From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #110 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Monday, June 8 1998 Volume 01 : Number 110 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Hero Wars/Runequest:Slayers RE: [RQ-RULES] Hero Wars/Runequest:Slayers Re: [RQ-RULES] SuperRuneQuest Re: [RQ-RULES] Hero Wars/Runequest:Slayers RE: [RQ-RULES] Hero Wars/Runequest:Slayers [RQ-RULES] Hello guys, How do i know HW draft? Re: [RQ-RULES] Hero Wars/Runequest:Slayers [RQ-RULES] D&D Magic in RQ RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 14:13:37 +0200 From: Alain.RAMEAU@total.com (Alain RAMEAU) Subject: [RQ-RULES] Hero Wars/Runequest:Slayers What about this list with the new Hero Wars game and Runequest:Slayer game ? On the glorantha-digest list, I have seen a summary of the new Hero Wars games, test-played during Gloranthan Con. While it is in a very basic status for the time being, it appears that the system will be more role-playing than simulationist. It appears also (as I understand it) that this new system will be more high-level character oriented, and will require a good knowledge of Glorantha. However, one interesting point, that should encourage us to go on with this list, is that one of the authors have suggested that, before using this new system, it would be possible to play beginners character with the former RQ3 rules, until they reach a good level and get a good knowledge of the Glorantha World. Does this mean that the new system could be somewhat compatible with RQ3 ? May be this system could take-over when the character reach 100% or more, as the RQ3 system is not necessarily adapted to those high-levels (but there is currently a discussion on that problem, if any, in this list). Concerning Runequest:Slayer, all I know is that it will probably not be compatible with RQ3. Does anybody has more informations on the rules system ? Alain __________ http://www.btinternet.com/~karamo/rq.htm __________ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 14:13:02 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Hero Wars/Runequest:Slayers >Concerning Runequest:Slayer, all I know is that it will probably >not be compatible with RQ3. Does anybody has more informations >on the rules system ? http://www.avalonhill.com/rqfaq.html philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. - William Blake *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 11:26:20 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] SuperRuneQuest Some of the previous message lines have been truncated by my mail program. RU>> ... Only special Heros are going to get the divine gifts to extend RU>> their life or train faster to exceed this basic limit. RU>Sure, but we *are* discussing HeroQuest here, not untweaked RQ.Experience an RU>improvement is a slight problem of such rules ... But what does Hero-Quest mean to you in terms of skill levels? Priests can hero-quest, and they rarely have combat skills over 100%, so clearly hero-questing is possible in the 75 - 200% range! This is an issue of scale more than anything else. You could have a perfectly believable "Battle of the Gods" with no one having a base skill over 500%, as long as the human's base is appropriately less than 300%. Everyone throws their spells, the combat characters (and gods) all increase their abilities proportionally and balance is maintained. At these lower relative levels, superior player action can have a real effect without requiring special rules for experience gains, training, or interpreting mythic actions. A priest could believably kill a dragon (KoS) and become a Hero in the process, and Yanafel could even get lucky and injure Humakt. There may have once been a point when the gods gained experience, but that was certainly before the Compromise. Characters who apotheosize get locked under the same restrictions of unchange. So there is another factor that can limit the assigned experience. Please don't pull out the "Elder Secrets" and point to the Greater Hydra or Mother of Monsters. Some of their attack percents come from sheer size... they have a hard time missing. Also, they date from the God Time and have almost 1600 years of experience in the world tacked onto their previous ability. These creatures are intended to kill heros and injure lesser gods. RU>Yeah, but Steve's system is too complicated. I have a Heroic success chance, RU>to 1% for every full 100% skill.(ie 100 - 199 % skill gives 1% chance for He RU>success. 200 - 299 % gives 2% etc.) This extends meaningfulness up to 10.000 RU>keeping the 2000% RQ threshold. Not for PCs, though. (sorry about being laco The SuperCrit is a 1/100 amount like your heroic success, but that doesn't automatically mean that something Should have a skill over 1000% just because you can mathematically invert the ratio! RU>> It would be more correct to say that 8th - 10th levels are about the RU>> same as Mastery or Rune Level, that is 90% - 120%! RU>Disagree. See description of Hero Wars system for convenient support of my 8th - 10th level is a competent and respected expert in his field who has taken several years to reach that level of proficiency. That very accurately describes a Priest or Rune Lord. They play with about the same feel of competency also. I intend to read the HW material at first chance. RU>> you can nearly do the same thing with a weapon master, a rune level, or RU>> a warrior over 70% who has plenty of spirit spell support. RU>> Example: SIZ 16 warrior with greatsword at 70% throws Coord 5 to... RU>OK, but I don't want to deal with such complications during play, although I RU>quite enjoy them when I was nineteen years old ... Have you given up running combat? Do you just abstract the results? Combat is easily half the game and this stuff is normal for combat. RU>> Peasant atk/par <30% and few spells RU>> Militia atk/par <50% and 1/2 INT spells RU>> Soldier atk/par <60% and INT spells w/crystal RU>> Veteran atk/par <70%, INT spells, 2 crystal, bound spirit RU>> Warrior atk/par <80%, INT spells, 3 crystal, 2 bound spirit RU>> Leader atk/par <90%, INT spells, 4 crystal, 3 bound spirit RU>> Master atk/par >90%, INT spells, 5 crystal, 4 bound spirit RU>> These are rough levels for establishing NPC's that will be RU>> appropriate to the world. (The magic is probably conservative) RU>Sounds illogical. Why would professional soldiery be without professional training RU>Realistically, they would, rather, be trained up to the vicinity of 75%. The RU>system demands this. You can of course fiddle about with these figures IYG. Most soldiers are not masters of their profession. In many ways the army is like the fast food business... you are constantly trying to train new recruits to keep up with normal attrition. Within any group you will have a few elite that do the training, a larger group of competents who get the bulk of the work done, and a huge group of people who are still learning their jobs. As recruiting systems go, Sun County is rather efficient: it gets the initial training done in the militia before the person ever becomes a soldier. Most of the men never make it into the army, they stay militia farmers all of their lives. Also notice that good spirit magic can temporarily raise your combat effectiveness by at least two levels. From the experience of my campaign, 15 year old characters will be on the break point between Peasant and Militia levels. After a year of regular play, they will be in the Soldier area. In another year they will be making Warrior level. This is the point at which players start to push for Acolyte status. In the third year you get several Leader types and the Rune Levels start to appear. We are in the fourth year and no one has enough masteries yet to make Rune Lord. Part of the reason that PC's advance so fast is that they always look for combat action. Soldiers, on the other hand spend a lot of time in barracks and drill, doing make-work and avoiding combat. They will get experience at an appreciably slower rate than constantly active fighters. I admit that my view of expected competence in the table is heavily biased by the officially published material. Lunar soldiers riding in the Rubble only have 40 - 70% weapons ("Pavis" & "Big Rubble"). Sun County Hoplites are listed in the 50 - 70% range ("Sun County"). I am willing to argue that these numbers are unrealistically low and are actually deflated from where they should be for the sake of providing encounters that new players can defeat if necessary, but some of these fighters are also described as 'elite'. It is clear to me that if a person does a job regularly and well for 10 years, then they will probably have mastered most of the tasks for their job. On the other hand, the masters are promoted for their abilities and become managers and trainers of others. RU>> I'm not sure Argrath was even a Hero by 1620, he was sailing around RU>> the Magasta Sea with Harrak then. You might try 200% base with some RU>> hero-questing gifts. RU>Naah. Harrek tries to KILL Argrath when he meets him circa 1620s, and _fails RU>p.something)Of course, all of this depends on the scope used ... I'm trying RU>the most logical one. A great-grandson (?) of Sartar (KoS) became a Rune Lord of Humakt at the age of 9 or 10 (very directed training from infancy). He formed the household of Death and took 'several' powerful gifts and geases. Two years later he and the Red Emporer kill each other in single combat. The emperor is supposed to be a hero, but was the kid? Or was he just a good Rune Lord with a few hero-questing abilities? Was he above his level, or are heros VERY good Rune Lords with some special abilities? This is an issue of scope and expectations. Harrek wasn't a hero before he killed his god and defeated it in spirit combat and possibly wasn't one until several years later, and Argrath was just a bar singer in 1610 (roughly) who became a sword trainer around 1614. Yet only 6 - 8 years later they are both respected leaders of large groups (Wolf Pirates & Brotherhood of the White Bull) when they meet after the cradle adventure. Notice that the fight isn't described in the same grand terms as their later fight on the Isle of Wonder in Holy Country. It is my opinion that Argrath was a Rune Lord and Acolyte who was HeroQuesting regularly at the time he met Harrek (who had probably just become a Hero). Somewhere in that time they did cross the line to Hero and I doubt it made a sudden and dramatic change to their abilities. I think that it is more logical to not inflate the skill levels of heroic characters to high values just to make them "Heros". This is the main reason I won't use any of the HeroQuest rules that deal with large skill divisors. The material that is not number based is flexible enough for any system scale. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) to: INT:runequest-rules@MPGN.COM cc: INT:lackey@gator.net INT:afn50803@afn.org toobear *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 17:31:17 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hero Wars/Runequest:Slayers > one interesting point, that should encourage us to go on with > this list, is that one of the authors have suggested that, before > using this new system, it would be possible to play beginners > character with the former RQ3 rules, until they reach a good level and > get a good knowledge of the Glorantha World. > Does this mean that the new system could be somewhat compatible with > RQ3 ? May be this system could take-over when the character reach 100% > or more, as the RQ3 system is not necessarily adapted to those > high-levels (but there is currently a discussion on that problem, if > any, in this list). Well, IMO (which is, I must emphasise, IM UNINFORMED O 'cos I ain't seen the game) Hero Wars will be about as compatible with RQ as Pendragon (Pass) is. The rest is unnecessary marketing, unnecessary at least for the Gloranthan fanatics on GD. I think what they mean is that RQ fanatics will be able to adapt from HW without *too* much hassle.Real RQ fanatics could probably adapt from *any* other game to RQ, of course ... > Concerning Runequest:Slayer, all I know is that it will probably not > be compatible with RQ3. That's what Avalon Hill says, but I'm at the very least hoping that some of RuneQuest:Slayers will be salvageable for use in Gloranthan RuneQuest. I'm also hoping that it'll be a version of RuneQuest more in line with Avalon Hill's philosophy as a gaming company, and publisher of ASL (which I don't play, but highly respect.) If RQ:S has moved a bit towards wargaming, then I'll be happy. This is V. likely a mere daydream, though. My real apprehension is that AH will fuck RQ up (again).If they really *have* made it incompatible with RQ3, then : where's their market ? answer : non-existent. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 16:40:46 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Hero Wars/Runequest:Slayers >where's their market ? answer : non-existent. Well, it isn't me, unless it's a good game system, which I doubt from what I've seen. Looks like another P&P. However, I think the market they are looking for is new roleplayers who don't want to play D&D, ore want to "mature" from D&D, and think "RuneQuest - I've heard that's the main fantasy competitor - let's try it". There isn't a direct genre competitor for D&D right now, so there is a niche to be occupied. RQ:S and HW are going to be in competition for that. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. - William Blake *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 9 Jun 1998 01:15:45 +0900 From: "Mamoru Kurihara" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Hello guys, How do i know HW draft? Hi, guys. I am a Japanese RQer/Glorantha phile. I heard Hero Wars test play in the last Convulsion. One test player reported it in Glorantha Digest, but I cannot imagine the real Hero Wars. Please let me know Hero Wars rules specific digest, if not bound by NDA. Regards. ----- Mamoru Kurihara aka 'storm mark' The Chaos Society Japan. http://www.din.or.jp/~storm/chaos/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 8 Jun 1998 12:31:22 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hero Wars/Runequest:Slayers RU>Well, IMO (which is, I must emphasise, IM UNINFORMED O 'cos I ain't seen th RU>game) Hero Wars will be about as compatible with RQ as Pendragon (Pass) is. RU>rest is unnecessary marketing, unnecessary at least for the Gloranthan fanat RU>on GD. I think what they mean is that RQ fanatics will be able to adapt from RU>without *too* much hassle.Real RQ fanatics could probably adapt from *any* RU>other game to RQ, of course ... I tend to agree, Glorantha can adapt to a wide variety of combat/game systems, most of us are just locked into some variant of BRP by habit. I actually toyed with the idea of running a DragonQuest variant in a post Hero Wars setting... most magic is sorcerous. RU>... This is V. likely a mere daydream, though. My real apprehension is that AH will RU>f. (please) RQ up (again).If they really *have* made it incompatible with RQ3, then RU>where's their market ? answer : non-existent. It is certain to not use RQ3 as a base, whether any of it can be salvaged is up to the creativity of gm's. Their market is about the same as D&D or Space Hulk... High School and College age, creative and bored, well educated, but eccentric! The company will try to put it into a market against the likes of Werewolf or Vampire... personally, I don't think it has a chance. The saddest aspect of all of this is that the game we know and play is now totally unsupported. It will take 5 - 8 years to die out, but it is now just a collectors item (well worn)! Both companies are trying to deliver a simpler, more streamlined game in the modern style of dreck. I will certainly buy the new games to study for ideas, but I'm not going to jump to convert over right away. After fighting so hard to keep rights to the name RuneQuest, AH threw the game away. Slayers is not RuneQuest, although the new game promises to focus more on the acquisition and use of Runic power. Role Playing games are now entering the second generation of gamer... the babies born to the first D&D marriages are in High School and College. Maybe that explains why Live Action is growing. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 09:33:46 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: [RQ-RULES] D&D Magic in RQ All the recent talk of new systems got me thinking back to what I have been playing around with in the past several years. Let me explain: I have played several kinds of HeroQuests; those which are performed entirely in Glorantha, on the mundane plane; those which take place on the Hero/Spirit/Hell plane; and those which allow players to cross over into over worlds; or a combination of any and all of these. Depending on the world the players enter I have been using a number of magic systems for the NPC's inorder to vary the flavor and add a sense of uncertainty to the feel of the game. Ofcourse certain magic systems, such as from Young Kingdoms, converts very nicely and is easy to incorporate into the game. Others like D&D and Role Master are not so simple. Most of the time it does not matter since I can twick the results and have to explain how it is done to the players. The problem, or the challenge, is to make it workable and not over balancing while letting the players some type of access to some of this magic by ways of spell scrolls for the example or even possibly letting them learn some if by studing under the right teacher. I would like to focus on D&D magic specificly since it is the one I use most and would like to hear peoples opinions on the topic. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #110 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.