From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #177 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, October 14 1998 Volume 01 : Number 177 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] spellstuff - LONG Re: [RQ-RULES] Magic Systems Re: [RQ-RULES] Runic Sorcery & Divine Spells [RQ-RULES] Limits to Sorcery [RQ-RULES] Re: BRP Booklets RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:24:34 -0500 From: Steve Lieb Subject: [RQ-RULES] spellstuff - LONG At 12:39 PM 10/14/98 -0400, you wrote: > Much of the recent discussion of Runic Sorcery lately has reminded >me of the Runic Sorcery system that I made up about ten years ago, which >was inspired by a non-RQ game that an old friend or mine ran. I know that >someone has already mentioned the URL, but I don't suppose that it will >hurt if I mention it again: . >It's by no means perfect, but it reflects a lot of the ideas that have >been kicked around here lately. Also germane to this discussion is my short essay on the nature of magic in Glorantha (in my games). http://www.remotepoint.com/styopa/Glorantha.htm but since my ^&%*&%& webserver is DOWN again, here it is in full (I'd appreciate opinions, too!): A discussion of magic (excerpted from "A newcomer's guide to RuneQuest") In the world of RuneQuest, hereafter abbreviated as RQ, there are basically three competing systems of magic. In the truest sense of the word, these systems do compete - that is they rival each other to provide the most coherent explanation of the forces at work in the world around your characters. Most importantly, they each have different methods of controlling these forces for (usually) beneficial ends. To quickly sum them, they are Spirit Magic, Divine Magic, and Sorcery. In describing the differing systems in detail, it is usually easier to go in reverse order, recognizing that the mechanistic 'tone' of Sorcery is most familiar to 20th-Century players' cause-and-effect mentality. Divine Magic is next, as the concept of Gods & Goddesses and the powers they wield is a common theme both in history and fiction. Finally Spirit Magic which, while it admittedly was probably the mythic basis for every culture on the face of the Earth today, is sometimes a difficult concept for moderns to accept and understand. Sorcery, then, is probably the closest thing to modern Physics. Dealing mostly with pure force and the multitude of ways in which it can be applied, the Sorcerer is the RQ skeptic. He or she KNOWS that by concentrating a certain way, uttering certain phrases, and perhaps making gestures a certain result can be produced - repeatably, consistently. Anyone with the ability to concentrate, the intellect to remember exactly what to do, and the courage to do so can repeat the effort with the same results. As sorcerors become more skilled, they can predictably increase the range and efficacy of their spells. Intertwined with sorcery is a belief system, however, known as Malkionism. Malkionists (not all Malkionists are sorcerors, nor are all sorcerors Malkioni, but the practice of sorcery and the belief system are roughly coterminus, and should be discussed together) are monotheists, and are therefore considered blasphemous by most of the rest of society. Sorcery, with its rejection of the power of spirits and Gods, is considered a heretical practice in many lands, so its practitioners outside of Malkioni lands are generally surreptitious. Systemically, little needs to be said about the practice of sorcery. The system is clear (see The Practice of Magic, below) and needs little explanation to players already familiar with the genre. Divine Magic is based on the power of faith, and the demonstrateable power of a God or Goddess. As is clear from real-world history, the power of religion is very strong. Coupled with priests and runelords who can regularly raise the dead, heal the living, and draw killing bolts down from the sky, it then becomes a dominant force in everyone's daily lives. The priests, and their martial assistants, runelords, are the guiders and maintainers of this tremendous power. Divine Magic is granted only to those who have proven faith in a diety or pantheon. The power is a direct gift from their god(s) and is therefore very strong and, within certain limits, infallible. However, this is not granted lightly. With such power comes great responsibility, and duty to pursue the interests of one's God in the mundane world. Due to the Great Compromise, the Gods are bound not to intervene directly in mortal affairs - consequently the Divine Magic user is not just an earthly font of their god's power on the mundane plane, but is expected to act as the god's emissary, defender, spy, and sometimes pawn in the great power struggles enacted through all of the gods believers on Earth. Systemically, Divine Magic is simple in that it takes a large up-front investment (POW) but thereafter nothing to use. Divine Magic is less mechanical than sorcery - the power is guided by the hand of a God, and therefore, as long as the caster has been faithful and true, it is impossible that the magic can backfire or harm the caster or believers in any way. (For examples, see the Practice of Magic, below.) The effectiveness can vary, depending on the god's strength, particular area of importance, and the influence of inimical forces (other gods). Once cast, spells can only be regained by performing a worship service and petitioning the diety to restore the power thus used. Requirements vary considerably, but in general, reuseable Divine spells can be recovered based on their original POW sacrifice. 1 point spells can usually be recovered after a night's sleep and a few hours' meditation. 2 point spells require the performance of a minor service, taking 4-6 hours, and involving the caster, and at least one other lay member as worshipper. 3 point and higher spells can only be gotten after the performance of a major service, including 4+ lay members, an Initiate as an Acolyte, and the caster as performer of the service. Also, these can be recovered from participating in larger services at consecrated places of worship, of course. Spirit Magic is itself divided into two subdivisions - Common (or Low) Magik and True Spirit (or High) Magik. They share ground in that they are based in the influence of the spirits that inhabit the invisibile world all around us. All of the Magiks are enacted by the presence or activity of spirits. The difference is fairly simple - Common magik is that performable really by anyone. Through force of will usually focussed through a runic device, many weaker spirits can be compelled to perform even if the invoker doesn't specifically realize that they are commanding a spirit. Minor healing, pain, small repairs, gentle light and so forth can be drawn or evoked from them. Stronger Magik, such as possession, agony, and restoration from death are the provence of the High Magiker - most frequently called a Shaman, in reference to their constant communications and dealings with the Spirit World. This familiarity with the other world can make Shamans in particular extraordinarily powerful. However, nothing that cannot be conceivably enacted on this plane or another by a spirit can be done by these magikers, however. Systemically, Spirit Magic is the hardest to adjudicate. While Divine Magicians must sacrifice for spells beforehand, and Sorcerors must study & know a spell, Shamans (only) can basically have their fetch reach out and grab any wimpy little spirit that's floating by and compel it to do something handy. However, the emphasis should be on WIMPY. Any really nasty effect should require some effort to find a stronger spirit (spell) that can do the job - a time investment equivalent to that of the other two types of magic for the serious stuff, anyway. 90% of the spirits activities can be rationalized and should not require special ruling - the action of a 1 point Healing is merely the evocation of the spirit of the being healed (even the caster!) and therefore it is not really necessary to call for spirit combat or anything like that. In a sense, the description of the magic as 'performed by spirits' is more for visualization, and for interpreting the effects of spells on the world of play. Once again, the examples provided in the Practice of Magic, below, should help get the point across. The Practice of Magic In order to describe the effects of the above noted schemes of magic, for example some common spell effects are noted below, along with how each magic system would cause them to be, if possible. "The blast of energy that kills enemies" Sorcery - simple expenditure of x amount of MP for Intensity, Range, and area of effect. If the caster is accidentally within that area, whoops! Divine Magic - power granted from god by the expenditure of X POW at the last temple visited. If cast against a cow or a mountain, the effect would be mediocre. If cast against a hostile gods worshipper, or if the cow was an apostate, effects would be greatly magnified. If cast for fun on the local friendly high priest, it probably wouldn't go off, he'd know about it, and you'd never get it (or most other spells for that matter) back! If caster or friends are in the way, no problem - they are unscathed. [It should be recognized this leaves A LOT of room for the DM's interpretation of the player's intent, past behaviour and lots of other contextual things the player may not even be aware of. That's how it's supposed to be - serving a god shouldn't be clear & easy!] Spirit Magic - couldn't do. Shaman could maybe call a fire spirit, but that's really summoning. "Find the person" Sorcery - would need a talisman of the person, or at least a description, and could cast his/her senses to an area to search. Divine - Simply a matter of asking "God, where is that s.o.b. that ambushed us last week, when we were on that crucial mission for you?" If God knows (i.e. the s.o.b. still exists, the caster has been good, and the s.o.b.'s not protected by another god or hiding in a consecrated area or area the god doesn't have access to) he tells where the s.o.b. is. Almost instant. Of course, a Gods terms of reference may not be really useful to humans, either: "He sits, fearful, in a dark room in the belly of the Mother of Cities." Spirit - the Shaman selects a power level of spirit he'd send (< his fetch, of course) to look for the aura sought. Gives the spirit some MPs (the spirit equivalent of Liv-a-Snaps) and hopefully some direction, and sends it off. The more powerful the spirit, the more intelligent (expensive) the spirit, the more likely it will find the target, and find it quickly. Again, the directions given will really be in a context only a shaman could understand, and probably won't be conveyable to others ("Hm, feels like he's down this hallway and maybe up some steps - nope, feels further than that.") A final note: As can be seen, the intent of the above is to show that the magic systems of Runequest do not have to be identical or even nearly so. Their effect can be similar, sure. In our world, you can dig a hole with a shovel, acid, or explosives. Each will dig a hole, but the hole you get will vary considerably according to the means employed. The intent is enhance the role-playing, and to make the users of different magics see their talents as unique and colorful. A great deal is left on the shoulders of the DM to judge - this is as it should be. Small inconsistancies can easily be explained away or IGNORED, if players are having fun. This makes users less certain of their capabilities, more like real life. Finally, there were some rules-tweaking intended as well. In my view, Sorcerers are just about right. With the addition of Sandy's suggestions about Presence and Vows, and previous mailing-list discussions about limiting manipulation based on skill, I think Sorcerers feel just about right. Divine magic seemed too, well, BORING. I mean, if Yelm is casting down a sunspear for ya, it should be COOL and USEFUL - *not* just another bolt from the blue. Shamans were too weak, and the rules about them too vague. Having the contact on the spirit plane should lend extraordinary flexibility to them, and they should be MARKEDLY more powerful than the Joe Adventurer carting around Befuddle. I felt they should be more utility than the present rules gave them - giving semi-free use of spirit magic is a potent tool, but not really unbalancing, in my opinion. In my campaign, my interpretation is that normals (people without a fetch) cannot have spirit magic spells stronger than 1/5 their current POW. Shamans have no limit. However, Shamans must go the "find a spirit, beat it up" procedure to find any spell > ¼ the current POW of the Shaman + fetch. (Also for non-general use spirit magic.) Please let me know what you think! - -Steve Lieb styopa@iname.com steve@necadon.com http://surf.to/styopa *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:35:08 -0700 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Magic Systems How much?thanks ken > One of my local game stores has maybe a half-dozen to a dozen of these > left lying around... anyone want any? > > -- > talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 13:50:31 -0700 From: "Dana and Cynthia Myers" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Runic Sorcery & Divine Spells > Regarding magic systems for the BFRP... >I'm thinking of Divine magic as being >blessings, rather than spells >reasons (for example, Saint Cugelbert's sacred club might suddenly glow >with a divine light, surprising the heretics lying in ambush around the >corner). . There was an article writen in TOTRM ( I think ) that utilized priests sacrificing POW into a sort of power pool, instead of specific spells. This allowed more flexability in what "miracles" the priest could call down, as well the GM could always have spells simply activate ( drawing on the power pool ) when the god thought it was needed. I love the idea of miracles and blessings though. Dana *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 98 14:25:44 PDT From: Eric Yin Subject: [RQ-RULES] Limits to Sorcery With all of the discussion regarding magic lately, I wanted to throw out some ideas about managing the number of spells a sorceror can "memorize". I have found that the free INT system can either be too restrictive, or too powerful, depending upon the interpretation of the rules, and in general, I don't like it. The method that I have been devising is for my own campaign, which is actually a Pendragon variant, so die rolls are based on D20s. Basically, the maximum number of spells a sorceror knows is based on INT and POW. Perhaps something like 4 or 5 times the sum of the two characteristics. The sum of skill for all the spells the sorceror knows would not be able to exceed this number. For example: the sorceror has a limit of 60, so he could know 6 spells at 10 skill, or three spells at 20 skill. Once the maximum is reached, a skill cannot go up without the other going down. I would make this a gradual process, so that as a new spell is being learned, an older spell is being "forgotten". A couple of other additions would be that once a sorceror has mastered a spell, say by reaching 16+ in skill, he can reduce the "cost" of the spell by half. The reduced cost would remain even if the spell should fall to below 16 through disuse. Also, any spell with which the sorceror was familiar, perhaps by having at one time or another at least an 8 skill can be re-learned at twice the normal rate (up to the original level of the skill). Any skill for which he had less than 8 skill, and let slide to 0 is completely forgotten. I think that this system could even be applied to other skills as well. Any opinions? * . * * * . * . . * . * . * . * . * . * * . * Eric Yin* . * * . . * . * . * . Dept. of Pathology, USC * I got me da kine mo'bio blues . . eyin@hsc.usc.edu . * * . . * . . http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~eyin * . . * * * . * . . * * * * * . * * * * . . . * * *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1998 17:58:16 EDT From: Delecti@aol.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: BRP Booklets <> Actually, I think I have several in decent condition, considering a friend of mine who passed away gave me most of his RQ/Glorantha stuff. I do not have the time to transcribe any of them right now but could pass them on. Delecti, Lord of the Upland Marsh aka Scott Knowles RL, USA Coordinator for The Chaos Society Delecti@aol.com ChaosSociety@iname.com http://members.aol.com/Glorantha/chaossoc.html "Look at you, ship all banged up! " - -- Capt. Steven Hiller (Will Smith), Independence Day *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #177 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.