From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #168 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, October 8 1998 Volume 01 : Number 168 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Silly Rules/Passion Spirits [RQ-RULES] Who writes how? Re: [RQ-RULES] Spirits RE: [RQ-RULES] Silly Rules/Passion Spirits Re: [RQ-RULES] RuneQuest [RQ-RULES] Well, oops Re: [RQ-RULES] Flexible Sorcery Re: [RQ-RULES] Dorastor survey: long Re: [RQ-RULES] The future of RQ Re: [RQ-RULES] RuneQuest Re: [RQ-RULES] Silly Rules/Passion Spirits [RQ-RULES] The Future... Re: [RQ-RULES] The Future... Re: [RQ-RULES] The future of RQ RE: [RQ-RULES] RuneQuest RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:13:59 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Silly Rules/Passion Spirits > > By the way, Passion Spirits need not be restricted to the normal > > Fear/Pain/Madness Spirits. Much fun can be had with > > Masturbation/Impotence/Lust/Incontinence Spirits and their ilk. > > Heh. I only ask that you be sure a Passion spirit is a PASSION; if you need to look the word up, please do. Masturbation in the previous example is an action that might be caused due to a strong passion such as lust. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:17:10 -0400 (EDT) From: Bryan Maloney Subject: [RQ-RULES] Who writes how? I know this has been talked about before, but I can't remember what, if anything was decided. Anyway, what cultures in Glorantha that write use which types of writing systems? To jog memories, linguists recognize the following types of systems: Logographic Logosyllabic Syllabic Consonantal Alphabetical Alphabetical A good brief introduction to these systems can be found at "http://alumni.eecs.berkeley.edu/~lorentz/Ancient_Scripts/connections.html" In regards to "ideographic" systems, I quote the web site: "You may have also encountered the term 'ideographic'. What it describes is a writing system whose symbols represent ideas. So, an ideographic writing system can be read by any person speaking any language given that they know which symbol in the system represents which idea. However, the concept of an "ideographic" writing system does not apply to any known writing system. Every [natural] writing system in the world replicates a language, so it encodes sounds and grammatical rules. Even at the most primitive level, in writing systems like Naxi or Mixtec, where extremely pictorial signs consist of the main bulk of the system, tricks to spell names using the rebus principle can still be detected. "Futhermore, because of the nature of language, putting words together make more complex ideas. Since there is an infinite number of combination of words, there clearly cannot be sufficient signs to represent each idea in a language. So, the writing system must mimick the natural language by putting two signs together to form a compound that represents the more complex idea. However, when this happens, signs don't just get juxtaposed randomly, but instead in some predescribed way that follows the grammatical rule of the language. All of a sudden, this turns into a logographic system!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:23:14 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Spirits > > You are generally right, but you have missed some of the finer details. > > Passion spirits possess covertly. That means that if their attack is ever > > 10 points above the opponent's defense they automatically win without > > reducing the POW to 0, they do not take control of the person, but inhabit > > them and plague them with constant mood shifts that the person might not > > even realize they have, and they don't leave until banished, which could > > take years. > > Ok, I thought there was something like that. However, How would they not know? Don't > they have to activly fight the spirit? During the course of life a PC might learn to identify the different types of spirits by sight, but that is generally a special knowledge of rune levels and highly experienced people. All a character knows usually is that an unidentified spirit attacked for a while and disappeared. The mood shifts of a passion spirit are like memory lapses where the spirit takes over occasionally and the person loses consciousness or has no memory of the action. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http:\\commnections.com\upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 17:30:10 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Silly Rules/Passion Spirits >The Siz 450 creature may be 200 m long with skin 3 m thick; >how can you possibly hit something critical 10% of the time with >a little 2 m sword? Would it care? It's probably got 250 hit points anyway, you'd have to stab it ~130 times with a broadsword to get enough criticals to kill it anyway. If you are using a greatsword it's even more because they don't impale. (Yes, I know some people use "slash" rules, I sometimes do). >I only ask that you be sure a Passion spirit is a PASSION; >if you need to look the word up, please do. It's just a word, I wouldn't fuss over dictionary definitions. I do agree, though, that covert posession couldn't cause the posessee to do what is normally a volitional act, but a Lust spirit could cause the involuntary responses. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk http://members.tripod.com/~PhilHibbs/ Any view of things that is not strange is false - Neil Gaiman, Sandman *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:33:46 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] RuneQuest > So where do we go from here? > Avalon Hill isn't a rpg company anymore (were they ever?) > Chaoisum has disowned the game. > Tom I intend to put most of the rules into a web site and make any modifications I want, then keep playing. When 'Hero Wars' comes out I will read it carefully to see if I can run that style of game or if I can add elements from it into my version. Your other choice is to put Glorantha into some other system like Champions of Role Master and use their rules for combat, etc. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http:\\commnections.com\upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:41:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Bryan Maloney Subject: [RQ-RULES] Well, oops Looks like I sent the writing query to the wrong digest. Never mind. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:43:22 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Flexible Sorcery In the rules, many sorcery spells affect variable types, Dominate for example. You could have the student learn the spell one way and then, with advancement, allow them to redefine the at casting. This should be very hard for an apprentice, and difficult for an Adept, but would add a lot of variation without learning new spells. This is a powerful rule change, use with care. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http:\\commnections.com\upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:46:23 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Dorastor survey: long [snip] > > Brad Furst > esoteric@teleport.com > I can't believe you added that all up and typed it in. I immediately sent it to the printer. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http:\\commnections.com\upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:51:50 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The future of RQ > who owns what now? > Who can release Gloranthan material under copyright? Issaries Inc/Chaosium > Who can release RuneQuest material under copyright? Avalon Hill who don't exist. Rights should devolve to Hasbro?? > Who can release HeroWars under copyright? Issaries Inc/Chaosium > What exactly are Issaries Inc doing/supposed to be doing? Issaries Inc is an offshoot corporation of Chaosium, intended to support Glorantha while Chaosium maintains the other games. If this stays true, I will be surprised. > The last good thing I think was Strangers in Prax, which was > excellent mind you, but was it a death rattle for RuneQuest??? It was the last valiant effort before the straw death. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http:\\commnections.com\upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 12:53:11 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] RuneQuest > One of the reasons I weaned myself off of AD&D was that I found I > enjoyed writing my own scenarios and rules tweaks anyway; why spend > $12-$20 for someone else's vision? :) > > Personally, I'd like to buy the game from Hasbro myself; with the right > licenses and a bit of rules trimming, it could become a viable game > again, or so I'd like to think. Very nice Tal, I agree fully. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http:\\commnections.com\upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 13:19:34 -0400 From: Richard Ohlson Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Silly Rules/Passion Spirits Bob Stancliff wrote: > > >RQ3 gives a bonus to hit of 5% per point of SIZ above a certain > > >SIZ. I can't remember the exact figures, but let's say each SIZ > > >above 50 gives + 5%, for argument's sake. > > > > It's +5% per 10 points above 20, so a SIZ 450 dragon gives +210% to hit, > so > > crit chance is something like 11%, not unreasonable. > > Not unreasonable? The Siz 450 creature may be 200 m long with skin 3 m > thick; how can you possibly hit something critical 10% of the time with a > little 2 m sword? An attack literally doesn't penetrate the armor, should > a critical or special even be allowed? The rules are dubious at this > scale. That's how the Dragon died in The Hobbit, no? A lucky shot? BTW, has anybody figured out the damage bonus of a size 450 creature? I'd assume that a Dragon could attack two, three, or even four times a round. And frankly, each shot should be a Hero-Killing whack. Shield 10? Ok, you only take 135 points of damage. Also, what is a critical actually going to DO to a size 450 creature? Genearlly, a creature's size is similar to it's size, so it's going to have 450 hitpoints. Ok, you crit with your super magical spear and do 50 points of damage. Now your spear is stuck and you can't parry. He still has 400 hitpoints and he kills you next round. I'd say that aimed shots would be the KEY to trying to kill the thing. Aim for an eye and pray your little heart out. Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 15:00:00 -0400 (EDT) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: [RQ-RULES] The Future... We already know that AH was bought by Hasbro. I contacted Hasbro and specifically asked them about RuneQuest. I was flatly informed that Hasbro has no intention of continuing any of AH's roleplaying properties in any way, shape, form, or vestige. As a commercial property, RuneQuest is as dead as a can of tuna. However, if anybody tries to do any kind of self-publishing, you can believe that Hasbro will be on your ass faster than a hyperbolic simile. Glorantha has always been the property of Chaosium, but it has now been transferred to Issaries, Inc., which is a "closely held" independent company. The way it works is that, while Chaosium may hold the lion's share of Issaries, Inc., stock, Issaries, Inc., assets are not Chaosium assets. Thus, they are not subject to siezure (even though the Issaries, Inc., stock might be--but how dangerous that is depends upon how much of the stock is Chaosium corporate property and subject to easy siezure, how much is technically private individual property and harder to sieze, etc.) Issaries, Inc. is working on a new game to be the gaming home of Glorantha. Likewise, they plan to issue non-game Glorantha products. Finally: Stop blaming AH for RQ's problems. They got RQ3 directly from Chaosium and had to publish it "as is"--all the RQ3 rules you hate are straight from Chaosium, AH had no input at all. They were not permitted to publish *any* Glorantha products without Chaosium's approval--indeed, the agreement was that all Glorantha development had to go through Chaosium, and Chaosium simply dropped the ball. It is true that AH tried to market it as a wargame, which was a failure--but AH had been assured that RuneQuest would sell itself, and if the rules had been closer to RQ2, with the same level of Gloranthan material, it would have, but bad rules, a complete lack of new Glorantha material, etc., were not AH's fault. I am no AH fan, but I greatly dislike blaming somebody else's failings on them. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 16:16:24 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The Future... > We already know that AH was bought by Hasbro. I contacted Hasbro and > specifically asked them about RuneQuest. I was flatly informed that > Hasbro has no intention of continuing any of AH's roleplaying properties > in any way, shape, form, or vestige. Did you talk to a company officer? I would like to see whether they expect any residual or royalty income, and if not, would they release it to another company or to the public domain. > Issaries, Inc. is working on a new game to be the gaming home of > Glorantha. Likewise, they plan to issue non-game Glorantha products. We are all waiting for 'Hero Wars' so that we can start getting new material. > Finally: Stop blaming AH for RQ's problems. They got RQ3 directly from > Chaosium and had to publish it "as is"--all the RQ3 rules you hate are > straight from Chaosium, AH had no input at all. Yes, it was all Chaosium's development work, AH was just publisher/distributor; I figured that out a long time ago, but both companies could have done their job better... both were too busy creating new games to make the old ones more popular. RQ3 is not broken, most of the points that work worst were in RQ2 also (statement of intent and the SR system, for example). Other items like Fatigue/Encumbrance are annoying, but well written, and the Sorcery system does work, even if it lacks some internal logic. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http:\\commnections.com\upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Oct 1998 23:25:28 GMT From: mikec@room3b.demon.co.uk (Michael Cule) Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The future of RQ I Am Not A Lawyer But.... As I understand it the NAME RuneQuest is what Avalon Hill owned at the end and what Hasbro presumably has rights to. The games system is still owned by Chaosium. Who would have to be insane to allow a re-issue of RQ (even de-Gloranthised RQ) when HW is about to be launched. (If you're reading this at Chaosium and actually feel different, let us all know soonest...) Personally I'd go with buying up the rights to the Alternate Earth supplements and going with more of those. That and encouraging people to adapt RQ to other settings rather than buying up possibly expensive licences. - -- Michael Cule Actor And Genius AKA Theophilus Prince Archbishop Of The Far Isles Medieval Society Arms Purpure An Open Book Proper: On the Dexter Page an Alpha Or On the Sinister an Omega Or. Motto Nulla Spes Sit in Resistendo (Resistance is Useless). Ask me about the Far Isles: Better Living through Pan-Medieval Anachronisms. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 18:10:16 -0700 From: Rich Allen Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] RuneQuest > The David Gemmel books would probably make a good RPG setting for RQ, > but I haven't read much of it. I agree! In fact, I've already done this to some degree in my campaign. My players have found themselves caught between a small Nadir tribe and a smallish force of Drenai led by a rebellious Duke. I've given the Nadir most of the Heortland (west of the Stormwalk Mtns in Glorantha) with the Drenai to the south along the coast and the Vagrians to the north. Of course, this same group of characters have also run into most of the Black Company and Vlad Taltos at one point or other in this extended campaign. What can I say... good writing always some influence my RPGs! Rich Allen rico@mindspring.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #168 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.