From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #137 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Friday, August 7 1998 Volume 01 : Number 137 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Temple of Heads Re: [RQ-RULES] A possibly significant development RE: [RQ-RULES] A possibly significant development [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro Re: [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro RE: [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro RE: [RQ-RULES] A possibly significant development [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro RE: [RQ-RULES] A possibly significant development RE: [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro RE: [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro Re: [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro RE: [RQ-RULES] Greyhawk's gods [RQ-RULES] The Future of RuneQuest [RQ-RULES] Hasbro Re: [RQ-RULES] The Future of RuneQuest RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 22:36:45 EDT From: JULIAKIR@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Temple of Heads This is the list of things I have for the Temple of Heads, so far: Type Name Author Area Above Ground Tal Meta Area The Black Pit Tal Meta Area The Cooking Pit Tal Meta Area The Grand Hall Tal Meta Area The Latrine Tal Meta Area Main Temple Group Description Head Guard and Coven Sorcerors Character - Sorcerer, Doomed Bertchall Nick Effingham Character - Chief Healer, Doomed Cassifopia Leon Kirshtein Character - Doom Seeker The Commune Leon Kirshtein Character - Chief Cook, Doom seeker Damask Tal Meta Character - Doom Seeker Goran Vak Tal Meta Character - Doom Seeker Saragon Leon Kirshtein Character - Doom Lord of Than Sorusk Tal Meta Character - Doom Seeker Sta'Tulak Leon Kirshtein Character - Doomed Ventor Tal Meta Character - High Priest of Dark Truths Kath Nick Effingham History History Nick Effingham Spell *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 08:39:06 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] A possibly significant development RU>> >Well, now and where does that leave the intellectual property of RQ? RU>> Surely it's obvious, Hasbro now owns it. RU>Possession is 9/10ths of the law. In this case, possession is whoever publis RU>it. (Although possession of the trademark itself is a simpler matter) RU>Actually, what I'm wondering is : Will RQ:S actually be published at all? I'm guessing it just died a hideous death. This is the time for an offer to be made to regain the RuneQuest name and revert control to the creator or the fans. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:41:55 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] A possibly significant development > I'm guessing it just died a hideous death. This is the time for >an offer to be made to regain the RuneQuest name and revert >control to the creator or the fans. I doubt whether Issaries Inc. want competition between Hero Wars and RuneQuest. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman, Sandman *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 14:42:02 +0200 From: Alain.RAMEAU@total.com (Alain RAMEAU) Subject: [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro If that information is true, may be this could be interesting for 'Runequest in Glorantha' fans. Hasbro is not known as a RPG company, and I don't think they have acquired AH to become one (I think the value of AH is its Board Games/Wargames stuff). So may be Hasbro would be ready to get rid, at a cheap price, of the Runequest name and related stuff ? Chaosium could make an offer ? Just a dream ... Alain. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:26:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Bestwick Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro If we want somebody to purchase Runequest from Hasbro, there has to be some commercial reason to do this. Perhaps fully playtesting RQIV by people subscribing to the list would give a marketable product. If this were done then there would be a marketable product just waiting to be published ? There is plenty of material published on the web, perhaps the buyers could approach the authors about publishing some of it. Any comments Paul Bestwick _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:32:55 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro >There is plenty of material published on the web, perhaps >the buyers could approach the authors about publishing some >of it. Any comments Dream on! philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman, Sandman *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:55:18 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] A possibly significant development RU>> I'm guessing it just died a hideous death. This is the time for RU>>an offer to be made to regain the RuneQuest name and revert RU>>control to the creator or the fans. RU>I doubt whether Issaries Inc. want competition between Hero Wars and RU>RuneQuest. While you may be right, I don't see that they operate at the same power levels. Hero Wars is much more appropriate for advanced initiates and cult leaders, it has little to do with teenagers starting out in life. Hero Wars also seems to take a wider view, especially of time and politics. Rune Quest deals with minutia, the only serious complaint regarding the system, and it's greatest strength. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 10:59:04 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro RU> Hasbro is not known as a RPG company, and I don't think they have RU> acquired AH to become one (I think the value of AH is its Board RU> Games/Wargames stuff). Supposedly they will set up a division for board games, they might actually want RQ, though I don't see that as a big item for them, AH has several more popular games. RU> So maybe Hasbro would be ready to get rid, at a cheap price, of the RU> Runequest name and related stuff ? Chaosium could make an offer ? RU> Just a dream ... Most of us share the dream. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 15:54:13 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] A possibly significant development >Hero Wars also seems to take a wider view, especially of time >and politics. Rune Quest deals with minutia, the only serious >complaint regarding the system, and it's greatest strength. That's all quite true, but it still would not make economic sense for Issaries Inc. to have Hero Wars and RuneQuest both in print alongside each other. I don't think any other options (such as releasing RQ into the public domain) are practical either. Unfortunately. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman, Sandman *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 07:53:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Bestwick Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro - ---"Hibbs, Philip" wrote: > >There is plenty of material published on the web, perhaps > >the buyers could approach the authors about publishing some > >of it. Any comments > > Dream on! > Then again, the company who bought RQ could spend its money on hiring staff or commissioning new work, with all of the time delays that involves, before any material gets to the playtest phase. It depends on which you think is the cheaper option. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 16:01:14 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro >> Dream on! >> >Then again, the company who bought RQ could spend its money on >hiring staff or commissioning new work, with all of the time delays >that involves, before any material gets to the playtest phase. It >depends on which you think is the cheaper option. I haven't seen anything on the web that constitutes a coherent set of rules that could be typeset, bound and sold as they are. Have I missed something? philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman, Sandman *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 12:02:14 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Avalon Hill/Hasbro Alain RAMEAU wrote: > > If that information is true, may be this could be interesting for > 'Runequest in Glorantha' fans. > Hasbro is not known as a RPG company, and I don't think they have > acquired AH to become one (I think the value of AH is its Board > Games/Wargames stuff). > So may be Hasbro would be ready to get rid, at a cheap price, of the > Runequest name and related stuff ? Chaosium could make an offer ? If nothing else, Hasbro might, if inundated with concise and well thought out arguments, revive RQ3 (or some variant thereof) in at least it's Fantasy Earth incarnation. RQ is unlikely to maintain a Glorantha license with HW on the table, but there's no reason we couldn't get a new gameworld, or further supplements in Fantasy Earth (I'd love to see Aztecs, Congo, or Australian Dreamtime, myself). consumer_support@hasbro.com seems to be the best address for that purpose. Can't hurt, and it might even work! - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 TANJ Lives! - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:26:06 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Greyhawk's gods >However, you mention for each god some new spells >which, I suppose, are AD&D spells ... >Any intent to convert them also into RQ format, with some details? On this subject, has anybody got any feedback about the rules system that I knocked up for simulating DnD magic in RuneQuest? philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk or phibbs@compuserve.com http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman, Sandman *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 20:12:59 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: [RQ-RULES] The Future of RuneQuest Philip Hibbs: > >> Dream on! > >> > >Then again, the company who bought RQ could spend its money on > >hiring staff or commissioning new work, with all of the time delays > >that involves, before any material gets to the playtest phase. It > >depends on which you think is the cheaper option. > > I haven't seen anything on the web that constitutes a coherent set of rules > that could be typeset, bound and sold as they are. Have I missed something? Don't think so. I sort of doubt Hasbro will be interested in doing RQ, actually. I mean, they just terminated the AH people involved in the RQ project, didn't they? (Hey, maybe all that pagan black magic book-burning, and ritual cursing of AH at Bacharach and Convulsion actually worked? My God ... we're *all* going to go to Hell when we die, for this ... ) Anyway, I don't think that the central issue is whether or not some game company will do us the service of assembling a new standard for the future of our cult RPG. *We* are the future of RQ as we know it, with all that this entails. Eventually we will need some kind of new standard, because neither RQ2, nor RQ3, nor RQ4, nor Elric! really works in this respect. A new standard for RQ will almost certainly have to be based on HW and Issaries' Glorantha publications, simply because the majority of those who will continue to use the RQ system will also continue to use Glorantha. HW, from what I've seen of it, is also a superlative RPG product. And, we should continue our wholehearted support for Greg's writing! But, such a hypothetical new standard would probably have to be a simple set of rules not attached to any specific game world IMO. It should be entirely new text, and use no recognized trademark (unless one could somehow get legal use of the RQ tm). A new standard would need a level of simplicity and elegance somewhere in between HW and RQ2, but also have the razor sharp accuracy of simulation that RQ3 attempted (with some success). It should be conservative enough that peoples' home-brews are also welcome in the bar. It should incorporate and improve upon the qualites of PDP. It should have rules-lite stuff for extra-adventuring activities; social responsability, raising the family, keeping the stead, doing the day job, serving one's ritual obligations, religious activity, ritual magic, love, death, time, history, and war. *Very* rules-lite stuff! It should keep some of the RQ4 fixes of RQ3, as well as some of the better fixes done elsewhere. There should be fewer, and easier rules. It should be an internet publication, and be regularly updated. Just my two clacks ... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Aug 1998 21:58:40 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: [RQ-RULES] Hasbro Shannon Appel : > To be blunt: RuneQuest is a dead system. It doesn't generate enough > sales to support a game line. Chaosium likely could not have published > the last 5-10 supplements that Avalon Hill did because we would have > lost money. From my understanding Avalon Hill only could because they > needed to keep the printing presses running (which they own, you > understand). The printing presses! Of course! THAT'S what Hasbro was after! RuneQuest:Slayers is DEAD! DEAD!! DEAD!!! Yippee !! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 21:39:44 +0100 From: Michael Cule Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The Future of RuneQuest In message <35C9F22B.B93CD335@hol.fr>, Julian Lord writes, well, a lot of good stuff about keeping RQ alive. But I don't think it likely to happen..... Thing is that while the NAME RQ is currently owned by Hasbro as is the rapidly decaying corpse of RQ-SLAYERS, the SYSTEM is owned by CHAOSIUM and I can't see that we could produce a new RQ without infringing on their rights. Now if Chaosium were to say: OK fellas we release the rights to the words that made up RQ3 (and RQ4 too please!) as long as they aren't put into a commercially produced product then all would be fine. But they would have to be bonkers to do this. They want lots and lots of sales of HW and anything that competes with HW they have to discourage. Shannon Appel just posted on the Gloranthan list: >> So may be Hasbro would be ready to get rid, at a cheap price, of >> the Runequest name and related stuff ? Chaosium could make an >> >> offer ? > That won't happen. > To be blunt: RuneQuest is a dead system. It doesn't generate enough > sales to support a game line. Chaosium likely could not have published > the last 5-10 supplements that Avalon Hill did because we would have > lost money. From my understanding Avalon Hill only could because they > needed to keep the printing presses running (which they own, you > understand). > If Glorantha were tied to RuneQuest it would be dead too. The whole > idea behind Hero Wars is to create a new game that will be more > accessible, enjoyable, and innovative, and thus be able to actually > support a game line, and so Glorantha. I think it would be a smart thing for Chaosium to do to release the rights to RQ but frankly I think that the legal position is a damn mess and likely to take money to sort out. I don't believe there exists a consortium of RQ fans willing to invest the money it would take to sort things out (though I promise to try if I win the Lottery this Saturday). Chaosium currently have other things to do with their money. >I sort of doubt Hasbro will be interested in doing RQ, actually. I mean, they >just terminated the AH people involved in the RQ project, didn't they? (Hey, >maybe all that pagan black magic book-burning, and ritual cursing of AH at >Bacharach and Convulsion actually worked? My God ... we're *all* going to go to >Hell when we die, for this ... ) Speak for yourself Julian! > >Anyway, I don't think that the central issue is whether or not some game >company will do us the service of assembling a new standard for the future of >our cult RPG. *We* are the future of RQ as we know it, with all that this >entails. Eventually we will need some kind of new standard, because neither >RQ2, nor RQ3, nor RQ4, nor Elric! really works in this respect. I don't think that RQ is unfixable. And I'd really like to have seen RQ:AiG..... >A new standard >for RQ will almost certainly have to be based on HW and Issaries' Glorantha >publications, simply because the majority of those who will continue to use the >RQ system will also continue to use Glorantha. HW, from what I've seen of it, >is also a superlative RPG product. And, we should continue our wholehearted >support for Greg's writing! > >But, such a hypothetical new standard would probably have to be a simple set of >rules not attached to any specific game world IMO. Well yes, that would be the smart way to go. > >It should be entirely new text, and use no recognized trademark (unless one >could somehow get legal use of the RQ tm). I don't think it can be done. All right the rules aren't copyright, the words are. But renaming all the game mechanics? No, no.... > >A new standard would need a level of simplicity and elegance somewhere in >between HW and RQ2, but also have the razor sharp accuracy of simulation that >RQ3 attempted (with some success). It should be conservative enough that >peoples' home-brews are also welcome in the bar. It should incorporate and >improve upon the qualites of PDP. It should have rules-lite stuff for >extra-adventuring activities; social responsability, raising the family, >keeping the stead, doing the day job, serving one's ritual obligations, >religious activity, ritual magic, love, death, time, history, and war. *Very* >rules-lite stuff! It should keep some of the RQ4 fixes of RQ3, as well as some >of the better fixes done elsewhere. There should be fewer, and easier rules. > >It should be an internet publication, and be regularly updated. - -- Michael Cule *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #137 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.