From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #18 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, January 26 1999 Volume 02 : Number 018 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Character starting experience Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerery rules Re: [RQ-RULES] Character starting experience RE: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence RE: [RQ-RULES] Character starting experience [RQ-RULES] Sorcerers and spirits RE: [RQ-RULES] Character starting experience Re: [RQ-RULES] Character starting experience Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerery rules RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:44:39 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Character starting experience > Rich Allen : > >See above. We basically extend the attuning rules of crystals to > >cover all MPME. YCMV. > > Ah! I see - what was that you said about playing within the rules as > written? I stand corrected. We have changed one rule, but only in regards to MPME. Spell Matrix Enchantments work as written, etc. It was taught to us that way when we learned RQ, so I never questioned it. > You pump in the MPs, but that doesn't mean that to put in 15 MPs you > need to know a 15 point spell. The rules for backing up spells with > 'extra' magic points over and above the points of the spell are given in > the relevant section on spell casting. There are no other sorcerey spells that allow you to add MP's to a spell to increase its potency, unless those MP's are used to increase the Intensity of the spell. Why would this one spell be any different? The rules you speak of are for Spirit magicians, not sorcerers. > Your copy of Deluxe edition doesn't have the side bar description of > Nikolos summoning a Nymph? Interesting! It's in both the old boxed > edition and in my all-in-one softback copy of the deluxe edition. Nope. I have a huge picture of Nikolas summoning a Nymph, with two sentences that say nothing about the summoning rules. Where at in your books is this example? A friend of mine has the softback edition of the deluxe rules so I can look it up. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 18:24:33 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerery rules From: "Rich Allen" I was just trying to get my brain around that 20 DB, 20 DR, 20 SR walking sorcerer of death and it wasn't happening. Maybe not, but I can easily see a party with with a sorcerer walking around with 10 DB, 10 DR, 10 SR, and what not on every piece of equipment they own, as well as, then casting spirit magic on top of this. And yes, I know you will start to bring up what spells which dothe same thing do not stack, but most sorcery spells are different enought what the benifits will become cumalative such as in Spell Resistance and Counter Magic. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:12:26 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Character starting experience Rich Allen wrote: > > There are no other sorcerey spells that allow you to add MP's to a > spell to increase its potency, unless those MP's are used to > increase the Intensity of the spell. Why would this one spell be > any different? The rules you speak of are for Spirit magicians, not > sorcerers. RQ3 Deluxe Rules, SCpg# 93/MBpg# 9, to whit: "Total Magic Points (For sorcerers, total magic points equal the intensity of the spell plus extra magic points used to boost the spell plus manipulation costs)" Spell boosting is for everybody. - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:56:24 -0000 From: Ashley Munday Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence Au contraire old son! It all depends on your campaign and the "master's" attitude to the Adventurer. Junior priests in most games I've played tend to be sent out all the time by the hierachy to do potentially dangerous things. "We've just heard that a has been located in a stronghold. We need volunteers for Mission Certain Death. You're not doing anything are you?" Even initiates can be dragged in: "Guess what? You're not weeding the temple garden for your 40 days cult service this year. You're old enough now to accompany Wind Lord Kill-All-Lunars-In-Sight Sigurd when he takes delivers the clans tribute to I've-Seen-The-Light-Of-The-Goddess Snori who sold out to the occupation forces. Oh, let's not have any diplomatic incidents on the way please?" An assistant shaman gets to do all the dirty work for the tribal shaman - "I'm not leaving the tribe, but this here raiding party needs someone to look after them." An apprentice does much the same thing: "I fancy 20 Rothmans. Trouble is the only place they can be found is Dagori Inkarth. Here's 1000 guilders, go buy me a pack." All this 90% time, 50% time, 10% time is a godsend for the referee. With it you can get your Adventurers to do all sorts of things they'd normally run away from squealing or not touch due to the lack of perceived benefit for them. Ash -----Original Message----- From: Rich Allen [mailto:rico@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:27 PM To: runequest-rules@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hold vs. Presence > > Not to mention the fact > > that the point of POW sacrificed to the teacher, or the teacher's > > familiar, creates a bond that makes it pretty much imposible for the > > apprentice to sneak out for a quick adventure. ^^^^^^^^^^^ > The rules specifically state that it allows the mage to call to the > apprentice, no matter how far away. It doesn't provide any information > regarding location, or intentions, and it doesn't force obedience. My intention of the above paragraph goes something like this: The master tells the apprentice he has to spend the next week cleaning out the tower, weeding the garden, and studying the Intensity skill, with no breaks and no leaving the tower, while the master is away. The apprentice wants to go on an adventure with his buddies, but knows that if he does, his master can locate him via the bond and punish him if he has disobeyed, and can even, I imagine, break off the apprenticeship. And yes, the rules do say that via the bond, the master's familiar, and the master, can find teh apprentice wherever his is. "..able to find or issue a gentle call.." In my opinion, apprentices, acolytes, and assistant shamans are very limited in their possible role as adventurers, as compared to most of the other "occupations" listed in the previous experience rules. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:56:24 -0000 From: Ashley Munday Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Character starting experience No they're not. All ritual magic spells work the same way for all practitioners of magic. Summons all take 1 magic point per point of whatever you want to summon. You don't need Summon POW spirit 15 as a shaman to summon a 15 mpt POW spirit, just the same as you don't need 15 levels of Intensity to as a sorcerer. Likewise Enchant. If you want to create a binding enchantment for a magic spirit, you don't need Create Binding Enchantment 2 as a spirit magician or 2 levels of intensity as a sorcerer. Ash -----Original Message----- From: Rich Allen [mailto:rico@mindspring.com] Sent: Monday, January 25, 1999 11:45 PM To: runequest-rules@MPGN.COM Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Character starting experience > Rich Allen : > >See above. We basically extend the attuning rules of crystals to > >cover all MPME. YCMV. > > Ah! I see - what was that you said about playing within the rules as > written? I stand corrected. We have changed one rule, but only in regards to MPME. Spell Matrix Enchantments work as written, etc. It was taught to us that way when we learned RQ, so I never questioned it. > You pump in the MPs, but that doesn't mean that to put in 15 MPs you > need to know a 15 point spell. The rules for backing up spells with > 'extra' magic points over and above the points of the spell are given in > the relevant section on spell casting. There are no other sorcerey spells that allow you to add MP's to a spell to increase its potency, unless those MP's are used to increase the Intensity of the spell. Why would this one spell be any different? The rules you speak of are for Spirit magicians, not sorcerers. > Your copy of Deluxe edition doesn't have the side bar description of > Nikolos summoning a Nymph? Interesting! It's in both the old boxed > edition and in my all-in-one softback copy of the deluxe edition. Nope. I have a huge picture of Nikolas summoning a Nymph, with two sentences that say nothing about the summoning rules. Where at in your books is this example? A friend of mine has the softback edition of the deluxe rules so I can look it up. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:08:08 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerers and spirits Bob Stancliff : > The point was that the sorcerer considers spirits to be tool and things, >not 'living'. Therefore it is an easy extension to the step of making >powered devices (powered by spirits). He knows he needs recharging >batteries for Mana so he will take a MP crystal and attach a POW spirit to >recharge it. This is complicated somewhat in Glorantha. Many orthodox Malkioni will avoid dealing with spirits, as demonology was a crime known to be perpetrated by the God Learners and there is still likely to be a lot of distrust of such methods. Even if this perception is false, it's still likely to be popular. Henotheists or stygians may be less concerned about that though. I don't know about carmanians either. However, as you point out, dealing with spirits is hideously dangerous. Streight by-the-rules sorcerers have the weakest spirit combat defense spell, and once they're posessed it's all over. That's not good odds. Rich Allen : > My intention of the above paragraph goes something like this: >The master tells the apprentice he has to spend the next week >cleaning out the tower, weeding the garden, and studying the >Intensity skill, with no breaks and no leaving the tower, while the >master is away. Of course, if you insist that all players who run sorcerer character have to start play still working for their master then this is a problem. If you don't, then it isn't. > In my opinion, apprentices, acolytes, and assistant shamans >are very limited in their possible role as adventurers, as compared >to most of the other "occupations" listed in the previous experience >rules. That depends entirely on the campaign. In the game I'm currently running in Karse all the characters are Lunars and are on a diplomatic mission from Fazzur Wideread. They are on cult business right now, so the fact that one of them is a runelord and another is a priest isn't a problem. Even without doing it this way, Acolytes still have 50% of their time to themselves and similar liberties apply to the others too. All apprentice sorcerers and assistant shamans eventualy leave their tutor to make their way in the world. Why can't your adventurers just do that? After all, the occupations are only the characters last occupation, otherwise merchant characetrs would have to spend all their time running a shop, soldiers would spend all their time in barracks, going on parades or out on campaign in their regiment. If you as GM choose to force your players into a particular social situation, then that is your choice. You can't use the rules to beat on people and then deny responsibility, after all it's your game. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 11:27:17 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Character starting experience >If you want to create a binding enchantment for a magic >spirit, you don't need Create Binding Enchantment 2 as >a spirit magician or 2 levels of intensity as a sorcerer. Intensity is not used in Summoning under RQ3 Sorcery rules, but it is under Sandy's. Sandy's Rules (ritual.doc): Spirit Magic All ritual spells are variable spells. Rune Magic All ritual spells are stackable and reusable. The "points" in a ritual spell are rolled when the spell is cast, and are equal to 6 per point in the Rune spell. Sorcery Unless otherwise specified, the arts of Ease, Hold, Multispell, and Speed cannot be used in ritual magic. The "points" in a ritual spell are considered to be the Intensity at which it is cast. SUMMON [species] Summons Lets the caster summon a creature from the Otherworld. The total points in the Summon must be at least 1 per 1d6 of the summoned creature's MPs. An add to the creature's MPs (such as 1d6+6) costs a +1 per 6 points of the add. Thus a krarshtkid with a POW of 2d6+12 requires a Summon 4; two for the 2d6, and two for the +12. philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:16:28 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Character starting experience > > You pump in the MPs, but that doesn't mean that to put in 15 MPs you > > need to know a 15 point spell. The rules for backing up spells with > > 'extra' magic points over and above the points of the spell are given in > > the relevant section on spell casting. > > There are no other sorcerey spells that allow you to add MP's to a > spell to increase its potency, unless those MP's are used to > increase the Intensity of the spell. Why would this one spell be > any different? The rules you speak of are for Spirit magicians, not > sorcerers. Sorcery spells can be boosted with MP's to knock down counter-magic just like spirit spells, but that isn't the point with rituals. A summoning requires one hour plus one hour per MP invested to open the gate. You determine the max size that you want before casting, and if none of the catastrophes occur, a spirit is rolled up and the POW or MP's are compared to the gate size... if the spirit is smaller, it comes in, otherwise it leaves. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:07:54 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerery rules > Leon Kirshtein > Maybe not, but I can easily see a party with with a sorcerer walking > around with 10 DB, 10 DR, 10 SR, and what not on every piece of > equipment they own, as well as, then casting spirit magic on top of > this. And yes, I know you will start to bring up that spells which > do the same thing do not stack, but most sorcery spells are different > enought that the benefits will not become cumulative such as in Spell > Resistance and Counter Magic. No, actually, the problem is that the same spells from different forms of magic DO stack. There are no restrictions to having Bladesharp, Damage Boost, and Truesword on at the same time, or Spirit Screen, Spirit Block, and Resist Spirit!! I know from my game that this gets very out of hand. I would strongly recommend changing Resist Damage to occur after armor since it is easier for an Orlanthi, Humakti, or any spirit magician to get 20 points of damage than it is for a sorcerer to get 20 points of Resist Damage. A Resist Damage 20 wouldn't even slow down my players' weapons when they regularly dish out over 25 damage per hit. I would strongly suggest that if you are starting a new campaign, do not let the spells of differing forms of magic add together, and forbid theists from learning or using any magic that is not from their cult or an 'allied' or 'friendly' cult in the same pantheon (neutral or enemy cult magic is out even for magic items). I would also suggest a 'rune point' system or recoverable initiate rune magic (once per year) to encourage occasional rune magic usage instead of saving it all for priesthood. Example from Recent History: I have just recently culminated the fifth year of my campaign by running the 'Cradle Adventure' from the old Pavis box. The heroes have gone three and a half game years since I started. Eight of the ten toughest PC's and NPC's in the party went to fight the lunar army of Pavis and keep them from taking the cradle. The hero force included an Orlanth acolyte, a Eurmal acolyte (with Strikes), a Babeester Gor (with Axe Trance), and a Path of Immanent Mastery human/dragon with spells extended for over a week (he never left dragon form). The armor ranged from AP5 on limbs to AP10 otherwise. The Protection spells ranged from 5 to 8. The Bladesharp spells ranged from 4 to 7. Everyone had Strength 3, Vigor 2+, Coordinate 3+, and Endurance. Most of the spells were cast by bound spirits so encumbrance mattered very little. Three of the heroes were augmented by Damage Boost 5 lasting one or two seasons, some Resist Spirit, and one of them had a Truesword matrix. With four NPC spearmen for backup, they defended the front third of the boat (the strongest point of attack), and took no losses. One or two would go down on occasion, but I usually had to critical to hurt them. They each had 2 to 4 Strengthening Enchantments they had cast on each other over the last two game years, and even a critical wouldn't put them out of the fight permanently. The damage monster had a 2H Sword (2d8?) + Truesword (2d8) + Strength (2d6) + BldShrp 7 + DmgBoost 5. He would cut through the Hoplite Shield, the Chainmail, and the location, on every hit (with an attack of 145%). He was intentionally running toward any Yanafel Tarnils leaders to claim personal combat. He and the Babeester Gor (with a poleax) would take two attack actions and split the first for three total attacks on SR 4, 7, and 10. These two had the best defenses and could ignore the first 16 to 18 points of damage. The Lunar hoplites had Fireblade on spears with 1d6 Strength. It was 4d6, but no impales. Normal damage might hurt if the parry failed, but criticals were the only incapacitating wounds, and only if the parry failed. The story is strung out over five major fights and the Lunars were trashed in every case. They couldn't get enough men on board to keep up with attrition except at the point outside Pavis where the other Orlanthi defenders are forced to retreat below deck. Even then I had trouble convincing them that retreat was needed. My most useful tactic was for four soldiers to grapple one hero and try to pin him. I figured that if two could get a good grip, one of the others could get an automatic critical. That made them worry because they had trouble using their enhanced weapons while being grappled. I also had to keep proving to them that they were still vulnerable to magic even though they had CounterMagic 4 to 6 up. The story line was not nice to Lunar soldiers anyway. Many attackers were killed or maimed just taking down the cradle's defenses, and over 100 were swept under the hull at one point or another. The tally was about 900 soldiers and mercenaries drowned, crushed, maimed, or killed and 30 Orlanthi maimed or killed along with an unknown number of River folk attacked by Dragonnewt mercenaries in the water. It will take the Count's sorcerer most of the next year to cast enough regenerates to return all of the maimed to active duty. The Pavis hospital had to be moved into the Lunar barracks for several weeks to have bed space for the 600 wounded soldiers, most of whom had limbs missing or maimed. All told, it was very tedious and confusing, but the players loved it... being a 'rune level' against normal soldiers can give you a feeling of great power, and the players have already proved that they can kill most rune lords unless powerful attack spells are successfully used against them. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #18 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.