From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #8 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Saturday, January 16 1999 Volume 02 : Number 008 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES].....magic point availability... [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #7 Huh? Where? (was: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #7) Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Re: [RQ-RULES] Magic point storage Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence [RQ-RULES] The Blood of the Gods Re: [RQ-RULES] The Blood of the Gods Re: [RQ-RULES] The Blood of the Gods RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:45:14 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: [RQ-RULES].....magic point availability... Ashley Munday : >Incidentally, having large amounts of magic points is nothing new. Back in >the bad old days, Bill Keyes said in "Runemasters" that almost all initiates >found adventuring would either have a POW storage crystal or a bound spirit >(if their POW was high enough). In RQ II one of the first spells most >adventurers learnt (after Heal 2 and an offensive spell) was Spirit Binding >so they could get a renewable source of POW and somewhere to stuff a few >extra points of battle magic. Agreed. If you think about it, without an external source of magic points, casting any magic at all is extremely hazardous. It rduces your MPs (or battle magic POW) making you much more susceptible to offensive magic or possetion by spirits. If you're going to give your characters magic, then in order to make it more than only very marginaly usefull then they need MP reserves. Obviously, profesional spellslingers are going to need more that the average joe. Nikk : >Also, Power Spirits being rare or not is not an official line. In the >Chaosium House Campaign magic items flowed like water, while in games >like Dave Dunhams Seattlite Farmers Campaign, I think the only item >they have a single power spirit. It all depends upon campaign >flavouring. In David's taming of dragon pass campaign magic items were much more common. He used the Pendragon rules, in which characters have a winter phase to do long term stuff. I remember him saying that prist characters got a POW check each winter and could make items. Remember, this was a clan based game..... all those older relatives sitting around with nothing better to do than repair clothes, make wooden chairs and enchant magic items with their spare POW...... Once the game had got through a couple of generations I bet the available magic items were pretty impressive! This is another factor that isn't considered often. If your sorcerer character is the child of a sorcerer then what happened to all mum or dad's stuff? I routinely give my PC sorcerers a hanfull of points worth of heirloom magic items. To me, it's just an inevitable touch of realism and an inevitable consequence of the social situation in Glorantha and the game rules. It's one fo the benefits of belonging to a culture, along with the obligations. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:30:28 +0000 From: Pete Nash Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #7 > Looks like a matter of interpretation to me. Personally, I can't see > why > sorcerers wouldn't deal with spirits - even in Glorantha. > > Anyone think of an overpowering reason why they wouldn't? My memory is terrible, but wasn't there quite a few years ago some discussion about this on one of the digests. Did Sandy once post the following sort of idea... Shaman beats Sorcerer, Sorcerer beats Theist, Theist beats Shaman. The shamans power came from spirits. The Theists power came from the gods. And the sorcerers power came from himself. Although the sorcerer didn't have as much raw power as a shaman, he had far more control over the world using his magic. If he wanted to manipulate his surroundings then he'd use his personal power, because that's the way he thinks. If he needs lots of magic points then he'd create storage devices to hold _his_ own mps. Not enslave some other 'living?' source to supply them for him. IMO the concept is alien to him. (*) Again I think I can recall some balance of power scenarios where the sorcerers come out of the west to stomp over the barbarians, but are then utterly quashed when the shamans of pent or prax release their spirit hoards at them. Its just a Gloranthan idea to balance out each of the philosophies of magic. Otherwise a sorcerer can very quickly become immensly powerful. Unfortunately IMO this method to create awesome sorcerers by allowing them to use, summon and control spirits has tempted the authors of some scenarios. Now its in writing the method has become canon. I always imagine what I'd do if a sorcerer tried to summon and bind spirits in a game I ran. Some very big spirits would come a teach the sorcerer a terminal lesson. Or even rip their spirit out and use it as a heroplane personal magic item... ;-) Your Glorantha may vary. Pete (*) Isn't this what the god learners were starting to do just before Glorantha crushed them? Sorcerers might have learned their lesson by now... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:00:53 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Huh? Where? (was: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #7) Pete Nash wrote: > > Your Glorantha may vary. And folks not playing on Glorantha have an even stranger take on the whole matter. :) - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:38:53 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence > The reason for the change is probably that with further > playtesting it was discovered how grossly MP expensive ALL sorcery is, > especially for useful intensities and durations, so they changed the > nature of Multi-Spell to reduce this MP penalty for those who know > Multi-Spell. Well, I'm apparantly in the minority here, but I LIKE the fact that sorcery is MP expensive. That alone serves to put logical limits on the power of individuals. And while we're on the subject, do any of you allow non- sorcerers (that is, not apprentices or adepts) the use of the sorcerer magic skills (Intensity, Duration, Range and Multispell)? IMC, any person wishing to learn these skills must apprentice himself to a sorcerer, thus incruing all of the penalties associated with being a sorcerer. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:00:46 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Rich Allen wrote: > > And while we're on the subject, do any of you allow non- > sorcerers (that is, not apprentices or adepts) the use of the > sorcerer magic skills (Intensity, Duration, Range and Multispell)? Nope. There are enough outlets to apprentice oneself and learn; if they seek such knowledge, they know what to do. > IMC, any person wishing to learn these skills must apprentice > himself to a sorcerer, thus incruing all of the penalties associated > with being a sorcerer. What penalties, might I ask? - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:25:09 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence > What penalties, might I ask? Apprentices "must spend 90% of his time performing duties, studying, and maintaining his sorcery skills." He is also "Limited to DEX x 3 maximum in all manipulation, weapon, stealth and agility skills." Skills already know above that level cannot be increased at all while he's an apprentice. Not to mention the fact that the point of POW sacrificed to the teacher, or the teacher's familiar, creates a bond that makes it pretty much imposible for the apprentice to sneak out for a quick adventure. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:28:41 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence > Actually, it says 1 point per TYPE of characteristic; a POW spirit > (possessing only POW) would require 1 point, while a Magic spirit > (INT+POW) would require 2 points. The value of the characteristic does not > matter, only the number of characteristics involved. OK, my fault, I mis-read that bit. IMHO though, this makes the binding much more favourable than MPME, and thus much less rare. I need to study up on it more, obviously, but if it costs so much less to bind a POW spirit than it does to make a POS storage crystal, why would you make the crystal? *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:29:59 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Magic point storage > As a side note, I give much higher base chances with sorcery spells than > RQ3 and have amalgamated summon, enchant and ceremony into a single skill. > Generaly I prefer characters in my games to be more competent than the > average in RQ3 because I like to run games with epic themes. This requires > the characters be able to stand up to fairly high class opposition. Still, > the basic rules are far from broken. You obviously like to play in a world where every fifth person you meet could level a small village before lunch. We don't. Nuff said. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:14:58 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence > > We rule that MP's stored in a crystal (or any other magic point > > matrix item) can only be used by the individual that put them there, and > > only one person's MP's can be in an MPMatrix at a time. > Both of these are unjustified by the rules... MP's are MP's. They all > come from the fertile source and recycle back to it. Is your statement justified by the rules? In my aapparently limited knowledge of the rules, I can't seem to find this stated anywhere. > > If you find a storage crystal (something that would never happen in my > > game, you must earn these babies), you must attune yourself to the > > crystal in order to be able to use it. > In all of the published modules, spell matrices and MP storage crystals > are the most common magic items in the game. This is a personal gripe on my part, I admit, but IMO modules don't provide errata to games rules. Anything stated in a module that is different that published rules are OPTIONAL new rules. I don't want to go out and buy every module that somes out in the chance that some kind of errata may be in there somewhere. If something is so broken in the published rules that errata is needed, it should go into an official SOURCE book, or better yet, a new edition of the game. I don't buy modules, I run my own adventures. > While it still may be possible to play your game, and even get some > enjoyment out of it, several of us tend to agree that you have crippled > magic, and especially sorcery, taking much of the mystery and fun from the > game. Might be possible to enjoy my game? Who the hell are you to tell me or my players what they will or will not enjoy? I've kept this at a friendly level so far, but you have absolutely no idea how my games are run. Keep your personal opinions of me and my game to yourself. In response to the last part of the above statement, we (and everywhere I use "we" in my posts I mean me AND my players) enjoy the fact that magic, and especially sorcerery, in rare in it's more powerful forms, and even bands of glory seeking adventurers will whisper in awe when they come into contact with a rune-level sorcerer. WE LIKE IT THAT WAY!!!! > Every response you write shows how long it has been since you read the > rules to learn what they really said. Once again, you attack me personally, unnecessarily! What have I said that warrants this? Everything so far has been a friendly discussion of perceptions of the rules. I even include things like so there is no mistaken animosity. > You have not been here many months yet, so I would suggest that you go > back to the beginning of this archive and read the posts for the first I have been on the list for over a year. I don't post much, just when I feel I have something to say, or a question to ask. Past conversations on this subject obviously haven't answered the questions, or there would not have been something for me to comment on. > RuneQuest was intended, as a game, to take a young adult up to the level > of competent skill master or Rune Level. This process takes three to six > game years, depending on the style of the referee and the pace of the > game, unless the players avoid adventure and learning. Once again, in my limited knowledge of the rules, I cannot find any reference to this. In fact Cormac, the most used example character, doesn't become much of a hero at all. I freely admit that I don't have the entire Deluxe 3rd Edition rules memorized; until about eight months ago I was only a player. We play RQ3 the way we were showed to play by our GM, and he still runs his campaign more than I do. I only started GMing because he wanted to play every once in a while. I ran my game the first friday of each month, with him running his the other fridays. Two months ago we increased my game to the first two fridays of each month, because the players were really enjoying it. Apparently though, despite the fact that we have played RQ3 this way for the better part of three years, and we have all enjoyed it emmensily, we are doing it wrong, so we can't be having any fun. Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:53:32 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] The Blood of the Gods Rich Allen wrote: > > rare. I need to study up on it more, obviously, but if it costs so > much less to bind a POW spirit than it does to make a POS > storage crystal, why would you make the crystal? In Gloranthan terms, Magic Crystals are literally the crystallized "Blood of the Gods". Nobody makes 'em, they just dig them up. Since it's cheaper to find something than to make it, that's the crux of their popularity. - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 00:17:00 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The Blood of the Gods > In Gloranthan terms, Magic Crystals are literally the crystallized > "Blood of the Gods". Nobody makes 'em, they just dig them up. Since it's > cheaper to find something than to make it, that's the crux of their > popularity. Well, I was under the impression that POW storage crystals, along with POW storage rings, POW storage pendants, etc. were created through the use of the Magic Point Matrix Enchantment. That's how I read the rules on that spell, anyway. I understand a lot of Gloranthan history has to do with gods in physical form doing battle, etc., but what if you're not playing in Glorantha? I realize RQ is "meant" to be played in Glorantha, but the RQ3 deluxe edition is written to be played on any game world, with Glorantha being only one of many choices... Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 11:38:15 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The Blood of the Gods Rich Allen wrote: > > Well, I was under the impression that POW storage crystals, along > with POW storage rings, POW storage pendants, etc. were > created through the use of the Magic Point Matrix Enchantment. MPME can certainly be used for this purpose,, but the crystals are generally seen as an almost "mineable" resource. I realize from a previous post that you don't have the modules, which tells me that you've missed the "in game" discoveries of veins of GodsBlood crystals in at least one of them (Borderlands?). While I am unlikely to ever run the mods "as writ", they do keep me supplied with ideas and examples of how things are done. > That's how I read the rules on that spell, anyway. I understand a > lot of Gloranthan history has to do with gods in physical form doing > battle, etc., but what if you're not playing in Glorantha? I > realize RQ is "meant" to be played in Glorantha, but the RQ3 > deluxe edition is written to be played on any game world, with > Glorantha being only one of many choices... Any world with gods can have similar events. For my Greyhawk campaign, I'm planning at least one encounter with an avatar, whose blood might yeild some crystals (mind you - nobody would summon an avatar of their own deity for such a purpose, but enemy cults often target temples known to be inhabited by an avatar for just such a purpose....) - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #8 *********************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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