way we can see how it works somewhat. Delecti, Lord of the Upland Marsh aka Scott Knowles, USA Coordinator for The Chaos Society http://members.aol.com/delecti/UpMarsh.html Delecti@aol.com http://members.aol.com/Glorantha/chaossoc.html ChaosSociety@juno.com "What if life actually *was* fair, and we somehow deserved all the truly awful things that happened to us?" -- Marcus Cole, Babylon 5 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest-Rules-Digest V1 #41 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. 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