From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #74 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Friday, April 17 1998 Volume 01 : Number 074 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit Re: [RQ-RULES] Attachments Re: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit & shamen Re: [RQ-RULES] Ghosts, Spirits, Matrices Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts [RQ-RULES] Experience, Heroes, Spirits, Sorcerers, [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #69 Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns Re: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit & shamen Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:42:16 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit Hibbs, Philip wrote: > > It seems strange to me too, POW spirits and Intellect spirits seem > custom-made for sorcerors to utilise. A long ago article from Dragon magazine (by a Micheal DeWolfe, I believe) stated that the first spells a sorcerer should learn are summon/bind INT & POW spirit. > enchantments? There must be a reason why Sorcerors do this, and the only one > that I can think of is that they have some kind of objection to trafficking > with spirits. The impression I got from Arlateen in SiP was that spirits fell into the same category as trolls; krjalki mosters to be shunned, or destroyed. It's probably wrapped up in some aspect of Solace we haven't heard of yet. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:02:51 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Attachments Hibbs, Philip wrote: > > or individually? Can the list handle attachments, Tal? The LIST can, but it'll be garbage to the digest. Better to put it on a website or mail it individually. > PS. Tal, my Compu$erve account seems to have subscribed itself to the list - > I didn't do it! That was likely me. Quite a few folks lately have been trying to post from accounts other than the ones they signed up on; the list treats them like spam and bounces them to me. (the good thing about this is that we're unlikely to get normal spam here; if majordomo can't make sense of your address, I have to authorize the signon). I could set it up so that anyone could post from any account, but I've seen the spam that generates. If it's a problem, unsub the account, but then you'll have to watch where you post from in the future. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:22:51 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit & shamen stancliff@commnections.com wrote: > > summons is 15 and they average 10. A sorcerer can throw Spirit Resist > ahead of time and then try to Dominate the spirit before it leaves (if > you allow them to leave). The real threat is the 10% chance that a huge > version shows up. Without Spirit Block and Spirit Screen the sorcerer > Will be possessed unless he is allowed to run for his life. Not that they ever tried it, but I was always prepared to rule that using any of the defense boosting spells in a normal summoning would have automatically summoned something huge (say, something with just enough more POW to dominate the caster instantly in a straight fight). In a normal cult ritual, I'd have ruled that an emissary of the god would show up and rebuke the applicant. For a shaman, the horned man might well appear, and for sorcerers.... > Under RQ3 the rules say that a summoned spirit can leave when it > chooses. First, it has to roll under it's POW, checking once per round. In many cases, that could be more than enough time to defeat it in spirit combat or bind it, or whatever. > all, spirits. They will leave immediately. I changed this in my game > to say that spirits fanatically attack the nearest sentient creature, > because I felt that shamen should be able to summon and defeat spirits > so that they can use their control spells. The theory behind the various magical symbols (pentagrams, circles, octagons, triangles, etc.) is that they were for containing spirits and/or keeping them from shunting off before their summoners were done with them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:35:59 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Ghosts, Spirits, Matrices stancliff@commnections.com wrote: > > RU>their control of their employers... one of them tried to possess the > RU>shaman to finish the job... > Cool gets better, The assassins were armed with demon weapons (ala Elric!) and the shaman tried examining one of those from the spirit plane... big mistake. It broke free, squashed the shaman like a bug, possessed him, and killed/incapacitated half the party before being brought down by some timely DI. > it. They can be lent, stolen, or captured. The biggest danger is when > you give a bad guy a lot of magic so that the players can't beat him and > they do anyway. User conditions. :) > Since most bound spirits are hostile, they will look for any valid > mis-wording that allows them to escape. Commanding spirits to leave a > bind for any reason is a good way to lose them. So is failing to put user conditions on them. Right control spells can call spirits right out of their bindings if the opposition knows what you have ahead of time. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:43:49 -0500 From: "Michael A. Pastorello" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals > Hey Leon, I got the impression is a post yesterday that you thought >sorcerers could summon spirits to learn sorcery spells. I suppose that >if you bound a dead sorcerer this would be possible, but there are not >supposed to be spell spirits for sorcery spells. The rules allow for >very unusual spell spirits, but I thought about this for a long time >before dropping the idea. Well heres my opinion on this. I allow characters that are sorcerors to use spirits to teach them spells. I did this after several players complained about how long that it takes sorcerors to learn spells. So they were happy until of course they actually summoned a spirit that knew sorcery magic and found that the ritual that they needed in order to learn fom the spirit still took the allotted hundred hours, with no breaks until he actually finished learning the spell. Course thats 4 days with no food or water. Now that sorceror is a spirit who may also teach spells if he wishes. And of course my players never complained again. Bye for now. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:44:15 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Elementals stancliff@commnections.com wrote: > > Hey Leon, I got the impression is a post yesterday that you thought > sorcerers could summon spirits to learn sorcery spells. I suppose that > if you bound a dead sorcerer this would be possible, but there are not > supposed to be spell spirits for sorcery spells. The rules allow for > very unusual spell spirits, but I thought about this for a long time > before dropping the idea. It would have changed the flavor of > Glorantha. Spell spirits, no... magic spirits, certainly. The only problem I had with sorcery-using magic spirits (under Sandy's system) was that it was unclear exactly how much Presence they had. I usually wound up filling their heads with "useless" spells to keep their Presence low. So the players would wind up with access to stuff like Reduce Swim or Bless Butterfly Net. I half hoped they'd find interesting uses for the spells I'd made up, but most never got used. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 11:52:34 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts stancliff@commnections.com wrote: > > The rules allow a person to sacrifice a POW to create a link between > two beings, usually a man and his god, or an apprentice and his > sorcerer. There is an implied ritual involved and the result is a soul > link between the two beings which can pass some very vague emotional > effects that are appropriate for future learning. A similar ritual might exist for marriages, if you think about it. Both spouses being able to sense the felings/thoughts of the other, or something similar. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:54:02 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ghosts >stancliff@commnections.com wrote: >> >> The rules allow a person to sacrifice a POW to create a link between >> two beings, usually a man and his god, or an apprentice and his >> sorcerer. There is an implied ritual involved and the result is a soul >> link between the two beings which can pass some very vague emotional >> effects that are appropriate for future learning. > >A similar ritual might exist for marriages, if you think about it. Both >spouses being able to sense the felings/thoughts of the other, or >something similar. Please, lets not even bring this up. It conjures all kind of bad things. Leon K. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:07:52 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Experience, Heroes, Spirits, Sorcerers, >But look at something like Cwim or the Crimson Bat, which also have stats. >Then compare the Hero Counters in Dragon Pass/Nomad Gods. You need some way >to explain how Harrek, for instance, can kill the Crimson Bat, Cwim or >Cacodemon - he needs to be of comparable ability/skill/strength. I am relatively certain that I could kill Quim with about 100 Bison riders with Dosge, Ride, Lasso, and Lance skills at 75%. 30 - 50% of the men would die in the process and it would take several weeks to track him down repeatedly for another attack. >A Hero can work for the best interests of his followers and also be >Illuminated. All illumination allows, in this case, is the ability to break >the rules once in a while in order to achieve the correct result. After all, >Orlanth broke the rules on more than one occasion, Argrath broke the Rules >when he freed Sheng Seleris. Many HeroQuests have succeeded because people >broke the rules and did things differently. Illumination is the best tool >for this. I wasn't actually arguing against Illumination, I say claiming that it was not likely to sway a dedicated leader from his goals or from his integrity. Bob Stancliff(e): >> Duels at rune level fall into one of two categories, attack your >> opponent's shield and weapon, or swing until the parry fails and you >> crit. >In RQ3 perhaps, which is why I used a number of House Rules to make combat >at High Levels more dangerous. In RQ2, we had Anti-Parry which speeded up >combat but made for ridiculous NPCs: how do you stop the Beserker with 300% >attack - have NPCs with 350% Parry etc. Wasn't Anti-Parry a house rule? I don't remember it in RQ2. In fact, RQ2 had Defense skill which was like a permanent shimmer that got better with skill checks. Eventually you could become nearly impossible to hit. >> Shamen are greatly weakened because if they summon a spirit or >> Discorporate to find one they have to defeat it in spirit combat, >> which reduces it's MP's to 0, before they can Control it. Then it >> is put into the bind and takes several days to recover. >Not at all. A spirit regenerates all its MPs in a single day as it >regenerates 1/24th POW every hour. In fact, if you round up, spirits >regenerate MPs a lot faster. I was responding to Alain's post where he didn't allow spirits to recover in 24 hours. I feel it was a grave injustice to a large portion of his game world to make that change. Spirits were put in the game to bind and use. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:15:18 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #69 RU>> Duels at rune level fall into one of two categories, attack your RU>>opponent's shield and weapon, or swing until the parry fails and you RU>>crit. RU>And as we all know battles between heros in myth and legend, never go RU>on for long periods of time. The accuracy of the simulation does not detract from it's boredom to play. Most of my characters can do enough damage that they can destroy the opponent's shield and kill him when he is defenseless. The shield has to be magically reinforced to take the damage, iron is not nearly enough.. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:21:48 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns RU>> I only play RQ so that I can play Glorantha, these discussions matter so RU>> far as the rules define the world, so it does matter to me. Otherwise I RU>> would play Champions. RU>One might ask, why not use the Champions system on Glorantha? I have actually started the conversion, but I have put little time into it so far. I might have enough finished next year to play-test it. There are major changes in the way the spells are written and applied because the systems are so different. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:41:20 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Bound Spirit & shamen RU>Yes, (note: Spirit Resist is a defensive spell and does not help in RU>Dominating the spirit. I am sure you meant it this way also.) You would probably multi-spell the two and hope to get them off before the spirit comes out of summoning shock, or cast a two day resist before the summons starts. RU>>worth the extra time, money, and risk just to same one point of POW? RU>>This is a risk/cost analysis decision. In some remote locations the RU>>Summon & Dominate (Pow Spirit ) might not be available so a person has RU>>to use MP Matrix. RU>Yes. That do you mean by extra money? Don't your sorcerers have to PAY for spells??? Really!! Then there is the cost of travel to the capital to find the right Dominate spell, followed by the material components for the Summons, this all adds up! Weeks of time can be lost in the process that could be put to use studying. I mean... Really!! RU>> Under RQ3 the rules say that a summoned spirit can leave when it RU>>chooses. Since no intelligent spirit will stay just to be captured, it RU>>is impossible for shamen to summon, defeat, and control most, if not RU>>all, spirits. RU>Power spirits are not intelegent. But if they don't attack, then you can't defeat them in spirit combat, and you can't control them. They just float there until they leave, and the shaman can't do a thing about it. RU>>MOST will leave immediately. RU>Shamens have an advantage of being able to chase down a fleeing spirit. Please consider... the spirit is summoned, waits three rounds and leaves. The shaman starts to discorporate and one HOUR later he enters the spirit plane to chase it down. All he knows is the direction the fetch saw it leave. If it left in a hurry, it could me a dozen miles away by now, it might have changed direction several times or be hiding in some cave. YOU WILL NOT FIND IT. If you summon it again the same thing happens. SHAMEN CANNOT SUMMON AND BIND SPIRITS UNLESS YOU CHANGE AT LEAST ONE RULE. This might have been intentional, but I think it was an oversight. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 20:46:14 +0100 From: wal@eff.u-net.com (Nikk Effingham) Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The campaigns >RU>Is that a problem? While the first certainly is, attacking and destroying >RU>weaponary has been far easier than it should be, but when you have two rune >RU>lords then you either assume that you're going to have to wait for that >RU>special attack, and if you're a rune lord, lets assume with 100% attack and >RU>the ability to increase it by another 50%, then you've got 30% chance to >RU>special! That hit will come 1 in 3 times! > At these defense levels, a special does minor damage which can >usually be healed easily. Hmm, lets assume a simple sword, 1d8+1 normal, with a bladesharp 6. You're doing an average of 17 damage on an impale. Easily enough to wipe out a location utterly in one blow, even after armour - if the armour is particulary high then maybe two blows to that location would be better. As for healing it, this was a problem in an earlier campaign I played where unconsious characters could Heal themselves... however, as soon as the location is reduced to minus full hp and the Rune Lord will, almost always, fall unconsious, stopping them from healing themselves, so they are left with allied spirits and magic spirits. How do you stop them from healing the Rune Lord? You don't, just keep hitting him when he's down so that the damage is so massive that you are inflicting more damage than he is healing. Alternatively you can leave the weapon impaled. This happens quite a lot in my game. > Sorry, you can only split your attack if there are two or more >opponents to hit, not the same one twice. Ah, yes, good point. Then just gang up on him then : ) >RU>YAHQS is not RQ and that is a bit of a simplification. I think that YAHQS >RU>needs some number crunching and playtesting, but is quite workable. I would >RU>be intrested in seeing the other system you mention, is it available on the > Why abstract to the point of allowing 5000% skills? I won't put the >gods much over 500%, this is mainly a question of expectations for >extreme values. As Diamond Dwarves have 2000% skills then I don't see gods having 5000% being out of the question.... If we considered a 200yr old vampire, who turned master of a skill at 40, then estimate 3% increase per year (very low IMO) you would have a skill of 570%. I think Gods are more powerful than 200yr old vampires. >RU>of my players who has a just-about-to-turn-adept character realized, if you >RU>get the drop on something in RuneQuest it's as good as dead. > A favorite tactic with my game is for a very skilled foe to attack >before the player can command any spirits, the chance of getting a >quick victory goes down dramatically with each succeeding round. One character in my campaign came up with the best way in the world to slay someone, he worshipped St. Daly (see Sandy's Saints rules), cast Sever Spirit from a matrix he had "aquired" and then invoked Daly, slaying the unfortunate victim dead instantly (who, incidentally, had the chaos feature od Explodes Upon Death and ended up burning down half of the Rawson Estate of Fiesieve). Ahhh, good times... >RU>CragSpider is a demigod, which I feel is substantially different from a >RU>Superhero, as if you get to Hero and choose to either become a Superhero or >RU>try and ascend into Godhood. > I don't recall the Dragon Pass game rating her that high. She is >definitely a force in Dragon Pass. I think its the GLoranthan Crucible that describes her as a demigod. >Someone argued in their Hero Quest rules that heroes are worshipped by >their followers; in effect they are already demi-gods. Having not >ascended to the God Plane, they could not yet be true gods. I define a Hero as anyone who receives worship from another being. Also, Heros also have Stars. Gods are those beings who have made a permanent mark on the Godplane so that they are now part of it. Gods CAN remain on the Mundane Plane, but as they are summoned to the Godplane to "defend" their position in the Godplane (example of involuntary HQing), eventually they leave so many "marks" that they spend ALL their time on the Godplane. All IMO, Nikk Nikk Effingham http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/7556/ "If absolute power corrupts absolutely, where does that leave God?" -- George Daacon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #74 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. 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