From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #73 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Friday, April 17 1998 Volume 01 : Number 073 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals [RQ-RULES] Re: The campaigns [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #69 Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns Re: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit & shamen RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #71 Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:15:36 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals RU>>OK, I want to be a shaman in your campaign. RU>>Bob Stancliff RU>So do I, but then I would like to play a shaman in any campaing. RU>Leon Kirshtein Hey Leon, I got the impression is a post yesterday that you thought sorcerers could summon spirits to learn sorcery spells. I suppose that if you bound a dead sorcerer this would be possible, but there are not supposed to be spell spirits for sorcery spells. The rules allow for very unusual spell spirits, but I thought about this for a long time before dropping the idea. It would have changed the flavor of Glorantha. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:28:12 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: The campaigns RU>> Androgyous is or becomes a super hero, but Greg never says why. RU>Androgeus is a powerful hero not because he has RU>performed great heroics but because she is the RU>pityful remains of an as yet unnamed great deity RU>who has lost power after power through constant RU>lousy luck. Good argument, King of Sartar discussed some unusual beings that appeared as the world starts to fall apart, this could certainly be one of those. When my players did Snake Pipe Hollow they freed the young god, Baroshi, and I left him in the game as a minor hero who rebuilds the ancient temple of the earth, so that his followers can push chaos out of the Hollow. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 14:28:35 +0000 From: "David Boatright" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #69 >From: stancliff@commnections.com > Duels at rune level fall into one of two categories, attack your >opponent's shield and weapon, or swing until the parry fails and you >crit. And as we all know battles between heros in myth and legend, never go on for long periods of time. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:36:20 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals RU>> Elemental recover HP each round, according to its size : 1HP/m3 RU>> each round. RU>> Now, this is a very interesting and not overbalancing proposal. RU>How about it recovers in it's own element, salamanders in fires, sylphs in RU>windy areas, etc.? A much better variant, otherwise any elemental over about 5m will always kill most parties before the party can kill it. They are already very dangerous to moderate level characters. Making them better means they threaten parties of rune levels. I run them normally, but there was a battle where a sylph was brought out, the enemy failed to command it, so he threw a chaos spell at it that warped it's stats and drove it mad. It is very dangerous now and cannot go home because it has become complete. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:35:41 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns stancliff@commnections.com wrote: > > I only play RQ so that I can play Glorantha, these discussions matter so > far as the rules define the world, so it does matter to me. Otherwise I > would play Champions. One might ask, why not use the Champions system on Glorantha? I'm in the process of converting elements of AD&D's World of Greyhawk to RQ; why can't the same be done with Champions? Afterall, it's supposed to be a role-playing game. In the end, the system you use is just a way of interacting with the game world you've chosen. I've seen numerous conversions for use on Glorantha, afterall. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:41:23 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit & shamen A sorcerer can throw Spirit Resist >ahead of time and then try to Dominate the spirit before it leaves (if >you allow them to leave). The real threat is the 10% chance that a huge >version shows up. Without Spirit Block and Spirit Screen the sorcerer >Will be possessed unless he is allowed to run for his life. Yes, (note: Spirit Resist is a defensive spell and does not help in Dominating the spirit. I am sure you meant it this way also.) > >RU>Pow spirits are almost always bigger 2d6+3 vs (depending on how you >RU>play) 1 to 1d10 > It is very clear that a Pow Spirit averages twice the MP's, but is it >worth the extra time, money, and risk just to same one point of POW? >This is a risk/cost analysis decision. In some remote locations the >Summon & Dominate (Pow Spirit ) might not be available so a person has >to use MP Matrix. Yes. That do you mean by extra money? > >RU>>Any shaman can discorporate and eventually find the spell spirit >RU>>they need without outside help. >RU>Not true under all systems, and possiably very dangerous under RQ3. > Under RQ3 the rules say that a summoned spirit can leave when it >chooses. Since no intelligent spirit will stay just to be captured, it >is impossible for shamen to summon, defeat, and control most, if not >all, spirits. Power spirits are not intelegent. >They will leave immediately. Shamens have an advantage of being able to chase down a fleeing spirit. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 09:48:58 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts RU>Does this mean you allow people to make enchantments with other RU>peoples POW? So that a shaman can make enchantments without RU>sacrificing power? That would lead to players tapping people for POW RU>I think. Just capture a sucker, tell him he have to cooperate or die, RU>and drain 5 point of POW form him. There was a misunderstanding, I think Philip expected the person with two Pow to make his own bind and then ask the shaman to give him a spirit. The rules allow a person to sacrifice a POW to create a link between two beings, usually a man and his god, or an apprentice and his sorcerer. There is an implied ritual involved and the result is a soul link between the two beings which can pass some very vague emotional effects that are appropriate for future learning. Daka Fal has a spell that can be sacrificed for that allows a POW point to be gifted to an ancestor. It is implied that the ancestor must be dead. I can see extensions of this ability granted by the god to make it more general; gift to living ancestors or to other people. I haven't allowed this in my game yet, but I would probably allow it as a DI. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 06:46:54 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals > Hey Leon, I got the impression is a post yesterday that you thought >sorcerers could summon spirits to learn sorcery spells. Not something which I implied in my posts. But possible if a ghost is summoned and stays around for at least a week(IMW), or as long as it takes to learn a spell in your world. I suppose that >if you bound a dead sorcerer this would be possible, but there are not >supposed to be spell spirits for sorcery spells. Never implied this. There are no SPELL SPIRITS for sorcery spellsLeon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:20:16 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns RU>Is that a problem? While the first certainly is, attacking and destroying RU>weaponary has been far easier than it should be, but when you have two rune RU>lords then you either assume that you're going to have to wait for that RU>special attack, and if you're a rune lord, lets assume with 100% attack and RU>the ability to increase it by another 50%, then you've got 30% chance to RU>special! That hit will come 1 in 3 times! At these defense levels, a special does minor damage which can usually be healed easily. RU> You can always split your attacks, RU>after all your foe can only parry one, and the other one will come straight RU>through, unless he splits his parry - in which case the skill percentages RU>are now so divided that it would just be like fighting as an initiate, Sorry, you can only split your attack if there are two or more opponents to hit, not the same one twice. RU>except with two blows per round. Personally I stack a high Bladesharp with a RU>Truesword and Beserk and roll on in waiting for the critical. Remember, your RU>allied spirit can't heal you if your head isn't actually attatched to your RU>neck stump... Given enough defense, this works quite well, but if your opponents can penetrate your defense, the lack of parry can get you killed quick. RU>>RU>I hope mine isn't.. (plug plug...) RU>> I don't think I have ever seen your web page or Hero quest rules. RU> Come 'on Bob, you rewrote the format for one of my HeroQuests! Was that you? It's been long enough that slipped my mind. Besides, I reformatted a lot of stuff around then, including the 300k RQ4 file. RU>YAHQS is not RQ and that is a bit of a simplification. I think that YAHQS RU>needs some number crunching and playtesting, but is quite workable. I would RU>be intrested in seeing the other system you mention, is it available on the Why abstract to the point of allowing 5000% skills? I won't put the gods much over 500%, this is mainly a question of expectations for extreme values. RU>of my players who has a just-about-to-turn-adept character realized, if you RU>get the drop on something in RuneQuest it's as good as dead. A favorite tactic with my game is for a very skilled foe to attack before the player can command any spirits, the chance of getting a quick victory goes down dramatically with each succeeding round. RU>IIRC Dragon Pass states that it is Jar-Eel and not the Red Emperor who is a RU>Superhero. I think that the Red Emperors place is as a figurehead for the RU>Empire and not a motivating, social force like Jar-Eel is. It's been a long time since I read that material, I could certainly be wrong about it. RU>CragSpider is a demigod, which I feel is substantially different from a RU>Superhero, as if you get to Hero and choose to either become a Superhero or RU>try and ascend into Godhood. I don't recall the Dragon Pass game rating her that high. She is definitely a force in Dragon Pass. Someone argued in their Hero Quest rules that heroes are worshipped by their followers; in effect they are already demi-gods. Having not ascended to the God Plane, they could not yet be true gods. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:29:59 +0000 From: "Simon Phipp" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #71 Nikk Effingham: > Yes! I believe in Rune Mastery! According to Sandy the post-Time > Superheros are Arkat, Elamale, Jar-Eel, Harrek and Androgenous (if I > remember correctly). Pre time would be Tada etc... In the Zeroth Wane, Yanafal Tarnils is described as a Super Hero. Now he is a deity. Superherodom is merely a name for a powerful Hero, I don't think there was anything special about Yanafal tarnils then or Jar-Eel now. Certainly there is no mystical difference between them and other Heroes/Deities. > This raises two points. Firstly, killing them is hard. But you have > to give a reason. If they can be given stats, which they certainly > can for we know that mere mortals have slain people like the Red > Emperor. If they have stats, and your players have the ability to > slay them, (not replace) then I - - as a GM - would have to admit > that they could. Many Heroes have been killed by mortals. The trick is keeping them dead or avoiding being killed by their Spirits or their friends. > Everybody probably > told the trollkin he didn't stand a chance against Ruric Runespear > and look what happened to him.... : ) We always knew about this, one of the things in our campaign was NEVER to ignore the trollkin with the spear as he would almost certainly score a critical and kill you as you parried the Great troll, defended out the Beserking Troll and chopped the Dark Troll in pieces. > Using HeroQuests however, you > can ensure these people stay dead. Stick them in Lunar Hell, feed > them to the Black Eater, imprison them in Adamant, anything! Makes Sense. In my opinion, this is how most of the Major Heroes are killed. Hon-Eel (another SuperHero) died at the Nights of Horror because this was a HeroQuest. Her husband died on a HeroQuest against a River God. Otherwise they would have been resurrected. How many times has the Red Emperor, Ethilrist, the Pharoah or even Jar-Eel been killed? Fairly often. Bob Stancliffe: > Under RQ3 the rules say that a summoned spirit can leave when it > chooses. Since no intelligent spirit will stay just to be captured, it > is impossible for shamen to summon, defeat, and control most, if not > all, spirits. They will leave immediately. I changed this in my game > to say that spirits fanatically attack the nearest sentient creature, > because I felt that shamen should be able to summon and defeat spirits > so that they can use their control spells. I got around this by having a Summoning Circle which spirits were summoned into. They could not leave the circle without defeating the Summoner, unless the Summoner left the circle. In any case, most of the things my PCs summoned were cult spirits and were subject to a Command Cult Spirit spell to force them to stay and be bound. One of the advantages of being a shaman in a cult. Simon Phipp ======================================================= If it has stats it can be killed. If it is in the rules it can be abused. If it is mentioned it can be targetted. People can change the world and screw up the Timeline. Restrictions are for NPCs, not for PCs. Taking Power Gaming to new extremes (in a sensitive, role-playing way, of course) ======================================================= *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:35:38 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns Nikk Effingham wrote: > > Geez, go to bed for eight hours, wake up and find 44 messages from the > Digest in my box : ) Heh. Tell me about it. A week ago I wondered where everybody went. Now... > - rewarding ideas and roleplaying instead of ticks (I've seen people change > weapons constantly just to get the ticks) - there was a limit on the amount > you could increase by. I would assume that a similar thing is in place here. I used a feature called Elan (borrowed from Stormbringer with bits of Shadowrun) to reward roleplaying IMC. Basically, if you had 30 points of Elan, you could choose to use any amount of it to lower your dice rolls; i.e. if you had a 55% skill in Climb, chose to use 10 points of Elan, and rolled a 65, you'd still succeed. Once used, it was gone, but I was fairly generous with it for good roleplaying. I tried to be alot more stringent with ticks... with varying degrees of success. > Is that a problem? While the first certainly is, attacking and destroying > weaponary has been far easier than it should be, I've actually seen very few broken weapons over the years. > Yes certainly, the beasties in Dorastor can be killed. As could Ralzakark > (IF you could convince him to get into a one-on-one fight with you, and > thats why Ralzakark is alive today...). The Terrors in Elder Secrets? I > think the Crimson Bat and Mother of Monsters would be unkillable If it has stats, it can be killed. Basic truism, no matter what the system. Hardest part of my current Greyhawk conversion is turning all those aweful stats into a cult writeup I can live with. Which is why we used to crack open the D&D books and go on god killing sprees. "Fighter 20/Magic User 25/Thief 15? I can take THAT!" Roll,roll, thunk! > thing in our group used to be, when the GM was dealing with someone else, to > postulate how to kill the Bat using whatever bizarre methods you wanted), My last group had a message chain (which the excluded me from!) on the net over how to kill Vincent, their primary adversary (see my NPC post, 50+ digests back or so). They never did, though... in the end, it was safer to let him have the power he sought and retreat home... > conceivable that once they move into even more power, such as higher > bladesharps, more rune magic, special abilites etc... that they could kill > ANYTHING. If they put their minds to it. And used a lot of cunning. As one > of my players who has a just-about-to-turn-adept character realized, if you > get the drop on something in RuneQuest it's as good as dead. Same applies in nearly any game system, I think. Ambush is a happy skill, when you're theone using it. :) > I could be convinced that Argrath achieves Superherodom. But I would be more > inclined to believe that he Ascended to Godhood instead. Soon as they finish the HeroQuest rules, we're getting the rules fo GodQuest, right? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #73 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.