From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #125 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, July 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 125 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] discussion Re: [RQ-RULES] Red Vadeli Blood Sorcery Re: [RQ-RULES] Red Vadeli Blood Sorcery Re: [RQ-RULES] Red Vadeli Blood Sorcery Re: [RQ-RULES] discussion RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 11 Jul 1998 11:51:56 +0100 From: Stephen Watson Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] discussion In that finely crafted message stancliff@commnections.com pontificated: > RU>In that finely crafted message > <199807061931.MAA25412@smtp5.teleport.com> RU> Brad Furst > pontificated: > RU>> except that Rune Lords are > RU>> allowed to resist with their full POWer. > > RU>Where does it say that?! > > As I recall, certain large cults (troll?) get this as a special > ability. It is not in the generic rules for all Rune Lords, but it is > not a bad idea to give Rune Lords some special ability to go with their > status. I prefer to give them priest-like access to the cults combat spells. - -- Stephen Watson - http://www.kerofin.demon.co.uk/ - Glorantha & RISC OS *dG = J dF = 0 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 10:43:39 +0100 From: Nikk Effingham Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Red Vadeli Blood Sorcery >Blood Magic > > The Vadeli Art of Blood Magic is generally only taught to Red >Vadeli, and then only to those who have reached Adept status by >their own efforts. Out pf interest, who has the monopoly on the Blood magic? In other words, do the Vadeli have a political or religious institution that controls the magic style? If not, then it must only be known by individual Vadeli, and the question arises why such a sorceror would wish to spend their time teaching it to a lower subordinate. I can see many tales of wars being fought over the knowledge... > Blood Magic is in many ways a technique of spell casting; and >as such the sorcerer may have to relearn spells he already knows >in order to take advantage of this Art. If the caster knows >Evoke Fire at 67% and wants to be able to cast the spell using >Blood Magic, he will have to relearn the spell (base chance >equals current skill / 2, or 34% in this case) before he can use >it with Blood Magic. It is possible to know the Blood version of >a spell at a higher % than the traditional form. I like the basic premise of reduction in spell casting chances when using this new form of magic. However, if you used it like this your character sheet (or NPC record sheet) would be horrendously complicated. I think that using the Dagger skill as the maximum cap on casting chances will suffice instead of this. Plus, loosing 30% in the chance to cast a spell reduces maximum manipulation by three, but as Blood magic gives you an extra 7-8 levels of manipulation easily it defeats the object. If I felt compelled to limit casting chances, rather than using this method, I'd say that maximum manipulation was figured out by dividing casting chance by twenty rather than by ten, this reduces the power of the spell without making the system too complicated. > Blood Magic requires two components. > First, the sorcerer must enchant a dagger or other edged weapon >using the Bloodblade enchantment ritual (see below). This blade >is a permanent "material component" for all subsequent spells >the sorcerer will cast using Blood Magic. The sorcerer's skill >in Blood Magic can never exceed his skill with the weapon in >question; an existing Dagger skill of 35% will serve as the cap >on the sorcerer's skill in Blood Magic, as well. I like this a lot. Very... Vadeli-ish. > The damage inflicted by the wound is added to the Art levels of >the spell being cast in whatever way the sorcerer chooses. > [Example: Shazrak the sorcerer cuts his bound slave in the arm >while casting a protective spell. The knife cuts the slave's arm >for 4 points, which gives Shazrak 4 additional points of Art >(Intensity, Force, Multispell, etc.) to add to the spell in >question.] Excellent, very simple, powerful and totally unfair to the PC's. As if I'd let a PC get their hands on this power : ) > If the donor is loses ALL his hitpoints as the result of a >single blow (uncommon, but happens occasionally), half his POW >is added to the Art levels gained by the caster, and a Blood >Spirit is formed by the remaining POW of the victim. To lose all of their Hit Points in one blow is surely impossible. Locational damage prevents this, striking an arm might take off the arm, but as the location has a maximum amount of damage it can take it is impossible for the character to lose all their hit points. What would be better would be if it just kills the character then a blood spirit is formed etc.... while some Vadeli would wander around with slaves with only 3 hit points left to ensure the next blow kills them, the added danger of Blood Spirits makes this dangerous. Also, surely a simple Boost Damage would greatly increase the effectiveness of the Blood magic, of course, this means the sorceror would be unable to use the weapon on themselves if they were forced to donate blood themselves (Bob the Evil Vadeli uses his wepaon on himself to defeat the dragon he faces, inflicts minimum damage from his damage boosted dagger and promptly slumps to the floor after taking 14 hit points to the chest...) >Blood Spirits > Blood Spirits are a kind of ghost formed when Blood Magic kills >a donor. Unlike normal ghosts, Blood Spirits form with a POW >equal to (half the original POW of the victim)d4. So in the >above example, Genrezel would be facing a Blood Spirit with a >POW of 6d4. Like ghosts, they manifest as a scarlet haze, and >attack the sorcerer who slew them in spirit combat. If >victorious, they generally possess the sorcerer's body and kill >themselves. > However, if defeated, the Blood Spirit owes the sorcerer one >final service (blood spirits, unlike ghosts, cannot be bound). >Once that service is complete, they are free to persue whatever >course the afterlife has in store for them. I don't like the last paragraph, I think Blood Spirits should just be a nuisance through and through, serving no possible useful purpose. Also, do they form if the sorceror fumbles their spell casting roll? An added danger of Blood Magic? All in all I liked it, powerful, deadly and dangerous. It makes the Vadeli a fearsome people. All IMHO, Nikk _______________________________________________________ Nikk Effingham E-mail: nikk@MailAndNews.com WWW: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/7556/ "If absolute power corrupts absolutely where does that leave god?" --George Daacon _______________________________________________________ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:54:48 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Red Vadeli Blood Sorcery Nikk Effingham wrote: > > Out pf interest, who has the monopoly on the Blood magic? In other words, > do the Vadeli have a political or religious institution that controls the > magic style? If not, then it must only be known by individual Vadeli, and > the question arises why such a sorceror would wish to spend their time > teaching it to a lower subordinate. I can see many tales of wars being > fought over the knowledge... I think it highly unlikely that the Vadeli havr anything resembling a religious structure (what little I do know of them says they're athiests, at the very least). While the idea of them fighting one another to learn the secrets of it appeals to me, I could be just as happy if they learned it from demons, or had a structured magical academy that would teach the rituals for a sufficient bribe. > I like the basic premise of reduction in spell casting chances when using > this new form of magic. However, if you used it like this your character > sheet (or NPC record sheet) would be horrendously complicated. I think that > using the Dagger skill as the maximum cap on casting chances will suffice > instead of this. Plus, loosing 30% in the chance to cast a spell reduces > maximum manipulation by three, but as Blood magic gives you an extra 7-8 > levels of manipulation easily it defeats the object. If I felt compelled to > limit casting chances, rather than using this method, I'd say that maximum > manipulation was figured out by dividing casting chance by twenty rather > than by ten, this reduces the power of the spell without making the system > too complicated. It's a balancing act, to be sure. It doesn't serve any purpose if it doesn't provide a benefit (i.e. more power for the spell), but at the same time I didn't want to make it overpowering, either. Limiting it to dagger skill is part of it anyway, but then you'd have to enforce DEXx3 limits on weapon skills, especially for these guys. > Excellent, very simple, powerful and totally unfair to the PC's. As if I'd > let a PC get their hands on this power : ) Neither would I. Oh, I might let them chase rumors of books purporting to teach it... :) > To lose all of their Hit Points in one blow is surely impossible. Well... IMG the hit point system I use is closer to Elric! style; hit locations only get rolled to determine armor coverage, and a "major wound" severs/incapacitiates whatever limb is hit. > Also, surely a simple Boost Damage would greatly increase the effectiveness > of the Blood magic, of course, this means the sorceror would be unable to > use the weapon on themselves if they were forced to donate blood themselves > (Bob the Evil Vadeli uses his wepaon on himself to defeat the dragon he > faces, inflicts minimum damage from his damage boosted dagger and promptly > slumps to the floor after taking 14 hit points to the chest...) Ah; gotta change Bloodblade so Damage Boost (and other weapon enhancing spells) won't affect it. Forgot that bit. > I don't like the last paragraph, I think Blood Spirits should just be a > nuisance through and through, serving no possible useful purpose. Also, do > they form if the sorceror fumbles their spell casting roll? An added danger > of Blood Magic? On a fumble, I'd say he hits himself. But, I suppose I agree about that last ppg too. > All in all I liked it, powerful, deadly and dangerous. It makes the Vadeli > a fearsome people. Still needs some tinkering, but I figured I'd share. :) - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 TANJ Lives! - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 15:35:47 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Red Vadeli Blood Sorcery Tal Meta Nikk and Effingham: To start with, the alternative system is great, and is just the sort of thing which should be done more often with RQ magic. That Sandy's system makes this so easy, is one of the reasons why it's so damned good. Bravo ! > > Out pf interest, who has the monopoly on the Blood magic? In other words, > > do the Vadeli have a political or religious institution that controls the > > magic style? If not, then it must only be known by individual Vadeli, and > > the question arises why such a sorceror would wish to spend their time > > teaching it to a lower subordinate. I can see many tales of wars being > > fought over the knowledge... > > I think it highly unlikely that the Vadeli havr anything resembling a > religious structure (what little I do know of them says they're > athiests, at the very least). While the idea of them fighting one > another to learn the secrets of it appeals to me, I could be just as > happy if they learned it from demons, or had a structured magical > academy that would teach the rituals for a sufficient bribe. A style of magic is quasi-religious in nature, surely? Not to say that this particular quasi-religion might not involve backstabbing, self-abasement, seeking blood for the Magus, donating one's own blood in the (potentially fatal) initiation ceremony, murder, demons, theft, quests of revenge, Werblud, self-mutilation, and secret magic ... > > I like the basic premise of reduction in spell casting chances when using > > this new form of magic. Yeah so do I. A cool new metamagic rule: when learning a new style, divide previous skills by 2. Great ! > > However, if you used it like this your character > > sheet (or NPC record sheet) would be horrendously complicated. Disagree. I think that a sorceror should only have ONE High Vow/Vessel ensemble at a time. I mean, it IS possible, I think, to know several different styles of magic, but not without cutting up one's soul, and Presence, into several fairly ineffective little pieces. Except for spirit magic, that is. Forgetting the old style should surely be the first prerequisite for learning a new one? > > I think that > > using the Dagger skill as the maximum cap on casting chances will suffice > > instead of this. Plus, loosing 30% in the chance to cast a spell reduces > > maximum manipulation by three, but as Blood magic gives you an extra 7-8 > > levels of manipulation easily it defeats the object. If I felt compelled to > > limit casting chances, rather than using this method, I'd say that maximum > > manipulation was figured out by dividing casting chance by twenty rather > > than by ten, this reduces the power of the spell without making the system > > too complicated. > > It's a balancing act, to be sure. It doesn't serve any purpose if it > doesn't provide a benefit (i.e. more power for the spell), but at the > same time I didn't want to make it overpowering, either. Limiting it to > dagger skill is part of it anyway, but then you'd have to enforce DEXx3 > limits on weapon skills, especially for these guys. This would depend on what kind of game balance you're after, IMO.GoG got rid of these DEX limits to skills, for Gloranthan RuneMasters. Limiting it to dagger skill is fine; from all POVs. > > Excellent, very simple, powerful and totally unfair to the PC's. As if I'd > > let a PC get their hands on this power : ) > > Neither would I. Oh, I might let them chase rumors of books purporting > to teach it... :) > > > To lose all of their Hit Points in one blow is surely impossible. > > Well... IMG the hit point system I use is closer to Elric! style; hit > locations only get rolled to determine armor coverage, and a "major > wound" severs/incapacitiates whatever limb is hit. Also not impossible if the victim is already wounded ! Plus, I think that the basic style should be centered on a blood-letting ritual, rather, using RQ bleeding rules, although the use of this style in combat situations should *also* be possible, as described. > > Also, surely a simple Boost Damage would greatly increase the effectiveness > > of the Blood magic, of course, this means the sorceror would be unable to > > use the weapon on themselves if they were forced to donate blood themselves > > (Bob the Evil Vadeli uses his wepaon on himself to defeat the dragon he > > faces, inflicts minimum damage from his damage boosted dagger and promptly > > slumps to the floor after taking 14 hit points to the chest...) > > Ah; gotta change Bloodblade so Damage Boost (and other weapon enhancing > spells) won't affect it. Forgot that bit. I don't think so. Surely, the source of Magic is the blood let out, not damage done? :-) Similarly, big and burly Vadeli are better magicians than thin and emaciated ones ... Link with the RQ bleeding rules, instead? Also, shouldn't it be impossible to heal damage from the Blood Ritual, except through natural healing? > > I don't like the last paragraph, I think Blood Spirits should just be a > > nuisance through and through, serving no possible useful purpose. Also, do > > they form if the sorceror fumbles their spell casting roll? An added danger > > of Blood Magic? > > On a fumble, I'd say he hits himself. But, I suppose I agree about that > last ppg too. I don't like it either. Although there must be a Dominate Blood Spirit spell available ...It might be possible to bind them, too, in a suitably prepared (ie exsanguinated) corpse ... > > All in all I liked it, powerful, deadly and dangerous. It makes the Vadeli > > a fearsome people. > > Still needs some tinkering, but I figured I'd share. :) Thanks, it's excellent ! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Jul 1998 13:00:28 -0700 (PDT) From: jarold davis Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] discussion >RU>In that finely crafted message <199807061931.MAA25412@smtp5.teleport.com> >RU> Brad Furst pontificated: >RU>> The official (published by Chaosium or Avalon HIll) rules use current >RU>> Magic Points to resist incoming magic, except that Rune Lords are >RU>> allowed to resist with their full POWer. > >RU>Where does it say that?! > > As I recall, certain large cults (troll?) get this as a special >ability. It is not in the generic rules for all Rune Lords, but it is >not a bad idea to give Rune Lords some special ability to go with their >status. > >Bob Stancliff From what I remember of RQ2, Rune Lords defended magically with their full POW stat, even if they'd cast spirit/battle magic spells to deplete POW, since MP weren't used in RQ2. I read an RQ4 summary in an old RQ rules digest(circa '95 or so) that Rune Lords would defend with POW, attack with MP. So, what does this all mean? Heckfire, use what works for your campaign! I prefer that Rune Lords get the RQ2/RQ4 perk of defending with POW, regardless of their MP. Dont have the RQ3 rules in front of me, so don't remember what RQ3 says about Rune Lords and magic defense. As for discussing other related games, Elric! has been fused with RQ3.893!?*.32 (etc., etc.) by several people in the list, so I can see a case for Elric!/RQ variants. JD *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #125 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.