From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #200 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, November 10 1998 Volume 01 : Number 200 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] November Pitch [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #199 Re: [RQ-RULES] One Weapon Skills. Re: [RQ-RULES] One Weapon Skills. [RQ-RULES] DMD - Hakuum for RQ/Greyhawk [RQ-RULES] Separate attack/parry? [RQ-RULES] One Weapon Skills. RE: [RQ-RULES] Spear parrying RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 19:50:10 -0000 From: "Dom Twist" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] November Pitch Opps sorry about that wrong address that was meant for just Tal...still it is a title I havent heard off before so I guess there might be a few of us in the dark - -----Original Message----- From: Dom Twist To: runequest-rules@MPGN.COM Date: 09 November 1998 19:50 Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] November Pitch >The JG (Judges Guild I presume) Title 'Duck Pond'...I confess I've not heard >of it.....good you give me some setails please? > >DomT >-----Original Message----- >From: Tal Meta >To: RuneQuest Rules Discussion List >Date: 05 November 1998 16:38 >Subject: [RQ-RULES] November Pitch > > >>I've still got a few items that might be of interest to folks, so see >>below... >> >>Prices listed do not include shipping. Unless otherwise indicated, all >>items are used, but in VG - EX condition. A ""*"" after the price >>indicates that multiple copies are available. >> >>AHG - 857 - RuneQuest Deluxe (Boxed) (EX) $20.00 >>AHG - 85712 - Apple Lane (SW) $5.00* >>AHG - 8571 - RuneQuest 3 PC's Box (SW) $15.00* >> (This item contains books 1 & 2, plus dice, >> Player's Notes, and RQ2 -> RQ3 Conversion) >>AHG - 8572 - RuneQuest 3 GM's Box (SW) $15.00* >> (This item contains books 3, 4, & 5, plus >> map of Fantasy Europe & Play Aids) >> >>AHG - **** - Special! Take 8571 & 8572 for just - $25.00! >> >>AHG - 8575 - Character Sheets: Non-Human (SW) $5.00* >>AHG - 8590 - Sun County (SW) $6.00* >> >>also see the GW section for RQ3 Hardcovers! >> >>CHA - 2005 - Basic Role Playing $5.00* >>CHA - 2007 - thieves world boxed set (VG) $20.00 >>CHA - 2015 - thieves world companion (MN) $14.00* >> (see FASA section for thieves world modules) >>CHA - 2102 - Stormbringer Companion $10.00 >>CHA - 2106x - Hawkmoon Boxed Set (NM) $20.00 >>CHA - 2107 - Shattered Isle $8.00 >>CHA - 2111 - Rogue Mistress $15.00 >>CHA - 2501 - Ringworld boxed set (VG) $66.00 >>CHA - 2502 - Ringworld Companion (NM) $35.00* >>CHA - 2907 - The Unknown East (SW) $15.00 >>CHA - 3100 - Nephilim (Main Rulebook) $15.00* >>CHA - 40?? - Creatures of Chaos 1 (NM) $10.00* >>CHA - 4017 - Soloquest 1 (VG) $10.00 >>FASA - T1 - Traitor $10.00* >>FASA - T2 - The Spirit Stones $10.00 >>FASA - T3 - Dark Assassin $10.00* >>GW - 4614 - Basic RuneQuest Hardcover (NM) $20.00* >>GW - 4628 - Advanced RuneQuest Hardcover (NM) $20.00* >>GW - 4667 - Land of Ninja Hardcover - RQ3 (NM) $50.00 >>JG - 380 - Duck Pond (for RQ) $15.00 >>PAG - 1005 - Delta Green for CoC $24.00 >>RMM - 0010 - TotRM #10 - Sea Special $9.00 >> >>Grading Guide >>~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>SW - Shrinkwrapped >>MN - Mint >>NM - Near Mint >>EX - Excellent >>VG - Very Good >>GD - Good >>FR - Fair >>PR - Poor >> >>Please e-mail me back if you're interested in anything, or have >>questions, etc. >> >>-- >>talmeta@bellatlantic.net - I *am* one of the Chosen Few! >>ICQ - 12594453 >>AIM - talmeta1 >>TANJ Lives! - >>Alternate Homepage - >> >>************************************************************************** * >>To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >>'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. >> > > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 15:19:03 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #199 On Mon, 9 Nov 1998, it was written: > I'm trying to imagine how much use a bowie knife would have been in > parrying that spear..... hmmmmm. Against a thrust--fairly effective. One needs very little force to parry a thrust. > withstand blows. This was hardly the average dagger. It was also only > suitable for parrying rapiers, foils and such. It would have been pretty > useless against a broadsword, spear, axe or indeed almost any other Urh? From where do you get your information? Why does DiGrassi recommend parrying outright cuts with the dagger? The Pugnale Bolognese was fairly stout--but the Bowie knife--at least the size Jim Bowie used--is bigger. > Are you seriously sugesting that the average dirk was a suitable > parrying weapon? They often had the smallest of cross guards. In fact Yes. It is quite possible to ward without the use of a crossguard. The spada y dega is a very old combination of weapons. It is safer to have a crossguard, but anybody who relies upon their weapon's guards for parrying has no idea what he is doing. Bear it on the forte, not the guard. The guard exists to protect the hand in case a clean parry doesn't come off quite right. > As for spears, they're perfectly effective at parrying other spears, but > against swords, axes, etc I've seen numerous occasions where swordsmen > have closed against spear and pikemen at the sealed knott and the > spearmen were all slaughtered out of hand. (N.B. In fact most sealed I would say that they were incompetent, in that case. Why didn't they clobber the oncoming lummoxes with some heavy over-hand swings. Yes, you lose the use of the point for the attack, but consider the MASS you've got. Heck, you could split a skull through a helmet that way! As for parrying cuts--they can be parried indirect as well as direct. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Nov 1998 12:43:09 -0800 (PST) From: "John R. Snead" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] One Weapon Skills. Michael Cule wrote: > I think if you're going to use just one skill for each weapon I should > say that you need to take into account the nature of the weapon. How > about this. >Weapons are either Attackers, Parryers or Both. > If a Weapon is Both then use full weapon skill for both attacking and > parrying. Examples might be quarterstaffs and two handed swords. > If a Weapon is primarily an Attacker then use full weapon skill for > attacking and half skill for parrying. An example might be a Broadsword. > If a Weapon is primarily a Parryer then use full skill for parrying and > half skill for attacking. An example might be a Shield. > Some weapons might need special rules, for example fencing weapons but > overall I think this is workable. Agreed. I like this idea quite a bit. As an alternative, you could also look at something similar to 4rth edition Ars Magica. There they have combat skills grouped by style, not by weapon. They have: Single weapon (short spear, shortsword, longsword mace, axe) Weapon & shield (above + shield) Two weapons (cloak & dagger shortsword & dagger 2 shortswords, 2 axes) Great weapon (quarterstaff, 2-H sword, war maul, greataxe Longshaft weapon (pike, long spear, billhook) Each category is a separate skill, and each separate weapon or weapon combo gives different levels of damage and parrying protection. 4rth ed. switched to this from a very RQ-style separate attack & parry skill system in editions 1-3 and the game was IMHO much improved. Something similar (of which Michael's idea sounds like an excellent start) would likely similarly benefit RQ. - -John Snead jsnead@netcom.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Nov 1998 13:53:47 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] One Weapon Skills. >Michael Cule wrote: > >> I think if you're going to use just one skill for each weapon I should >> say that you need to take into account the nature of the weapon. How >> about this. > >Agreed. I like this idea quite a bit. > >As an alternative, you could also look at something similar to 4rth >edition Ars Magica. There they have combat skills grouped by style, not >by weapon. The basis of merging attack and parry into a single skill was to simplify the system and cutting down on rules. If by merging them, on the other, we windup adding rules and/or skills, then why do it in the first place? Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 00:01:51 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] DMD - Hakuum for RQ/Greyhawk Gods of the Bakluni HAKUUM Runes: Water, Cold, Harmony Hakuum is the Lord of the Cold Seas. Cult in the World Due to the nature of the seas the Bakluni know best, it is no wonder that Hakuum is associated with Cold, as well as Water. Though warm currents sweep though the Drawmij Ocean, deep fogs and icebergs are well known as well. Hakuum is the son of Koram and Istus, and Geshtai was born of his love for Qozamal. Called by some the Prince of the Oceanids, he is known to be served by the multitude of ocean nymphs that dwell in the Drawmij. Hakuum's High Holy Day is the 14th of Coldeven, with lesser holidays observes on the 14th of each month. Services to Hakuum are almost always held either at shipboard shrines or in the magnificent port-side mosques constructed in his honor. Such mosques are always built with the wood of wrecked sea vessels, the grandest of which is located in Zeif, and features the prow of the Whisperdance (formerly of the flagship of the Bakluni Imperial Navy) thrust out into the sea, still riding the waves after 1,000 years. Priests of Hakuum typically wear jellabas of aquamarine, over rich blue tunics and pants. Grey turban wraps are commonly worn by all of Hakuum's followers, over skullcaps for worshippers, and over turbans for priests. Lay Membership Requirements: Sailors, fishermen, and shipwrights make up the bulk of Hakuum's worshippers, as do any others who make thier living on or from the seas. Skills taught include Boat, Climb, Swim, various crafts (carpentry, rope making, etc.), Shiphandling, World Lore, Devise, Scan, Ceremony, and Cutlass attack/parry. Initiate Membership Requirements: In addition to the standard requirements, initiates of this cult are required to have made at least one sea voyage. Spirit Magic: Coordination, Farsee, Repair, Silken Wake, and Spinestrike. Priesthood Requirements: Standard. Hakuum's priesthood seves aboard many Bakluni ships as officers, usually as captains. On large vessels, the ships' company itself may qualify as a minor temple while at sea. Virtues for Hakuum include Calm, Conservative, Pragmatic, and Spiritual. Common Divine Magic: all Special Divine Magic: Chill, Command (Oceanid, Undine), Float, Hold Course, Summon (Oceanid, Undine), Water Wall, and Waves. Associated Gods Geshtai: provides Command Potameides Qozamal: provides Increase Wind - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:52:36 -0000 From: Sergio Mascarenhas Subject: [RQ-RULES] Separate attack/parry? I sent this message to RQ-RULES answering a message there, but I think it should also be posted in BFRP-Design: Simon makes a lot of arguments in favor of keeping attack and defense together within a single skill, to which I would like to had a further one: > Just becasue it's possible to categorise moves, or stages within > a manoeuvre, as being an attack or a defence, does not mean > there is any qualitative difference in the type of skill or technique > used to execute it. True. In fact, the best argument I've read so far in favor of separate attack and defense skills misses the point IMO. This argument stresses that there are people that are very effective at attacking or at parring, but not at the two. This is true, but I think that it's not because these people develop attack and parry like if they were separate skills, but for a completly different reason that has nothing to do with skills (at least, at a first approach). The reason why some people seem to be better at attacking, while other people seem to be better at defending is connected to how they deal with risk. Risk averse people try to avoid risk, so they favor deffense; risk 'seeking' people go for attack, at the cost of defense. This as to do with personality, not with skill. That's why I proposed a while ago the introduction of personality traits in BFRP*. One of those would be Courage. In combat, a Coward or Prudent character would have a skill penalty to attack and a bonus to defense; a Courageous or Imprudent character would have a penalty to defense and a bonus to attack. Sergio * I think that the fact that's is to be a development of BRP doesn't mean that we should not introduce rules for things that are missing from BRP. BRP does not have personality rules. IMO we should introduce BASIC personality rules. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:21:40 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: [RQ-RULES] One Weapon Skills. Michael Cule : >I think if you're going to use just one skill for each weapon I should >say that you need to take into account the nature of the weapon. How >about this. >Weapons are either Attackers, Parryers or Both. My point isn't that some weapons cannot be used for parrying, but that their defensive strengths lie in detterence rather than acting as a physical barrier. Think of knife fighters circling each other, looking for an opening, making a few tentative offensive moves and waiting for their opponent to make a mistake. They are defending, but not parrying. Thus having a separate parry skill in this case makes no sense. Sergio : >This as to do with personality, not with skill. That's why I proposed a >while ago the introduction of personality traits in BFRP*. One of those >would be Courage. In combat, a Coward or Prudent character would >have a skill penalty to attack and a bonus to defense; a Courageous or >Imprudent character would have a penalty to defense and a bonus to >attack. That seems reasonable to me. Are we interested in putting a personality system into the game? I'd be interested in seeing a simple system - along the lines of picking a few (perhaps from one to three) traits from a list. Each trait gives a benefit and a penalty. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 14:41:30 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Spear parrying Phil : >Yes, but to be fair, you're not allowed to kill the opposition >with your pike in the SK. If they are determined to close with >you, they can, with impunity. Fair point, the swordsmen coudl not be deterred by the pikemen't attack, and without the ability to attack the pikemen had no defence. Dom Twist : >I've gone up against Spearmen carrying only a Scram (bought the >same as a proper sized Bowie, which remember was made from a >cut down sword originally!) and come out on top...if you can deflect >the initial strike you have a fair chance of closing. If your oponent >cant give ground he can end up in real probs. Would you say that the skill at wielding the Scram you used to knock aside the spear was totaly unrelated to your ability to attack with it, or basicaly the same skill? In my experience (and admittedly I've never actualy used a bowie knife) the best way to deal with a spear is to knock it aside with a blow from whatever you've got in your hand (you're hand will do fine on it's own), grab the spear and push it away from you as you close in as fast as possible on the spearman. However as Phil pointed out this is against spearmen who can under no circumstances actualy attack you. I have a friend in Fight School (a sword fighting re-enactment group) who saw someon killed by a ball-ended spear at a re-enactment event in ireland. The ball tore the guy's thigh, opening the artery and he bled to death. In comparison, I don't know of any sword delated deaths in re-enactment events. How much of a chance would you have had to deflect that spear if the guy using it realy wanted to kill you? Would you rather have had the Scram, or a shield to parry with? How much of an advantage would a shield give to your chance of parrying, in comparrison. >That rather depends on the Smith who made it and the design >doesnt it......beside that lack of suitability would be reflected in >the AP of the weapon Indeed, and I'm not saying we should drop the Main Gauche from the weapons list if you want to run renaisance games - or Sai if you want to play oriental ones. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V1 #200 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.