From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #68 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, April 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 068 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] RE: Administrivia [RQ-RULES] RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit RE: [RQ-RULES] RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts [RQ-RULES] RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns Re: [RQ-RULES] New Sorcery Art. RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts RE: [RQ-RULES] RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit Re: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 17:51:12 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: [RQ-RULES] RE: Administrivia I agree with removing the [RQ-RULES] from the subject line, but I'm not bothered about the Unsubscribe info, it's quite short anyway. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/phibbs A single death is a tragedy a million deaths are a statistic Josef Stalin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 10:20:59 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: [RQ-RULES] RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit >RU> But the main reason for this change was to give a better interest to >RU> have a MP matrix enchantment instead of a Power Spirit (or other) >RU> Binding Enchantment. I always thought that with RQ3 rules, the second >RU> first one was a bit useless compared to the second one ? > I saw someone argue that MP Matrices are a Gods Learner trick to >replace MP Crystals. This was stated by G.S. > In some cultures, MP Matrix Enchant may be easier to find than >Binding Enchant, Summon Pow Spirit and Control Pow Spirit. These people >would use the simple method even though it is not quite as good. I see no reason as to why sorcerers can not summon a spirit and then Dominate them into a binding matrix. That I would like to find out is how people play bound spirits. For example do you allow a player to give his power spirit to another player to use? Do you play what the spirit is released if its magic points go down to zero? Is the spirit released then the owner dies? Etc. Leon kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 18:26:34 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit >I see no reason as to why sorcerers can not summon a spirit and >then Dominate them into a binding matrix. I guess it's the same reason they can't join cults and sacrifice for divine magic. They can, but they have religious objections to doing it. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/phibbs A single death is a tragedy a million deaths are a statistic Josef Stalin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:06:56 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns RU>The thing which you have to consider is: What do you enjoy and what your RU>players enjoy. All else is secondary. There is no 'right way to play'. RU>There is only play and no play. RU>Leon Kirshtein I only play RQ so that I can play Glorantha, these discussions matter so far as the rules define the world, so it does matter to me. Otherwise I would play Champions. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) "Breath in, breath out... very important" Karate Kid 1 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:15:29 EDT From: David Weihe Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts > From: stancliff@commnections.com > RU>game worlds where evil sorts will kill you on Tuesday, bind your ghost > RU>into their rug on Wednesday, and spend all day Thursday marching back > RU>and forth on that rug with hob-nail boots, because you died before they > RU>were finished making you suffer. > The power gamer in my game had a bad habit of trying to do these > things, and I occasionally had to let him succeed. What does this tactic have to do with power gaming? Why do you imagine that Saxons made goblets of their enemies' heads, if not for the same purpose? Likewise, voodoo priests seem to try the same thing. After all, where better to find spirits than where one was just freed (from its corpse)? > By extension, defacing a body after death could anger the ghost and > cause it to attack, and if defeated, be bound. This is, of course, an > evil act because it dishonors the dead and violates all burial rituals. Proper burial rituals should prevent this, moving the spirit along to Judgement faster than normal (otherwise, it might haunt the living). Just letting the body be eaten by vultures means that its spirit takes the nominal one week to disippate. > Most of the players' ghosts were lost spirits summoned from the . . . (the) > new trend is to find friendly ancestors so that there is no argument > over mis-interpreting commands. If my descendent traps me in a binding, I won't be very friendly for very long! That *is* slavery, after all, hardly filial piety. Any commands that brat gives will CERTAINLY be lawyered as much as possible the other way. Likewise, I will be yelling onto the spirit plane and attracting other spirits as much as possible. That is why most spirits bound are the more will-less ones from the Spirit entry in the rule book. > From: "Hibbs, Philip" > What I was taking umbrage at was the power-gaming > rules-lawyer attitude that seemed to be evident in the tactic of binding > ghosts and using them as combat magic batteries. Again, how better to crush your enemies than to enslave them in the next world, preventing them from going to the Happy Hunting Ground, TyKoraTek, or wherever else? This is proper role playing. If there are no negative consequences, however, *that* is bad *GMing*. Doing this to friends, relatives, or ancestors is questionable behavior, at the least. Perhaps limited to Vadeli, Thanatari, and madmen? Also, since spirit combat has been described like spirits wrestling, a player who did this too often could find out that some spirits can go "berzerk" (RW sense), even it the living character couldn't (ie, a "hit" in Spirit Combat removes 2D3 MP rather than just 1D3, or even a D3+3) (result: spirit combat even with known spirits can be MUCH more dangerous to the PC, at GM discretion). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:30:20 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit RU>> In some cultures, MP Matrix Enchant may be easier to find than RU>>Binding Enchant, Summon Pow Spirit and Control Pow Spirit. These RU>>people use the simple method even though it is not quite as good. RU>I see no reason as to why sorcerers can not summon a spirit and then RU>Dominate them into a binding matrix. Of course Leon, the process is the same. The point was that one spell with one enchantment is much easier to do than three spells with one enchantment and one summons and one control roll for just a minor improvement. Sorcerers are not supposed to go to the spell store and order off the menu. Just finding three specific spells has to be harder than finding one. Learning sorcery spells is harder than learning spells in any other form of magic. Spirit manipulating spells such as these might be uncommon or rare, more expensive, and you tie up five Int instead of one, assuming Bind is three points for sorcerers, I don't know. There are trade-offs in the game world that force characters to make less than ideal choices. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:25:11 +0100 From: wal@eff.u-net.com (Nikk Effingham) Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns >RU>Leon Kirshtein > Thanks Leon, there are similar items on Simon Phipp's (? I think?) >website. I believe he was the one who said that he eventually quit >requiring experience checks and just gave out percent points to spread >across the skill lists. The characters were 200 - 300% with their >weapons before magic effects that could do things like double their >skill and quadruple their damage. In Simons defense, this was not due to his House Rules, only due to the fact that he had played his game for a long time. After playing continously with a character for two years I managed to figure it that if I put my all into a combat situation I could get my attack upto about 600% doing a max unhealable damage of about 100. RQ characters of a long lived nature, especially those with access to sorcery (under any system) increase to quite powerful levels. > For good or bad, the game system was never intended for natural >skills above about 120%, that is why so many people have tried to write >their own Hero Quest rules. Hmmm, to be honest, I've never been convinced that RuneQuest stops working at high levels. I don't really see that many probelems with it. HeroQuest is a different matter... > All systems of this nature have tended to >be unbalanced and required the referee to carefully monitor the players' >progress. I hope mine isn't.. (plug plug...) > Several have even abstracted combat or gotten rid of dice to >create a much stronger story-telling atmosphere. I only believe that YAHQS has. I think most other just divide all skills by 5 or 10. Which works just fine. It reduces power level down to a reasonable level. Power Level has never been a problem IMO, just the details of HeroQuesting such as Cult Support etc.. being a problem. > Instead of creating monster characters and then having to create even >more monstrous villains, I chose to reduce my expectations of what is >needed to Hero Quest. I did both. In Glorantha I think there are lots of powerful deadly Heroes and Monsters (see Dorastor) but I think that EVERYONE uses HeroQuests. Check out Simon Phipps rules, this shows how HeroQuests might be used without entering the exceedingly deadly GodPlane and getting killed. > Any Rune Lord or advanced Priest should be >capable of doing it, and even experienced Initiates should have an even >chance. > The question that always looms ahead is "what is required to control >or master a Rune and what effect will it have on the Physical Plane". >The only real example we have been given of this is Sartar, and he only >used his true power about six times. The stories of Arkat and Argrath >are so vague regarding powers, that it is not possible to determine >specific details. I don;t think that Rune Mastery is such a big issue any more. Lotz of systems ignore it. > The only Hero in an official publication is Ralzakark in the Dorastor >module. He is extremely tough by normal standards but it is made clear >that most beings will apotheosize long before this. He chose to rule on >earth rather than be a lesser god. Even at that, he is quite killable >using properly prepared warrior cultists. The narative in 'Lords of >Terror' is excellent for showing the progress of a war against him in a >believable fashion. There are a few other beings with HeroPowers, and I don't think that in personal, physical terms Ralzakark is the most powerful hero by far. Ralzakarks major power is his influence, power and those undescribed magical powers such as Summoning the Sky Terror, > In the 'Dragon Pass' game and in Greg's own writings, a Hero is an >Avatar that embodies the beliefs of an entire nation. CragSpider, >Harrak, Gunda, Sir Ethilrist, Ralzakark and Jar Eel are Heros even >though there is probably quite a bit of difference in their >competancies. A SuperHero is a Hero that embodies the beliefs of an >entire culture. Argrath and the Red Emperor are the SuperHeros for >Orlanthi and the Empire respectively. I doubt that Superhero should be applied as embodying an entire culture. Harrek is more of a loner, Jar-Eel isn't, Arkat defintely wasn't and Andrgoenous... well... I think that Superhero is just a Hero with the Infinity Rune. All IMVHO! Nikk E. Nikk Effingham http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/7556/ "If absolute power corrupts absolutely, where does that leave God?" -- George Daacon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:25:15 +0100 From: wal@eff.u-net.com (Nikk Effingham) Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] New Sorcery Art. > To overcome this without going to far in power, I am thinking of > creating a new Art named (first thought) "Boost". > > It would works as follows : > > Each point of manipulation (limited also by Boost/10) in that Art may > be given to another Art (only one per casting, not splitting the > points between two Arts or more) and may be used with the normal rules > of the Art, but beyond the normal limit of that Art. I think that if you use Arts/10 to limit skills then you should use the original Sandy rules, that Summon can be used to boost Art levels in spells. You can summon a number of extra levels equal to Summon/10. So ceremony is used to increase maximum numbers of Art levels you can use, and Summon is used to increase the actual Art levels used. I rule that ceremony takes a round for an extra 10%, but that Summon takes an hour for every exrta art level. The bonus to this all is that if you make Ceremony, Summon and Enchant untickable, and the Arts tickable, it all levels our evenly. That is why someone will try and increase Intensity rather than Summon, it's plainly more easy. Nikk Nikk Effingham http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/7556/ "If absolute power corrupts absolutely, where does that leave God?" -- George Daacon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:30:26 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts >Just letting the body be eaten by vultures means >that its spirit takes the nominal one week to disippate. Unless Vultures are seen as the death god's chauffeurs, come to take the spirit from the body by devouring it, then flying off to deliver the spirit to the underworld. >Again, how better to crush your enemies than to enslave them in the >next world, preventing them from going to the Happy Hunting Ground, >TyKoraTek, or wherever else? This is proper role playing. I see your point, it *can* be proper roleplaying, if roleplayed properly! I just had an image of a player saying "Well, I've got 2 POW to spare, I'll get the party shaman to summon me a ghost, and bind it". If I wanted to achieve the same result, I'd use Spell Spirits. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/phibbs A single death is a tragedy a million deaths are a statistic Josef Stalin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:54:17 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit > >>I see no reason as to why sorcerers can not summon a spirit and >>then Dominate them into a binding matrix. > >I guess it's the same reason they can't join cults and sacrifice for divine >magic. They can, but they have religious objections to doing it. > Time out here. What objections? As far as a sorcerer is concerned a spirit is a soul that has not achieved solace and subjugating it to the will of the just is fair game. Let us remember that the God Learners came from the West,were primarily sorcerers, and were fuelling their magics from various spirits and dieties. The problem for sorcerers is not on the religious level, but on the practical. A failed attempt at controling the spirit can result in a possetion with no easy solutions, as well as the rarety of the spells. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 12:09:36 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit >RU>> In some cultures, MP Matrix Enchant may be easier to find than >RU>>Binding Enchant, Summon Pow Spirit and Control Pow Spirit. These >RU>>people use the simple method even though it is not quite as good. > >RU>I see no reason as to why sorcerers can not summon a spirit and then >RU>Dominate them into a binding matrix. > > Of course Leon, the process is the same. No, it is different. A sorcerer just needs to summon and dominate, a shaman needs to find and defeat in spirit combat. >The point was that one >spell with one enchantment is much easier to do than three spells with >one enchantment and one summons and one control roll for just a minor >improvement. I am not following your logic here on the spell count. > Sorcerers are not supposed to go to the spell store and order off the >menu. Just finding three specific spells has to be harder than finding >one. Sorcerers have the same availability to their spells as shamans, in terms of rarety, priests are less restrained but more limited to their god's sphere. >Learning sorcery spells is harder than learning spells in any >other form of magic. I disagree here. It is not more difficult to learn, just takes longer to get good at it. Spirit manipulating spells such as these might be >uncommon or rare, more expensive, Yes, absolutly. and you tie up five Int instead of >one, assuming Bind is three points for sorcerers, I don't know. Summon, and enchant spells do not take up int in RQ3. All sorcery spells take up one int in Sandy's rules. In RQ4 sorcery does not take up int. > There are trade-offs in the game world that force characters to make >less than ideal choices. Yep. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #68 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.