From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #20 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, January 27 1999 Volume 02 : Number 020 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Yanafel Tarnils Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerery rules Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerous familiars Re: [RQ-RULES] Rules Contradiction Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerery rules [RQ-RULES] Terje: Yanafel Tarnils, Can somebody give me any detail on? [RQ-RULES] Cradle attackers can never bring overwhelming odds to bear. Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerery rules Re: [RQ-RULES] Cradle attackers can never bring RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:51:02 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: [RQ-RULES] Yanafel Tarnils Terje : >Can somebody give me any detail on Yanafel Tarnils ? >I know it is a Lunar cult for warriors and soldier, and that it has >similarities with the Humakt cult. Are there any writ ups for it on >the web? There is a full scale writeup in a recent issue of Tales. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:05:11 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerery rules > > I would also suggest a 'rune point' system or > >recoverable initiate rune magic (once per year) to encourage occasional > >rune magic usage instead of saving it all for priesthood. > > The recoverable initiate rune magic even once per year makes the > characters more dangerous when they do become acolytes or priests. It puts a lot of character into theists to be able to use divine magic when they need to. Now, most theists are really just spirit magicians limited to cult spells. > >The hero force included an Orlanth acolyte, a Eurmal > >acolyte (with Strikes) > > All Eurmals are acolytes and you are asking for trouble by giving them > that spell. I will not argue that it is a problem spell, but so is Sever Spirit, Madness, Mind Blast, and Lightning. The two B.Gor axe spells are hideous too. Rune magic is meant to be tough, it is focused POW. > > , a Babeester Gor (with Axe Trance), and a Path of > >Immanent Mastery human/dragon > > How did he fit into this group of Barbarians? He is Orlanthi by birth, the issue is deeply tied into the story line. I run the Path as the mundane form of the EWF dragon magic. It was carried by Gods Learners to Kralorela to create the 'false' Dragon Empire and stayed around among the peasants when the dragon emperor awoke. The character is being taught by the Dragonnewts for subtle karmic reasons tied to the coming hero wars. > > with spells extended for over a week (he > >never left dragon form). > > One Dismiss Magic should take care of this nicely. Think about it. The intensity is all of the stacked spells added together. Dismiss Magic 12+?? > Leon Kirshtein adds several comments on the use of enemy magic to affect a fight. These are good ideas, but I also felt constrained to the nature of the Pavis campaign... The lunar occupation force is 1500 troop scattered in garrisons along the river. There are about 500 in other mercenary groups paid by the lunar army. The Pavis module emphasizes that sorcerers enter this land at their own risk. One sorcerer is 'reputed' to be in the Count's retinue, there is one listed in 'River of Cradles', and since we had the Coders from 'Shadows on the Borderland' arrive previously, there is one there. I placed the Coders at Corflu, for this story, to be the Wyvern riders that have to be driven back. There is also an advanced apprentice in the hero group (not on the Cradle) who cast the hero's Damage Boost 5's with long Duration. The point is that sorcery is not currently significant is the Pavis area since it is too rare. It was provided to some of the elite troops, but was spread too thin to have a direct affect, and was not used in attack, except at Corflu. Leon assumes that priests will have large numbers of Dismiss spells and suggests using them liberally. I don't see them being popular enough, compared to other spells, for someone to have more than about 4. Perhaps he figures that priests gain more POW per year than I do, and would have more to spend on spells. The merc groups were used first to take down the cradle magic defenses (at great loss). There is not a lot of high level magical support here, it is all theist, since they are local mercs, and they were too busy spell casting from shore, weakening the magic defenses, to board the boat and help the fighting. Outside Pavis, the best magicians wore themselves out casting the ritual that stopped the cradle. There were several Yanafel lords who would not board until, or unless, the fight started to go bad. This did happen, and one player was Mind Blasted, while three Lunar officers were maimed or killed. Sever Spirit was not available due to the moon phase. Since all of the boarding soldiers were getting spells cast on them by others, the Lunar war priests and monitors were casting a lot of support magic using MP's from the soldiers that were not permitted to board (they were too new or untrustworthy). This allowed the boarding soldiers to have their full MP's, but since they were not trained magicians, they had only minor personal spells and no time to use them. An occasional Dispel was thrown, and the PC would put the spell back up ASAP. The PC access to MP's is measured in the hundreds, not tens. Several of them can put up 50 MP's of spells 2 or 3 times, with points left over, and never use their own MP's. Many of these points were put to good use dispelling the Glue spells on the boarding ladders so that they could be pushed off. So, during most of the fights, Lunar rune levels were too busy to help the fight, and the few that did were quickly worn down. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:14:07 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerous familiars > The rules as written only allow you to put Intensity into matrices, > which don't help as much when using long-range projections. > OTOH, Halcyon, as written up in Griffin Island, has matrices > which contain range and duration. > Andrew Sorry, Andrew, Griffin Island is right. The rules do allow Range or Duration to be enchanted with the same costs as Intensity. They also allow any further manipulation possible to the caster when he uses the matrix, and nothing prevents one or more matrices from being the spell sources for MultiSpell. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 11:21:36 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Rules Contradiction > I found a direct contradiction in the RQ rules at the weekend. Under the > Divine Magic procedure, it says that spells are cast on the caster's DEX SR, > and a second spell can be cast on DEX SR + 3 after that. Under Illusions, it > says that these spells and Extension are the only exceptions to the rule > that only one divine magic spell can be cast in a melee round. It seems to > me that the rule about only one spell per MR was dropped, but the exception > to a now obsolete rule was kept. > philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk This may be a confusion between MR and SR. Stacked spells, including Illusions and Extension, are cast in the same SR and count as a single spell. The other rule may be dealing with whether you can cast another spell that MR, and this would not be a contradiction, just a typo error. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:49:25 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerery rules >From: "Bob Stancliff" > >> The recoverable initiate rune magic even once per year makes the >> characters more dangerous when they do become acolytes or priests. > It puts a lot of character into theists to be able to use divine magic >when they need to. Now, most theists are really just spirit magicians >limited to cult spells. In terms of spell casting yes, but character is build by actions and not what magic you can cast. Anyway both ways have advantages and pitfalls. I would say that the style of play should determine this issue. If the characters are to spend the majority of their life as initiates then by all means give them recoverable rune magic. But if, on the other hand, the campaing will continue after they become rune levels for a lenght of time I think the standard way is better. >> All Eurmals are acolytes and you are asking for trouble by giving them >> that spell. > I will not argue that it is a problem spell, but so is Sever Spirit, >Madness, Mind Blast, and Lightning. The two B.Gor axe spells are hideous >too. I see Sever Spirit as a problem only if given to initiates. What do you see as the problem with the other spells? > >> > with spells extended for over a week (he >> >never left dragon form). >> >> One Dismiss Magic should take care of this nicely. > Think about it. The intensity is all of the stacked spells added >together. Dismiss Magic 12+?? That is a lot, doable but a lot. May I suggest Multispelled Neutralize Magic 1 to give a character fits (Yes each one has only 1% of success but you can throw a lot of them.) > >I also felt constrained to the nature of the Pavis campaign... This is the true reason for the success of the characters in most campaings ---> GM setup a situation were players have an above average chance of winning against what appear to be overwhelming odds. Leon Kirshtein ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 13:26:03 -0500 From: Brad Furst Subject: [RQ-RULES] Terje: Yanafel Tarnils, Can somebody give me any detail on? At 09:37 AM 1/27/99 -0500, Bob Stancliff wrote: >> Can somebody give me any detail on Yanafel Tarnils ? >> I know it is a Lunar cult for warriors and soldier, and that it has >> similarities with the Humakt cult. Are there any writ ups for it on the >> web? >> -Terje > There might be, someone has certainly done a fanzine article for it by >now. Yanafel Tarnils was a Humakti who went renegade and won freedom from >his cult restrictions by using Red Goddess hero-questing. > We make a rough variant by starting with Humakt, dropping the resurrection >restriction and the anti-undead powers, and then making it red moon >variable as per the 7 Mothers write-up in the Cults book. I think most publications (including RQ4:AiG) - made Sever Spirit into one-use-only for YT. - dropped access to Berserk - kept access to Turn Undead - dropped access to Detect Undead - matched Heal availability to restrictions of Waha in _C_o_Prax_ - Gift&Geas is optional for YT - Chaos Gift is available through allied Red Goddess Brad Furst esoteric@teleport.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:04:18 -0500 From: Brad Furst Subject: [RQ-RULES] Cradle attackers can never bring overwhelming odds to bear. At 09:37 AM 1/27/99 -0500, Bob Stancliff wrote: >> Ash: " >> As a contrary example to Bob's "Cradle Hack-A-Thon", some of the group I >> play in have Adventurers that have been around 15 game years and none of >> them would be able to handle "The Cradle." Usually 4 to one odds (with >> competent warriors) scares seven bails of shit out of us >> and we head for the >> hills." >It is a very interesting scenario series to try to run. Most of the >fighting never got much more than 1:1, or 3:2 in local areas. The soldiers >had a few 2 or 3 point spells up, but against rune level spirit magicians, >the balance of power is in the defenders favor. Knockback alone will send >many back into the river. Also, each attack ends as soon as all of the >boarding ladders and ropes are removed, so this keeps the many hundreds of >troops potentially available from ever getting on board. > The Cradle plays as a walled fortification with combat as the attackers >come over the wall. A good walled defense could historically handle 8:1 or >even 15:1 odds for several days because the attackers can never bring >overwhelming odds to bear, 1:1 locally is the best that could be expected. Indeed. My players kept the Glued ladders away by coating the bulwark with blankets that fell away still Glued to the ladders. The defenders' own Stength-6 spells also overcame the Glued ladders. And what did you do about that Tarpaulin, that "huge cover battened to either bulwark"? Did you allow boarding there for one-third of the perimeter of the cradle? I did, but as you say the attackers can never bring overwhelming odds to bear. I did use nearly all of the interpretations and tactics (Dispel, Madness, targeting weapons, etc) mentioned by Leon Kirshstein. and my players' characters won anyway. The Lunars "are supposed to get trashed, it is just a matter of by how much." Mine expended much permanent POW (at one legendary melee round, three divine interventions were diced out according to RQ4:AiG in consecutive Strike Ranks! What a mess!). Mine also especially enjoyed [my recitation of] Greg's desciptions of the special effects and magic which occurred between encounters (such monologues, bereft of player participation, are usually despised and referred to as "dungeon masturbation"). As you said "All told, it was very tedious and confusing, but the players loved it..." Brad Furst esoteric@teleport.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:19:05 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Sorcerery rules > >> The recoverable initiate rune magic even once per year makes the > >> characters more dangerous when they do become acolytes or priests. > > most theists are really just spirit magicians limited to cult spells. > if characters are to spend the majority of their life as initiates then by > all means give them recoverable rune magic. But if, on the other hand, > the campaign will continue after they become rune levels for a lenght of > time I think the standard way is better. The idea is to draw a stronger line between deists and spiritists. Play down, or limit the size of, cult spirit magic and allow more divine magic, by making it recoverable, to fill in the gap. If you really want good spirit magic, you should have to commit your character to being a spirit magician, not a cult initiate. > > I won't argue that Strike isn't a problem spell, but so is Sever Spirit, > > Madness, Fear, Mind Blast, and Lightning. The two B.Gor axe spells are > hideous too. > I see Sever Spirit as a problem only if given to initiates. What do you > see as the problem with the other spells? Strike allows you to basically make your next hit a critical (bypass armor), but without the extra damage. Sever Spirit is instant death, but costs three POW. If it is recoverable, there is no official reason not to let an initiate have it. Madness, Fear, and Mind Blast put a target immediately out of the fight. Madness and Fear wear off quickly, but Mind Blast lasts for days. Lightning is a big Disrupt that is stackable... very tough. Axe Trance is pumped by MP's to get +%'s to hit, +100% or more is not a problem. My B.Gor player can put over 20 MP's into the spell and Extend it. It is spells like these that tend to convince players to have their characters join certain cults. It is hardly fair for you to single out one spell like Strike (or Sever Spirit) and say "I will not let you find that spell", when these others are just as bad in their own way. Letting my player Have a Strike shrine was a bad idea, but I don't see that letting him find Strike is a problem. The difficulty to renew it is penalty enough. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 14:51:49 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Cradle attackers can never bring > Brad Furst wrote > And what did you do about that Tarpaulin, that "huge cover battened to > either bulwark"? Did you allow boarding there for one-third of the > perimeter of the cradle? I did, but as you say the attackers can never > bring overwhelming odds to bear. Yes, I figured that the fabric didn't come all of the way to the edge and was tied off at three or four points on each side. This would leave large gaps along both sides where the boarders could attack normally. I also said that there were fewer attackers in the back third because they couldn't get to the tail of the boat to place grapples and ladders. That justified having the 15 to 18 'normal' Orlanthi back there not get overwhelmed. With young Argrath and his other three rune levels helping the middle and back, they held with moderate losses. I even had Blorn come out just after the first battle to move the tarp 'for better morning light'. It was fun having everyone scatter as the props were removed and the huge tarp came down on anyone too slow. The players would 'ohhh' and 'ahhh' as Blorn untied and dragged it to the new position without help. I had to bump his strength up over 50 to really feel justified in doing this, but who cares. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #20 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.