From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #147 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, August 26 1998 Volume 01 : Number 147 RuneQuest is a trademark of Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Active Spell Re: [RQ-RULES] A few Sorcery Revisions Re: [RQ-RULES] Language [RQ-RULES] DMD - Aerdrie Faenya for RQ/Greyhawk Re: [RQ-RULES] Language Re: [RQ-RULES] Language Re: [RQ-RULES] Language Re: [RQ-RULES] Language --> Skill Modifiers Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill Modifiers Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill Modifiers RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:39:16 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Active Spell stancliff@commnections.com wrote: > > RU>No, because this would essentially turn the Active spell into a Passive one. > RU>So, No, except for some competent RuneMasters, who are variously allowed to > RU>this to some degree. > Only sorcery and spirit magic have active spells (as I recall). > Concentration must be continuous by the caster (with the exception of > Dark/Light-wall). IIRC, an active spell is only "active" while the user concentrates on it, but he can switch his concentration on and off until the spell expires. Transient spells, on the other hand, evaporate once the user ceases concentrating on them. - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 TANJ Lives! - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 17:44:51 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] A few Sorcery Revisions Michael Cule wrote: > > TAP > Tap now yields only MPs but if TAP POW is multispelled with an Enchant > Spell the Tapper can transfer the Tapee's POW to power the Enchantment. > This is a vile and disgusting practice and utterly forbidden by all > right-thinking sorcerers. Now this is particularly evil. I like it. Of course, some folks play that you can order a bound spirit who knows the ritual in question to expend it's own POW for you (published sources back this up, too). But I actually like this better than that. :) - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 TANJ Lives! - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 23:41:46 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Language A great post from Bob Stancliff on languages and RQ skills paradigms! Thanx !! But one small quibble : > The base of 30% for speak own represented an unschooled teenage > peasant with no advanced command of language. The category modifier was > expected to be positive and to raise this several percent. RQ4 came > back and said that this was too strict and changed it to INT x 4... a > smart peasant might naturally know the language much better than his > associates (this is very debatable). The experience tables gave more > 'Speak Own' to groups that were considered educated. Most Gloranthans actually have some obscure dialect as their mother tongue, though. A typical starting orlanthi PC ought, IMO, to have mastered the dialect of his clan, but be merely fluent in the local language, in Sartar : Sartarite. Lots would depend on his background. Wealthy Boldhomers might, unusually, have Sartarite for a mother tongue, instead of some obscure clan dialect. This would be rare. Anyway, I think now that about 50% as a starting skill in the locally important language is probably about right for most characters. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Aug 1998 18:37:47 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] DMD - Aerdrie Faenya for RQ/Greyhawk Gods of the Elves.... AERDRIE FAENYA Runes: Air, Fertility, Moon Aerdrie Faenya is the olven deity of Air and Weather. Cult in the World Aerdrie is the Rain Bringer, Patroness of Fertility, and Lady of the Skies. "She" is mainly concerned with maintaining good relations among olvenkind and their aerial allies, such as giant eagles, winged folk, or the aarakroca. She is also the patron of musicians (specifically wind instruments), and Ye'Cind was one of her mortal daughters. Aerdrie celebrates the 4th of Yellowillow as her High Holy Day, with lesser services every Godsday. Services are typically conducted outdoors, generally in temples constructed at the highest local point (the branches of the tallest tree preferred). Aerdrie's priests wear fluttering, gauzy garments of blue, green, yellow, and white. Lay Membership Requirements: Aerdrie is mainly worshipped by olves who love music or flight, as well as anyone in need of the healing properties of rain. Skills taught include Climb, Jump, Sing, Speak Languages (olven, aarakroca, giant eagle, others), Olven Lore, Play Wind Instruments, Listen, Ceremony, and Longbow attack. Initiate Membership Requirements: Standard. Aerdrie's initiates can often be found teaching their skills in archery or music to the children of the community. Spirit Magic: Bow Meld, Ease Pain, Farsee, Speedart. Priesthood Requirements: Standard. Aerdrie's priests are charged with the defense of their communities, and with giving advanced instruction in both music and archery. In some drier regions, or in time of war, their weather-magic is much sought after, as well. Virtues are Creative, Honorable, Modest, and Private. Common Divine Magic: all Special Divine Magic: Become Eagle, Cloud Call, Comand Sylph, Grow Wings, all Illusions, Summon Sylph Associated Gods Corellon: provides Enhance DEX Fenmarel: provides Plant Spy Labelas: provides Analyze Magic Sehanine: provides Heal Body Solonor: provides Sureshot - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 TANJ Lives! - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 08:51:14 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Language RU>> Bonuses are the natural affinity at a skill, and the base skill is RU>>anyone's ability to use the object as a weapon, therefore it is only RU>>right for a person with an affinity to be better than the person RU>>without. RU>Leon Kirshtein RU>The affinity you talking about only come with a degree of familiarity RU>and that is the reason I require at least some experiance gain. RU>After this minimum gain the person with affinity will be better than the RU>person without it. But the base skill isn't some free gift of the gods. It is the ability you, or I, or anyone else already has, because we are Already Familiar through our cultural background (movies, demo's, etc)! This is even more true in Glorantha where the use of weapons, and their training, is a common, everyday occurance. Anyone can look around and see how nearly every weapon style works, in daily life. Children know the basics before they are 12. At worst, the person needs a couple of hours to get used to the balance of a specific weapon before he can use it at full skill. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 09:08:18 -0500 From: stancliff@commnections.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Language RU>Most Gloranthans actually have some obscure dialect as their mother tongue, RU>though. A typical starting orlanthi PC ought, IMO, to have mastered the dial RU>of his clan, but be merely fluent in the local language, in Sartar : Sartari RU>Lots would depend on his background. Wealthy Boldhomers might, unusually, ha RU>Sartarite for a mother tongue, instead of some obscure clan dialect. This wo RU>be rare. RU>Anyway, I think now that about 50% as a starting skill in the locally import RU>language is probably about right for most characters. Everyone has a dialect, even you. That doesn't mean that you can't talk to someone else within your parent language. It does mean that the x2 for common conversation might be dropped to x1.5 or x1 to reflect the regional variant. American has at least eight to ten commonly recognized dialects with their own accents and buzz words, and American is a dialect of British, which has at least six to ten common dialects. It is a fallacy to call a regional dialect obscure, several thousand locals speak it with ease. But when one of these people tries to master their language, they end up back at the root language, learning why their dialect is different from the others. Bob Stancliff (Stancliff@commnections.com) (http://commnections.com/upgrades) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:47:52 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Language Bob "line length" Stancliff: > Me>Most Gloranthans actually have some obscure dialect as their mother > >tongue, though. > >Anyway, I think now that about 50% as a starting skill in the locally > >important language is probably about right for most characters. > > Everyone has a dialect, even you. Everyone has an idiolect, but not everyone has a dialect. Dialects per se are being generally killed off by TV, in Europe anyway. > That doesn't mean that you can't > talk to someone else within your parent language. It does mean that the > x2 for common conversation might be dropped to x1.5 or x1 to reflect the > regional variant. American has at least eight to ten commonly > recognized dialects with their own accents and buzz words, and American > is a dialect of British, which has at least six to ten common dialects. > It is a fallacy to call a regional dialect obscure, several thousand > locals speak it with ease. Umm, no I wasn't talking about regional dialects, actually. Sartarite would be one such regional dialect (of Theyalan). I was talking about clan dialects, which *would* be pretty obscure. A clan dialect would be fairly useless in most adventuring, anyway. It would be useful to discuss life and day-to-day reality in the clan lands, including local ritual, and a little local magic, some songs and a few local spirits, as well as arguing with your parents. Anything beyond that, whether political life, trade, high culture, high magic, or whatnot would need loan-concepts from the regional idiom, which would *not* necessarily be a directly related tongue, BTW. The nicest example I can think of is late Etruscan, which still existed during the Classical Latin period, but was spoken in different pagi, each having it's own separate version of it. These dialects had only tenuous links with the regional tongue, which was Latin. Etruscan itself no longer existed as a unified language. Much the same with Celtic, actually. Really, a dialect isn't always just a regional variant of a more important language. A dialect is a language spoken by a minority group, small or large, perhaps as small as a single bloodline, perhaps as large as a country. > But when one of these people tries to master > their language, they end up back at the root language, learning why > their dialect is different from the others. Absolutely! But only if their dialect is directly related to the regional tongue. Also, I'd like to point out that people who learn a dialect as a mother tongue usually start learning non-dialect too, from an early age. Not necessarily very well Are we getting off-topic? Anyway, back to RQ. The question was : how many % should starting characters have in their own language. Now, I'm not really interested in starting a discussion on what a "language" is, which is what we'd really want to do if we needed totally realistic rules. (But do we?) You have convinced me that 50% or thereabouts is usually about right. And I agree that, however you treat clan dialects IYG, mastery of a language will in most cases subsume a character's knowledge of the dialect of his village. But I think that a starting character probably masters the skill of free communication with members of his clan. It's all the same to me whether you prefer to have a young Sartarite with 50% Speak Sartarite, and a x2 modifier when speaking with fellow clanmembers, or whether he has 90% Leaping Sheep Clannish with a .5 or .66 modifier when speaking with other Sartarites. It won't take him that long to learn proper Sartarite, anyway ... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 07:59:05 PDT From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Language --> Skill Modifiers >RU>>Bob Stancliff >RU>> Bonuses are the natural affinity at a skill, and the base skill is >RU>>anyone's ability to use the object as a weapon, therefore it is only >RU>>right for a person with an affinity to be better than the person >RU>>without. > >RU>Leon Kirshtein >RU>The affinity you talking about only come with a degree of familiarity >RU>and that is the reason I require at least some experiance gain. >RU>After this minimum gain the person with affinity will be better than the >RU>person without it. > >RU>> > But the base skill isn't some free gift of the gods. It is the >ability you, or I, or anyone else already has, because we are Already >Familiar through our cultural background (movies, demo's, etc)! This is >even more true in Glorantha where the use of weapons, and their >training, is a common, everyday occurance. Anyone can look around and >see how nearly every weapon style works, in daily life. Children know >the basics before they are 12. At worst, the person needs a couple of >hours to get used to the balance of a specific weapon before he can use >it at full skill. I disagree with you here Bob. A fractional ability in a skill due to the similarity to an other skill is received because the person is not Already Familiar through cultural background with this skill. If he was, he would have it a an independent skill. Even if the possibility exists that a person saw how nearly every weapon style works, which is in my opinion is rare to say the least, then he was obiviously was not paying attention. "the person needs a couple of hours to get used to the balance of a specific weapon before he can use it at full skill." - in fact this is all I am talking about. That I am tring to avoid is the situation there a player with a high bonus can wield every single weapon he come across at 30% or higher even if he never even saw anything like it before in his life. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 16:19:45 +0100 From: "Paul Bestwick" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill Modifiers Leon wrote Even if the possibility exists that a person saw how nearly every weapon style works, which is in my opinion is rare to say the least, then he was obviously was not paying attention. "the person needs a couple of hours to get used to the balance of a specific weapon before he can use it at full skill." - in fact this is all I am talking about. That I am trying to avoid is the situation there a player with a high bonus can wield every single weapon he come across at 30% or higher even if he never even saw anything like it before in his life. I have to agree with Bob as combat involves much more than just wielding the weapon, a large proportion of it is reading the opponents moves and responding to them yourself. This is the same whatever weapon you have in your hand and as such what the skills modifier represents IMO. The only time I don't allow skills modifiers is on skills with a base chance of 0% Paul Bestwick *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 18:14:15 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill Modifiers Leon Kirshtein : > "the person needs a couple of hours to get used to the balance of a > specific weapon before he can use it at full skill." - in fact this is > all I am talking about. That I am tring to avoid is the situation there > a player with a high bonus can wield every single weapon he come across > at 30% or higher even if he never even saw anything like it before in > his life. I'm siding with Bob on this issue. In fact, I think that his more general use of skill multipliers is actually a damn good fix of some of the worst features of RQ. Let's take Harrek the Berserk. Capable of slaughtering men in the same way that ordinary men slay cockroaches. But the cockroaches fight back! His favourite weapon is wrenched from his grip by strange roachy magic. His bear claws are useless now, because of all the cockroach flesh ... His steely blues eyes survey the swarming battlefield, and there! He sees a dragonbone Klanth! But he ignores it! His Klanth skill is only 05% as he hasn't done a single hour of Klanth practice in his life. So, he begins to squeeze the cockroaches in-between his fingernails instead ... Bob's skill multiplier rules actually bypass this roolz problem pretty effectively, don't they? If each skill had listed, as the language skills so in G:CotHW, a set of related skills and multipliers (and especially the weapons skills) then RuneQuest would be improved, don't you think? I also think that skills bonuses should always be applied, but I don't mind it if you don't. Sounds OK to me. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #147 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.