From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #70 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, April 16 1998 Volume 01 : Number 070 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts RE: [RQ-RULES] RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit Re: [RQ-RULES] Philip & Bob, please play nice.... RE: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit [RQ-RULES] RQ 4 [RQ-RULES] Fwd: R: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #65 [RQ-RULES] Fwd: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals [RQ-RULES] RQ 4 Re: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit(2) Re: [RQ-RULES] Magic Item - Orlanthi Jar Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals Re: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit Re: [RQ-RULES] Ghosts, Spirits, Matrices RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:10:02 -0700 (PDT) From: allen wallace Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts On the binding of ancestors... I can see this going in very different directions. It does not have to be an enslavement situation. My (Vormain/Vorumai) Samurai has an heirloom sword with the bound spirit of his ancestor. His ancestor provides some magic, but mostly advice and guidance. I think it goes back to the old saw, sincerity and respect. If the character mistreats or disrespects his ancestors, make him pay. If he pisses off his party, don't talk them out of wasting him. Rewarding unpleasant behavior ruins a game, not actively discouraging power gamers is rewarding them. On a tangent, I've seen several games with dreadnaught class characters that were not in any way power gamed. Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 16:24:03 -0700 (PDT) From: allen wallace Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit >The burning question is: Why make MP enchantments? There must be a reason why Sorcerors do this, and the only one that I can think of is that they have some kind of objection to trafficking... I can think of a reason, anyone can recharge that MP enchantment, thus giving the sorcerer access to his servants, allies and some of his spirits MP's to fuel his own spells. My experienced sorcerer uses a combination of both. She has some restrictive use enchantments on most of her bindings so if she needs to loan an ally MP's she generally does it through her crystals. If you dont have crystals I could see creating the MP matrix Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:21:40 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Philip & Bob, please play nice.... Hibbs, Philip wrote to Bob Stancliff: > > >Philip called me a power-gaming rules lawyer > > No I didn't. Now now boys... am I going to have to knit myself a moderator's cap? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:23:22 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit RU>>>Summon, and enchant spells do not take up int in RQ3. RU>>Eh? Yes they do, don't they say something like "1 point (memorisation RU>>only)"? RU>No RU>Leon They don't say it because all sorcery spells require 1 INT to memorize. What the Magic Book says is: PREFACE pg 5 Each of the three approaches to magic has ritual spells which must be used in conjunction with ritual proceedures. pg 10 Ritual Spell: ... These spells direct and define the ritual. ... Ritual spells are learned in the same manner as other spells. SORCERY pg 41 Memorizing Spells: ... Each memorized spell requires allocation of one point of INT for that purpose. RITUAL MAGIC pg 52 During a Summoning or Enchanting ritual the performer must also use one of the ritual spells to define the direction and purpose of the rite. ... An adventurer's knowledge of the ritual spells requires INT to memorize. ... An adventurer learns ritual spells in the same manner that he learns other types of spells. Bob Stancliff (stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:17:40 -0500 From: "Paul W. Stolar" Subject: [RQ-RULES] RQ 4 Did anyone ever make an RQ4 character sheet? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:44:26 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Fwd: R: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #65 RU>Phillip Hibbs writes: RU>>Whenever I come across abusive use of the rules, which is usually a case of RU>>"It doesn't say I can't", I look for reasons why it either can't be done or RU>>is horribly dangerous. Here's one: If someone's near ancestor has become a RU>>ghost, bound, and forced to forget the cult rituals (spells), then their RU>>initiation ceremony will fail.... Hmmm, interesting house rule, not official, of course. He made more points arguing game balance. RU>Here's another: the RQ3 Creatures book tells us that a lot of ghosts RU>are insane. What are the effects of magically commanding an insane RU>being? Does it do what you tell it to do? Does it do random things? RU>Does it do *anything*? I don't recall anyone ever trying to bind an insane ghost. Maybe I should have been more careful to check sanity. It might have happened. RU>Another sticky point: how does the magical compulsion in a Binding RU>Enchantment work? Is it literalistic? Everything I have read suggests that it is literalistic, unless you tell the ghost to use it's discretion... RU>If you command your bound ghost RU>to expend 2 POW on an Armoring Enchantment for your head, can the RU>ghost (which is sentient and probably quite bright) spend another 1 RU>POW of its own volition and put a limiting condition on the RU>enchantment so that it doesn't work for you? Check the Muriah story in Shadows on the Borderlands. The ghost there has not only gone mad, it is still bound to do exactally what it was ordered. It's only volition is to 'talk' to the non-chaos characters it is killing and tell them all about his life story and why they must die. Bob Stancliff (stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:48:10 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Fwd: RU>On the other hand, I can't see anything that suggests a Binding RU>Enchantment takes up more than one point of INT, either. The sorceror RU>may need to spend multiple points of POW to create a binding, but the RU>spell itself takes up one point like any other sorcery spell. I knew that the Binding Enchantment Spirit Spell was three points, but I have looked it up and all sorcery spells and sorcery ritual spells take one INT. Bob Stancliff (stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:05:08 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts RU>On the binding of ancestors... RU> I can see this going in very different directions. It does not have to be ... RU> I think it goes back to the old saw, sincerity and respect. If the RU>character mistreats or disrespects his ancestors, make him pay. If he RU>pisses off his party, don't talk them out of wasting him. ... Thank you. In the RQ2 modules trolls bind their enemies and sometimes bind volunteers. Duke Raus had an ancestor request to be bound into a sword. He paid the heroes handsomly to recover the weapon. Balastor asked his god to bind him into his weapon. In RQ3 the Shadows book has a Lankhor Mhy bound to a Thanatar altar with the requirement that it give enchantments to any chaos (priest?) who asked. King of Sartar mentions a human living in Sartar who is possessed by a ghost from the EWF. This quiet, peaceful ghost forced the original soul out of the body and kept it. The Munchrooms module of the Troll Pack has a sword with a trapped spirit who orders the trollkin around that carries it. I don't know exactly how this fits within the rules, but it is published under RQ2 and RQ3. Bob Stancliff (stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:59:43 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals Leon Kirshtein wrote: > > One of the solution proposed was to give some AP to elementals. My > > problem with this idea is that it is difficult to explain how such > AP > > are here! > > Some people suggested that elementals should take damage only from > magic. I think that this will make them too powerful. Perhaps. But how many combats in RQ really take place without magic? > > Elemental recover HP each round, according to its size : 1HP/m3 > each > > round. > > Now, this is a very interesting and not overbalancing proposal. I like this one, too. FMC, I may combine the two. :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:08:52 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] RQ 4 RU>Did anyone ever make an RQ4 character sheet? yes, but it was a 17 cpi full page Lotus123 spreadsheet, DOS version 1.3. Totally incompatible with windowing programs. It can be loaded but won't display correctly. Bob Stancliff (stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:10:02 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit(2) stancliff@commnections.com wrote: > I saw someone argue that MP Matrices are a Gods Learner trick to > replace MP Crystals. > In some cultures, MP Matrix Enchant may be easier to find than > Binding Enchant, Summon Pow Spirit and Control Pow Spirit. These people > would use the simple method even though it is not quite as good. One of the advantages to a magic point matrix is that anybody can recharge it, even folks who don't have any access to magic at all. I never had anyone in my campaign do it (except NPCs, of course), but it's perfectly reasonable for a sorcerer (or anybody with a MPM) to have his servants recharge his MPM for him (even at a point at a time, a modest household can keep a matrix fully charged. > Remember, the game was designed so that most people never have a > chance to get most spells. They can get their cult's spells and they > can pay three or four times as much to get allied cult's spells. Even > several types of shamen can only use certain types of spirits and spells > because of cult restrictions. Generally only Waha, Daka Fal, and > unaligned shamen can use all types of spirits and all spirit spells. Most of the shamen I've seen played had no fear (well, little fear, anyway) of roaming the spirit plane looking for spells. Of course, as the GM, I had ultimate control over what they got, as I ruled that the only way to know what spell the spirit carried was to battle it and find out. If things went bad, they'd book. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:12:49 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Magic Item - Orlanthi Jar Nikk Effingham wrote: > > This is a reasonably powerful magic item that I've thought about using in my > campaign. The talk of Binding Humans and other corporeal creatures reminded > of it. While Gloranthan, it will, like anything else, fit pretty easily into > any other game world. Oh yes, I can think of at least one non-Gloranthan game world that's going to see these used... Much thanx! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:04:20 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals RU>I like this one, too. FMC, I may combine the two. :) OK, I want to be a shaman in your campaign. Bob Stancliff (stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 20:23:33 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit >RU>No, it is different. A sorcerer just needs to summon and dominate, a >RU>shaman needs to find and defeat in spirit combat. > In all three forms of magic you acquire, defeat, and bind. >Everything else is details. What is a gross over simplification of the proccess. The proccess itself, and the dangers associated with it, is what limits the amount of power spirits in sorcerers' hands. > MP Matrix Enchant is a spell that has to be learned and takes up INT. > Binding Enchant is a spell that has to be learned and takes up INT. > Summon is a spell that has to be learned and takes up >INT. > Dominate is a spell that has to be learned and takes up >INT. >It takes one spell to get a MP Matrix, it takes three spells to get a >bound Pow spirit. The Pow spirit is Usually bigger than the Matrix, but >it requires more trouble. Pow spirits are almost always bigger 2d6+3 vs (depending on how you play) 1 to 1d10 > >RU>Sorcerers have the same availability to their spells as shamans, in >RU>terms of rarety, priests are less restrained but more limited to their >RU>god's sphere. > Any shaman can discorporate and eventually find the spell spirit they >need without outside help. Not true under all systems, and possiably very dangerous under RQ3. A sorcerer has to get a spell from another >sorcerer by direct or indirect means, unless you allow spell creation. > >RU>I disagree here. It is not more difficult to learn, just takes longer to >RU>get good at it. > That is a significant time investment. It is a significant time investment by a shaman to search out a particular spirit. A sorcerer with a reasonable ceremony can get away on a smaller percentage in the summon and take a chance on the enchant. But in general yes, it is a significant time investment initially. > >RU>>and you tie up five Int instead of >RU>>one, assuming Bind is three points for sorcerers, I don't know. >RU>Summon, and enchant spells do not take up int in RQ3. > Sorry, This is wrong!! > >RU>All sorcery spells take up one int in Sandy's rules. > This would be one Int vs three Int. > >RU>In RQ4 sorcery does not take up int. > By the copy I saw, all sorcery took one Int. Byt the copy of RQ4 I have, no sorcery takes up Int as spells are treated as skills. I will double check on RQ3 since I do not have a copy of it on me and will get back. My, we certainly stired things up today. I am definantly enjoying all the disscussion. Lets keep it up. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 23:06:06 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Ghosts, Spirits, Matrices stancliff@commnections.com wrote: > > This is described in the rules on Resurrection. A shaman should > certainly be able to Discorporate and question nearby spirits. A few > will even speak freely without coercion. In most cases, they'd CAUSED the person to die, so they were seldom willing to chat much. In at least one circumstance, the deceased were assassins who'd been paid handsomely, and still had relatives under their control of their employers... one of them tried to possess the shaman to finish the job... > Most of the players' ghosts were lost spirits summoned from the > spirit plane, several more were from the 'well of spirits' in Snake Pipe > Hollow, a few were guardians bound by chaos or darkness foes, and the > new trend is to find friendly ancestors so that there is no argument > over mis-interpreting commands. My wife's brief role playing career involved a female bushi with an "ancestor sword"... among other things, it contained the ghost of her great grandfather. Leon Kirshtein wrote: > I see no reason as to why sorcerers can not summon a spirit and then > Dominate them into a binding matrix. The one in my party generally did so on a semi-regular basis. He liked things that would regenerate on their own. > That I would like to find out is how people play bound spirits. For > example do you allow a player to give his power spirit to another player > to use? On occasion, the shaman in the party would lend out the use of his fetch-held spirits to recharge MPMs, but I always ruled that they went back to the spirit plane afterwards (and shortly thereafter go fetch it back; he'd coerced truenames out of most of his spirits). > Do you play what the spirit is released if its magic points go > down to zero? Is the spirit released then the owner dies? Etc. Never used the zero rule, and the death rule never occurred to me. Hit 'em with an anti-magic sphere once, though. For that, I ruled that any spirit with an INT would hightail it for the spirit plane as soon as the binding was inside the no magic zone... Douglas Bailey wrote: > Here's another: the RQ3 Creatures book tells us that a lot of ghosts > are insane. What are the effects of magically commanding an insane > being? Does it do what you tell it to do? Does it do random things? > Does it do *anything*? I suppose it would depend on the ghost, and the form of insanity it possesses. Most forms of madness would, IMG, filter the commands as given, proddducing strnage results. > Another sticky point: how does the magical compulsion in a Binding > Enchantment work? Is it literalistic? If you command your bound ghost > to expend 2 POW on an Armoring Enchantment for your head, can the > ghost (which is sentient and probably quite bright) spend another 1 > POW of its own volition and put a limiting condition on the > enchantment so that it doesn't work for you? Well, published sources appear to support the idea that bound spirits can be forced to expend POW on the binder's behalf (not that I ever allowed this...) so it's not unreasonable that such commands could turn out to be bargains with the devil when it comes to the wording of agreements.... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #70 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. 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