From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #92 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, May 5 1998 Volume 01 : Number 092 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] User Conditions Re: [RQ-RULES] average intelligence Re: [RQ-RULES] average intelligence [RQ-RULES] DMD - Beltar for RQ/Greyhawk Re: [RQ-RULES] User Conditions Re: [RQ-RULES] User Conditions [RQ-RULES] Magic types RE: [RQ-RULES] User Conditions [RQ-RULES] Treasure Tables (again) [RQ-RULES] average intelligence RE: [RQ-RULES] average intelligence RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:26:14 -0400 From: David Weihe Subject: [RQ-RULES] User Conditions Bob Stancliff: > > > If the conditions are general > > > enough, it is always possible to find a buyer even though they may have > > > to travel a long way to find one. Tal Meta: > > "Me or my familiars" is pretty restrictive. Stancliff: > That IS restrictive, and also pretty rare since most people intend to > leave a legacy. A common restriction is to family or religion (or > sect). It should be rare because it is hard to do. As the rules stand, it is hard to do user conditions less restrictive than "me, only" that don't take too much POW to make it sensible to Enchant them, in the first place. For instance, making an item work only for "members of my family" who are also "members of (my) cult (sect)" takes two points. Making it blood members, vs members by adoption or marriage as well, would cost yet another point, although weapons that work only for a given bloodline are quite familiar in literature. Any good ideas how this could be fixed? My only, fairly unformed, idea is that there could be a set of tables with various user conditions and their costs, for each type of magic. Thus, "members of my cult" might be easy (1 point or less) for Divine magic, fairly difficult for Sorcery (which doesn't care much about gods), and quite difficult for shamanistic rituals (since shamans can join Spirit cults and leave them comparatively easily "my cult" becomes all cults unless more effort is made to restrict it). Likewise, "members of my family" might be easy for shamanists (like Daka Fal), but quite hard for others. Also, perhaps there should be default user conditions for certain sources (like a CA Sleep matrix only working for Initiates unless it was specifically made to work for everybody). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 4 May 1998 19:29:25 EDT From: JULIAKIR Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] average intelligence In a message dated 98-05-04 17:47:28 EDT, you write: << In RQ3 or RQ4 or RQ:AiG, do you consider 13 to be the average intelligence of humans? Or does that just refer to the characters, rather than the general population? >> I always considered this to be the average intel for characters, with the general population having INT of 3d6 or 10-11. Leon Kirshtein *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 22:14:38 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] average intelligence Brad Furst wrote: > > In RQ3 or RQ4 or RQ:AiG, do you consider 13 to be the average intelligence > of humans? Or does that just refer to the characters, rather than the > general population? I've always used the existing characteristic spread as the standard for humans. However, I often note random regional/racial variations (i.e. folk from the Cayhill range have a SIZ 1d4 less than normal, while the Galarii plainsmen have a STR 1d6 higher than average (but not exceeding racial max). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 22:22:37 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] DMD - Beltar for RQ/Greyhawk Twenty-third in my series of Greyhawk gods in RQ format... (As I've already stated elsewhere, this conversion draws heavily on an earlier post by Rasgon (rasgon@aol.com). Rasgon cited Kyger Litor as an inspiration, but I thought she had more in common with Asrelia and Gorgorma....) BELTAR Runes: Chaos, Malign Earth, Darkness Beltar is the Deep Mother, Goddess of Deep Pits and Malice. Cult in the World Beltar is typically depicted as a great black wyrm with the head and torso of an aged crone. She is mainly worshipped by evil beings that shun the light, those who feel wronged by their societies, those who plot vengence, and those who horde wealth beneath the earth. Legends link her to many of the races of the Underworld, as well as to several different groupings of gods and goddesses. To the Suel, she is the daughter of Lendore and Syrul, and the mother of Wee Jas. Among Earth cultists, she is part another Trinity, where Beory rules the surface, Ulaa the hills and mountains, and Beltar rules the Underworld. She receives worship from a variety of other races as well, including various intelligent reptiles, particularly the nagas and the yuan-ti. To guard the treasures brought to honor her, her servants create undead horrors to toil endlessly in their defense. It is whispered that even her priests someday become the more powerful types of undead; vampires, mummies, even liches. Lay Membership Requirements: Lay members of Beltar's cult are known as the Guardians. In addition to serving as guides in the Underworld, they are charged with three directives: to bring wealth to the temples to be cached away, to aid in the construction of underground vaults in which to store it, and in the devising of traps to defend the vaults. Skills taught by the cult include: Fast Talk, Craft (Mining, Masonry, Locksmithing, Gemcutting, Jewelrymaking, etc.), Evaluate, Mineral Lore, World Lore, Conceal, Devise, Search, Hide, Sneak, Ceremony, and Dagger attack/parry. Initiate Membership Requirements: Standard. Initiates are generally referred to as The Lurkers Below. In addition to the standard acceptance rites, aspiring Initiates must have contributed their weight in gold and gems to the cult. Spirit Magic: Darkwall, Disruption, Hibernation, Mighty Blow, Mindspeech, Protection, Repair, Slow, Transfer Wound. Acolyte Membership Requirements: as per Priests. Beltari acolytes are generally referred to as the Outcasts. At this level of acceptance in the cult, members expect never to see the open sky again. Priesthood Requirements: Standard, plus he/she must have contributed five times their weight in gold or other valuables to the cult, as well having satisfied all other requiremements. Additionally, each year he must contribute the equivalent of 3000 silver to the cult to maintain his position. Beltar's priests are known as the Radiants. They dwell exclusively in the Underworld, contemplating the unearthly radiations present there. Priests are expected to have severed all ties that might cause them to venture to the surface again. Priests act as advisors to their flocks, helping people to make the most of their anger and resentment. Snakes roam Beltar's temples without restrictions, the largest and most strikingly colored being used for divinitory and sacrificial purposes (sacrificing TO the snake, not sacrificing the snake!). Virtues for Beltar include: Deceitful, Indulgent, Manipulative, Suspiscious, and Vengeful. Rune Lords Requirements: Standard. Beltar's Rune Lords are known as the Black Serpents. Unlike most of the higher ranks of Beltar's cult, the Black roam the Overworld, seeking out those who have wronged the Goddess or her people, and either bringing them back to the temple for sacrifice, or killing them in intriguing ways as an example for others. Common Divine Magic: all Special Divine Magic: Beltar's Cavern, Command (Gnome, Shade, Undead), Create (Ghoul, Liche, Mummy, Skeleton, Vampire, Zombie), Dark Walk, Hide Wealth, Second Mouth, Summon (Gnome, Shade), Waste Loins Spirit of Reprisal Yaseq: In the early days of the Suel empire, Yaseq was the High Priestess of Beltar in the caverns beneath the city of Ghuntuul. Well favored by her goddess, she is believed to have died and been reborn as a winged spirit naga in her Mother's service. She is charged with punishing those who seek to leave or betray the cult. Yaseq's stats: STR: 20 MV: 10 CON: 15 HP: 23 SIZ: 30 FP: 35 INT: 18 DB: 2d6 POW: 23 DEX: 19 APP: 8 Location d20 HP AP Tail 01-06 8 5 Abdomen 07-09 8 5 Chest 10-12 9 5 R Arm 13-14 6 5 L Arm 15-16 6 5 R Wing 17 6 3 L Wing 18 6 3 Head 19-20 8 5 LH Kukri 89%/92% 1d4+3+2d6 12AP RH Kukri 95%/99% 1d4+3+2d6 12AP Yaseq assaults her victims with a pair of kukris enchanted to ignore physical armor. Yaseq aims all blows at the abdomen, and if successful in reducing that location to 0 hp, the affected being suffers the permanent effects of both a Waste Loins spell and a Second Mouth spell (this affects males, as well). Associated Gods Syrul: provides Lie *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 21:48:08 -0500 From: Marc Robertson Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] User Conditions  

David Weihe wrote:

Bob Stancliff:
> > > If the conditions are general
> > > enough, it is always possible to find a buyer even though they may have
> > > to travel a long way to find one.
Tal Meta:
> > "Me or my familiars" is pretty restrictive.
Stancliff:
> That IS restrictive, and also pretty rare since most people intend to
> leave a legacy.  A common restriction is to family or religion (or
> sect).

It should be rare because it is hard to do. As the rules stand, it is
hard to do user conditions less restrictive than "me, only" that don't
take too much POW to make it sensible to Enchant them, in the first
place.  For instance, making an item work only for "members of my family"
who are also "members of (my) cult (sect)" takes two points. Making it
blood members, vs members by adoption or marriage as well, would
cost yet another point, although weapons that work only for a given
bloodline are quite familiar in literature.

Any good ideas how this could be fixed?
 

 My copy of the RQ3 rules( which is quite old, I got it when it was first published, so there may be an errata I don't know about ) states about user conditions( in the Magic Book, page 56) "Any number of people can be included in the group as long as the group is clearly identified" Since it is talking about a group to exclude you could phrase the exclusion as "anyone who is not a member of my family and not a member of my cult"  Of course, as a GM, if a player tried to get complicated with something like that, I would make them write down the condition, and then try to come up with a NPC that meets the letter of the condition, while violating the players intent.  That would encourage them to make the conditions less complex, even if it meant spending more POW

--
All opinions expressed are my own
----------------------------------------------------
Reach me by ICQ. My ICQ# is 11350250 or,
* Page me online :http://wwp.mirabilis.com/11350250 or,
* Send me E-mail Express 11350250@pager.mirabilis.com
For downloading ICQ at http://www.icq.com/
Marc Robertson
----------------------------------------------------
  *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 23:28:43 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] User Conditions David Weihe wrote: > > It should be rare because it is hard to do. As the rules stand, it is > hard to do user conditions less restrictive than "me, only" that don't > take too much POW to make it sensible to Enchant them, in the first > place. For instance, making an item work only for "members of my family" > who are also "members of (my) cult (sect)" takes two points. Making it > blood members, vs members by adoption or marriage as well, would > cost yet another point, although weapons that work only for a given > bloodline are quite familiar in literature. The trick remains, of course, how does the enchantment know the difference between a brother, and a brother-in-law? (And does the BiL count as "family"?) I'm leaning towards giving enchantments a "proto-sentience" based on the amount of POW in them, but that's just me. > My only, fairly unformed, idea is that there could be a set of tables > with various user conditions and their costs, for each type of magic. > Thus, "members of my cult" might be easy (1 point or less) for Divine > magic, fairly difficult for Sorcery (which doesn't care much about > gods), Gloranthan sorcerers are pretty clear on cults; put a Sedalpist and a Rokari in the same room, and see if they'll agree that they're members of different sects. IMC, insert school or guild for sects for sorcerers; same effect, really. > Also, perhaps there should be default user conditions for certain sources > (like a CA Sleep matrix only working for Initiates unless it was > specifically made to work for everybody). Interesting idea; I'll be thinking about that, too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 04 May 1998 23:05:27 -0500 From: "Michael A. Pastorello" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Magic types First off let me say I am not receiving all emails from the list. I get answers to stuff going past that i never got the original post to. Do not know if i should mention here, but am going to anyway. I have another question as I am delving into the mysteries of magic in Glorantha. Is just a quick I hope easy question. Divine Magic users are for the most part, sacrificing POW for a piece of the Gods will, is how I understand it. But anyway they are granted spells. Sorcerors reach into themselves and manipulate the environment around them using their personal power. My questions revolve around the spirit magic users. They gain their spells from spirits, but where did they come from originally? How did the spirits get the magic and how did it evolve? The others are easy, I just cannot come to a logical conclusion for the spirit magic form. If anyone can give me your pov's it would be appreciated.Thanks. Mike *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:37:56 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] User Conditions >The trick remains, of course, how does the enchantment know >the difference between a brother, and a brother-in-law? The same way it knows the difference between a brother and a Kralorelan, or a Broo, I suppose. Would a family restriction allow a Broo "offspring" to use the item? philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ A single death is a tragedy a million deaths are a statistic Josef Stalin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 10:55:31 +0200 From: Alain.RAMEAU@total.com (Alain RAMEAU) Subject: [RQ-RULES] Treasure Tables (again) I translated my Treasure Tables from French to English. They are now available (Word file to download) at : http://www.btinternet.com/~karamo/magitem.doc I hope their "how to use" is sufficiently self-explanatory. Alain. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 08:45:20 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] average intelligence RU>In RQ3 or RQ4 or RQ:AiG, do you consider 13 to be the average intelligence RU>of humans? Or does that just refer to the characters, rather than the RU>general population? In RQ2, INT was 3d6, which I consider to be species average. I consider PC's to be above average, as reflected by the 2d6+6. The same argument applies to SIZ, since pygmies exist, but their size is too low to roll. This is a referee opinion since the rules make no clear statements to say that 2d6+6 applies to ALL people, you could take the alternate view, but I like to keep some continuity with the older rules. It is a nice rule of thumb to say that IQ is INT x 10. Also it is easier to interpret stat losses if the stats can go closer to zero. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 13:47:08 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] average intelligence >In RQ3 or RQ4 or RQ:AiG, do you consider 13 to be the average intelligence >of humans? Or does that just refer to the characters, rather than the >general population? >In RQ2, INT was 3d6, which I consider to be species average. I >consider PC's to be above average, as reflected by the 2d6+6. The >same argument applies to SIZ, since pygmies exist, but their size is >too low to roll. In the Monsters book, (uk edition, I think it's mostly compiled from Monster Coliseum) it gives stats for "normal" humans, ie. not adventurers. They get siz and int of 2d6+6, with I think -2 str for females. It says that the gender difference is ignored for adventurers. Philip Hibbs Senior Analyst PC Development TNT UK Information Technology Atherstone *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #92 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. 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