From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #11 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, January 19 1999 Volume 02 : Number 011 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Re: RQ3 Errata Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerers and spirits Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerers and spirits Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerers and spirits [RQ-RULES] Errata armor rules Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerers and spirits Re: [RQ-RULES] Errata armor rules [RQ-RULES] Summoning Re: [RQ-RULES] Summoning RE: [RQ-RULES] Errata armor rules Re: [RQ-RULES] Errata armor rules Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 14:21:40 -0500 From: "Loren Miller" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: RQ3 Errata The RQ3 Errata are at http://rider.wharton.upenn.edu/~loren/Rolegame/errata-rq3.html - -- +++++++++++++++++++++++23 Loren Miller "If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms." --Henry Miller, _The Colossus of Maroussi_ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:27:13 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerers and spirits Rich Allen wrote: > > > starting characters. Ok, you can have a familiar, but their main use is > > for secondary free INT. If you're going to make it arnbitrarily more > > Not possible under the rules, errata or not. How so? The rules state specificly that a sorcerer can utilize the familiar's INT to store spells; his magic points are available as well. - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:38:15 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerers and spirits Rich Allen wrote: > > We were talking about individuals, casting a normal summon > POW spirit spell, though. Say have the Free INT necessary to add > 15 MP to the casting cost of the summon ritual; you are covered > for any type of mundane POW spirit you may summon. But say > your particular ritual summons one of the more powerful spirits > instead, say one with 35 POW. Since you only pumped an > additional 15 points into the spell, the summoning spell will > automatically fail, you lose some MP, and you have to start all over. I think you're overlooking the fact that the Summons can be tailored (somewhat) to the size of creature you wish to obtain. If you spent 5 hours/5 magic points in a POW spirit summoning ritual, unless you fumble the roll, a POW spirit of only 1-5 POW arrives (excepting the 10% rule for more powerful critters). Larger creatures cause the ritual to fail automatically, under normal circumstances. - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 17:09:07 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerers and spirits > I think you're overlooking the fact that the Summons can be tailored > (somewhat) to the size of creature you wish to obtain. If you spent 5 > hours/5 magic points in a POW spirit summoning ritual, unless you fumble > the roll, a POW spirit of only 1-5 POW arrives (excepting the 10% rule for > more powerful critters). Larger creatures cause the ritual to fail > automatically, under normal circumstances. Actually, this is exactly what I've been saying. So how does a sorcerer end up with a 100 POW spirit bound into an enchantment by chance, as was stated in a previous post? The answer is, it's not possible unless the sorcerer pumped 100 extra MP into the ritual at the start. That's all I've been trying to say. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 20:58:42 -0500 From: "Jim Bickmeyer" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Errata armor rules Looking at the Official RQ3 Errata, (pointed to by Loren Miller, thank Loren) I found the following: Points for Overlapping Armor As described above, it is possible to wear soft armor under another armor to provide added protection. Hard armor may not be worn under any other type of armor. In any case, the outer layer of armor must be heavier than the inner (i.e., have more armor points). The interior soft armor adds its normal AP to the total armor at TWICE normal ENC cost. To me that read that it is possible to place chain male under plate now. It is even possible to layer light leather, chain and plate for a total of 16 AP. To me this is more in line with Middle Ages armor, not the Dark Ages I have always believed RQ to relate to. I am not sure I like this errata. I know that my players will like it, if they arm themselves this way for a big fight. Jim Bickmeyer *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 21:59:23 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerers and spirits Rich Allen wrote: > > Actually, this is exactly what I've been saying. So how does a > sorcerer end up with a 100 POW spirit bound into an enchantment > by chance, as was stated in a previous post? The answer is, it's > not possible unless the sorcerer pumped 100 extra MP into the > ritual at the start. That's all I've been trying to say. I could dig back into the thread, but why does the sorcerer in question WANT a POW 100 spirit, in the first place? 5 20 POW spirits would give the same mp, and would be a heck of alot easier to bind in the first place. Granted, on an odd roll, even on a 5 hour summoning ritual, a 100 POW spirit could arrive - but who could dominate it? - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:15:12 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Errata armor rules Jim Bickmeyer wrote: > > To me that read that it is possible to place chain male under plate now. It > is even possible to layer light leather, chain and plate for a total of 16 > AP. Which, if my memory serves me, was done in certain circumstances. > To me this is more in line with Middle Ages armor, not the Dark Ages I have > always believed RQ to relate to. I am not sure I like this errata. I know > that my players will like it, if they arm themselves this way for a big > fight. Armor control is more a function of the GM, I've found. In the RW, folks did not run around in armor if they absolutely didn't have to. Knights (who had the best armor) would take exception to someone "beneath their station" who wore armor equivalent to theirs (something I plan to use in my Greyhawk campaign - various knighthoods will hear about anyone wearing anything better than chain!) And of course, the city watch responds to anyone who looks like they're armed for a fight by giving them one. - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:24:57 -0500 From: Andrew Barton Subject: [RQ-RULES] Summoning > And no RQ sorcerer I > have ever heard of or read about would pump an extra 100 MP into > the summon spell on the off chance a 100 POW spirit is > summoned, or would even be capable of doing so. This issue arises for all types of magicians who do summoning, not just sorcerors. Bear in mind that for each MP put into the Summoning spell, the ritual takes an extra hour. If you want to use ceremony as well, you can easily get a summoning ritual taking several days. My wife and I recently generated a pair of characters, also husband and wife, who act as a team for summonings. She casts summoning spells taking 36 hours, he knows spells to restore her fatigue and casts them every few hours. As for the 10% chance of high power creatures turning up, I take it that when this happens their attention has been attracted by the summoning and they appear voluntarily, so they are not limited by the MP expended in the summoning. Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Jan 1999 22:43:33 -0600 From: "Paul Stolar" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Summoning I have also played it that if the big critter shows up, that overrides the limit. - -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Barton To: INTERNET:runequest-rules@mpgn.com Date: Monday, January 18, 1999 9:36 PM Subject: [RQ-RULES] Summoning >> And no RQ sorcerer I >> have ever heard of or read about would pump an extra 100 MP into >> the summon spell on the off chance a 100 POW spirit is >> summoned, or would even be capable of doing so. > >This issue arises for all types of magicians who do summoning, >not just sorcerors. Bear in mind that for each MP put into the >Summoning spell, the ritual takes an extra hour. >If you want to use ceremony as well, you can easily get a >summoning ritual taking several days. > >My wife and I recently generated a pair of characters, also >husband and wife, who act as a team for summonings. >She casts summoning spells taking 36 hours, he knows >spells to restore her fatigue and casts them every few hours. > >As for the 10% chance of high power creatures turning up, >I take it that when this happens their attention has been >attracted by the summoning and they appear voluntarily, >so they are not limited by the MP expended in the summoning. > >Andrew > >*************************************************************************** >To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line >'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:13:05 -0000 From: Ashley Munday Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Errata armor rules You always could wear chain under plate, even under the "out of the box rules." The encumbrance cost was less (normal rather than double) though. As one of my players Adventurers wears a chain hauberk under plate in times of strife I decided not to take this particular "correction" to heart and consigned it to the bin. Ash *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 12:27:37 +0100 From: "Terje Tollisen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Errata armor rules Jim Bickmeyer: > To me that read that it is possible to place chain male under plate now. > It is even possible to layer light leather, chain and plate for a total of 16 AP. > > To me this is more in line with Middle Ages armor, not the Dark Ages I have > always believed RQ to relate to. I agree this is a sounds like a Middle Age armor "configuration". But RQ is only a game system and can be used in all periodes. Ok, it is made mostly for Glorantha, but it is not limited to that world. In Glorantha however you would probably not find this combination of armor; perhaps in parts of the West. As Glorantha is close to RW bronze age I would not allow this type of armor to be used but in very special cases. Come to think of it, bronze age cultures would probably only have low quality plate armor which is not suited for wearing much underneath. - -Terje "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." -Tanenbaum ********************* Terje Tollisen Kjelsaasveien 99 0491 OSLO Norway ********************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 11:32:43 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Why Sorcerers Build Magic Point Matrices Ashley Munday : >Another thing to note: The Adventurer commonly used 6 spells, 7 with his >magic point matrix enchantment. This left him a Free INT of 10, so by the >time he'd learnt Binding Enchantment, Control POW spirit and Summon >POW spirit he only had 7 left. Even after summoning he could only manage an >Intensity 8 Control POW spirit so he was fairly lucky to manage it first >time. I think step number one for any sorcerer character is realy 'create familiar'. Its a fairly low-risk spell and it gets you both extra Free INT and an MP reservoir. It's very good value, even at the cost of a point of INT. Rich Allen: > I stand by my statement that a sorcerer cannot cast Damage >Resist 20, Damage Boosting 20, and Spell Resist 20 in any useful >period of time. Probably not, but 15 points is certainly doable. Why you would want to cast all three spells on the same traget is a mystery to me though. > The only possible way to accomplish this would be to have an >item (or items) enchanted with these spells at high levels of >intensity, each of which requires sacrificing lots of POW to produce. Yep, but nice if you can get them. >I don't make it difficult to obtain or even create external MP >sources. Other than by inflicting meg-puinisher spirits on sorcerers who use the spirit summoning rules, restricting the availability of powered crystals over and above their frequency in published scenarios, and restricting use of MPs in stored items to the people who stored them, of course. BTW in the latter case if I come across a 10 point MPME with 10 MPs stored in it, according to your rules I can't use the MPs. Does that mean that the enchantment is useless to me? After all I can't put my own MPs into it because it's already full? Effectively it's a useless lump. If it only had 5MPs in it at the time, then I would only ever be able to use it as a 5 point MPME. Is that right? In fact there must be loads of partialy filled up matrices and crystals lying about, the pre-filled parts of which can never be used because the person who filled them is dead. >The point is that only very powerful sorcerers can afford to make MPMEs, >due to the number of POW that must be sacrificed. Perhaps in your game, but most sorcerers will get a POW check per session most of the time. That probably equates to a point of POW every three or four sessions, which gives 1D10 MPs worth of storage. I've never had any great difficulty building up the MP reserves of any of my characters, using the standard rules as writ, and neither have any of the characters in my games. In fact an MPME is often one of the first things a sorcerer character will do after getting a familiar. They desperately need the MPs and with a lower POW their POW gain rolls are more likely to succeed. >These items are very rarely sold, due to the high price a sorcerer would place >on his own POW. For an adventurer yes, but there are likely to be some non-adventurer sorcerers, or retiring wizards, who could use the money. >The rules doo not specify the opposite, either, so how are we >changing rules? In fact, the rule states that "the user of the item" >can move his MP's into the item. We choose to interpret that as >the person attuned to the crystal. You don't. Both are correct, as >far as the rules go. What's this got to do with crystals? I thought we were talking about enchantments, which only have to be touched to be used (unless they have conditions on them). Crystals can only be used by the person they are attuned to, but they can be re-attuned by a new user who is then 'the user of the item' and can do what he likes with it. >What rules have I proposed changing? We have created rules to fill >in gaps that weren't covered in the published rule books. and I quote : { We rule that MP's stored in a crystal (or any other magic point {matrix item) can only be used by the individual that put them there, {and only one person's MP's can be in an MPMatrix at a time. { I don't allow sorcerers (or priests) to summon spirits with the {Summon(creature) spell. If you allow that, there's really no need {for the Shaman as a player character. And those are just the obvious ones. >> As a side note, the stats for extra powerfull versions of spirits can be >> found in the various spirit plane encounter tables. > >Where are these tables? The encounter table for the "Inner >Region" of the spirit plane....... Er... I think you just answered your own question....... > ...We were talking about individuals, casting a normal summon >POW spirit spell, though. Say have the Free INT necessary to add >15 MP to the casting cost of the summon ritual; you are covered >for any type of mundane POW spirit you may summon. I think you'll find that you don't have to increase the intensity of the summon spell to put more MPs into it, any more than a shaman has to cast a 15 point spirit spell to summon a POW 15 spirit. You cast the spell first _then_ you sacrifice the MPs to summon the spirit. I admit it's not totaly clear in the rules paragraph, but the example given in the side bar is pretty clear. >> > starting characters. Ok, you can have a familiar, but their main use is >> > for secondary free INT. If you're going to make it arnbitrarily more >> >> Not possible under the rules, errata or not. > >To clarify my own statement... The Free INT of a familiar can only >be used to learn spells, it cannot be used as additional Free INT >when determining the limitations of manipulating sorcerery spells. I know, that's what it says in the rule book. Did I say otherwise?...... No, I didn't think so. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #11 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.