From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #31 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, February 11 1999 Volume 02 : Number 031 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire [RQ-RULES] $$ [RQ-RULES] Re: Ogres RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs Re: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs Re: [RQ-RULES] Western Islands [RQ-RULES] foul mating practices RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs Re: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 13:34:49 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire > > By saying that the Con is Diminished when the Venom spell acts, > > IS assigning order. > > So is saying that the venom hits the orriginal CON, then the target's > con is reduced. You can't have it both ways. No, I am clearly saying that the effects of a MultiSpell are simultaneous, and that both effects act on the target without gaining any knowledge or advantage from the other spell. They both act on the original CON because that is the CON of the target when they are cast (as specified by their descriptions). No sequence is implied or possible under the definition of simultaneous. > >When simultaneous spells hit the same target, they ignore > >the effects of any other spells and all act against the initial > >condition of the target, as if they were the only spell cast. > > This is assuming that spell effects are truly instantaneous in a literal > sense, as aginast in the context of an artificial game turn sequence. No, you assume instantaneous effects when you say that the CON will already be reduced by the time that the Venom has it's effect. You are assigning sequence to the effects of a MultiSpell, which I consider to be a violation of the intent and spirit. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 12:59:15 -0600 From: Steve Lieb Subject: [RQ-RULES] $$ >As far as I see it, there are three options: > >(a) Effects happen simultaneously as young Bob interprets things; >(b) The caster chooses the order of spell effects happening (as the >Petersonfuhrer implies in the Grimoire); >(c) Choose which one happens first randomly. > >[There is a (d): Write a convoluted set of rules written in the smallest >type face you can about what happens when and flog it as a collectable card >game.] Clearly [D] is by far the most PROFITABLE choice. :) - -Steve Lieb styopa@iname.com steve@necadon.com http://surf.to/styopa *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 14:02:52 PST From: "Roland Volz" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ogres On Tue, 09 Feb 1999, Simon Hibbs says: >I rule that Ogres can eat other food, but eating beef and pork to an >Ogre is like a human trying to live off only maize. You can eat it, >but after a while it gets very samey and unsatisfying. [snippage] >An Ogre who doesn't dine on human flesh has to make Fatigue rolls >every day, or lose permanent fatigue levels untill they feast on man >meat (I use an RQ4 fatigue system variant). I like this, although I would combine this with the mythic theme and have the ogre lose STR. I have an ogre PC in my game, but so far he's managed to avoid the worst effects of not having sentient flesh - his strength has been magically enhanced and maintained by an item he earned. Now, when he takes it off, he may find a few things have changed... >Ogres gain their strength mythicaly by eating their foes and thus >partaking of their supernatural vitality, so I think they should have >to keep doing so to maintain it. This makes ogres interesting potential members of the Cannibal Cult. I wonder if they gain additional advantages on becoming a member. Or perhaps, the Cannibal Cult is the *original* cult for the human tribe that sided with Cacodaemon. I'm going to have to sit down with my PC and do a little myth-storming to see what we come up with as far as MGF. I have a question for the list. The ogre in my group has decided that he doesn't want to be connected to chaos anymore. He joined Humakt to sever his tie with his family, and now he wants to Heroquest to remove the taint. He heard about the Cleansed One subcult, and wants to repeat the journey. Anybody have any ideas on what I might want to include in this? I've already decided on the Baths of Nelat, but I could use additional ideas, and sources on the myth if available. I'm also open to other ideas on a good Heroquest. Roland ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:26:27 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs > Assuming the character is not known to be an Ogre to the rest of the > party, that argument's largely illusory. While the other PCs don't know, > you effectively have no disadvantages whatsoever. If they do find out > they will either turn against you, or accept you (in which case it's no > disadvantage whatsoever). I disagree. If the party knows you're an Ogre, and they accept you, they have to help you evade the Storm Bulls and other chaos hunting types, which are not at all uncommon. This _multiplies_ the disadvantage, because now the entire party must help evade and/or hide you from the chaos haters. If the party turns against you, well, the disadvantages there are obvious. > Lets list the disadvantages an ogre has : > > 1. Sharp teeth (file them flat, no problemo). > 2. detects as chaotic to Storm Bullies. (If they roll their Sense Chaos > successfully, and you can always claim there's another chaotic creature > nearby, again no problemo to anyone with an ounce of nouse). This is much more difficult than you make it seem. I know, I've been in that situation more than once. The fact that you, as an Ogre, must either talk your way out of a situation like the above, or fight your way out, is clearly a disadvantage compared to those characters that do not have to do so. > 3. Likes eating people. > > Disadvantage three is the only one which really makes the grade IMHO, > and even then it's hardly insurmountable. I mean really, what is the > point of an ogre that doesn't eat people? It's like playing an anorexic > troll, or a claustrophobic dwarf. What's the point of playing a sorcerer that can wear armor, or a fighter that can cast spells? RQ3 is meant to be a diverse game, not one that pigeon-holes characters into particular classes (or in this case, racial steroetypes). I don't see why that can't apply to role playing individuals as individuals, rather than cut from cookie molds. I'm not sure how all of this applies to Glorantha, however. There may well be published guidelines for playing Ogre characters in Glorantha that support your views. RQ3 does _not_ equal Glorantha, however. At least not the AH Deluxe edition I have and play. Just a thought. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:40:23 +1000 From: Robert McArthur Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs Simon Hibbs wrote: > Rich Allen : > > .......As far as I can see in the creature book, the > thing that > >balances the ogres greater strength is the fact that they are chaos > >creatures, and are thus hunted by anyone opposed to chaos. Their need > to > >remain "hidden" as a race more than makes up for an extra die or two > when > >rolling up their strength. > > Assuming the character is not known to be an Ogre to the rest of the > party, that argument's largely illusory. While the other PCs don't know, > you effectively have no disadvantages whatsoever. If they do find out > they will either turn against you, or accept you (in which case it's no > disadvantage whatsoever). > > Lets list the disadvantages an ogre has : > > 1. Sharp teeth (file them flat, no problemo). > 2. detects as chaotic to Storm Bullies. (If they roll their Sense Chaos > successfully, and you can always claim there's another chaotic creature > nearby, again no problemo to anyone with an ounce of nouse). BIG disadvantage: doubled strength. You think this has only good effects, but remember it's not invisible! The character (unless they have a chaos feature to stop this) is going to have *HUGE* muscles etc. They are going to have these muscles without any visible means of keeping them - ie. they don't do strength training like any "normal" person. Any person in Glorantha who knows about ogres, and most would what with the fun myths about eating people that can be told to children!, any person is going to start asking some pretty interesting questions! I remember a published character who, IIRC, had STR 21 through training. They a) had to keep training it; and b) had to keep explaining why they weren't an ogre! So IMG anyone with STR >= 20, or who has far more muscles than their frame would 'normally' support, is suspect and has to prove themselves, at least at some time. Remember that ogres must be seen IMHO in Glorantha as one of the most insidious forms of chaos (as Zero in Nochet supports) since they could be anyone - that person you're talking to now! *Many* more people would be suspect than are real ogres. > Disadvantage three is the only one which really makes the grade IMHO, > and even then it's hardly insurmountable. I mean really, what is the > point of an ogre that doesn't eat people? It's like playing an anorexic > troll, or a claustrophobic dwarf. > 3. Likes eating people. NOOOOO. *not* _likes_ eating people. *MUST* eat people. Human's don't *like* to breath - they must. It's part of them, their nature, their humanity. Ogres are *not* humans that are chaotic, they are a separate species that happens to look a lot like humans. IMG ogres that don't role play properly start having things happen: in the middle of the party or a street they lose control and, effectively, go berserk and try and eat someone. Now, even then their nature is to kill quickly and eat when they're hidden so the PC may get away with it once or even twice. But they don't last long! An accomodating party, should they be able to sleep with someone on watch who is quite able to eat them whole, soon finds that they *must* provide fresh human flesh - that isn't their own - quite often! THIS is a disadvantage! ... > >Given that almost no Ogre *wants* to do the quest (unless they're are > >illuminated or in some way enlightened away from chaos!) > > I'm assuming a non-caccodemon worshiping Ogre. A caccodemon cultist > clearly wouldn't want to become human, but if an Ogres does want that, > then their demonic vitality has to go too. The quest is Humakit in > origin and severs the quester's links to caccodemon and ogreishness in > general. IMG, and I believe in Glorantha, that *all* ogres come from Cacodaemon. A non-Cacodaemon worshipping ogre would be like a plant that spurns Aldrya. There may be ogres that worship Cacodaemon secondary to another chaotic deity, but they all come back to big daddy eventually. And we all know that it is much easier to become and stay chaotic from being non- chaotic, than going the other way and being cleansed. [There's a published quest somewhere which shows Cacodaemon creating the ogres as a different species] IMG, a quest such as you have outlined would be slightly less common than that practiced by broos who desperately want to become priest(esses) of Chalana Arroy. Virtually none. The only ogre a humakti will allow is a dead one. In any form. I think this is a humakti plot to get ogres to come to them and ask to be cleansed. ANYONE who comes to Humakt and asks to be cleansed is not going to, shall we say, exist for long. Choose another deity who has used death + life, DON'T, IMHO, choose Humakt! Phew! Robert *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1999 21:00:40 -0800 From: thomas merring Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Western Islands Bob Stancliff wrote: > > > Ah. As it happens, i was thinking Vikings. The Ygg Islands looked > > like a nice place to plop them down, especially with the convenient coast > > > near at hand to raid or trade. > > Tom Merring > > That's exactly what Greg had in mind for the Ygg Islands. They are the > Wolf Pirates, Vikings in disguise, who were taken over by Harrak the > Berserk between 1615 and 1620. Harrak increased the range of their forays > all the way to the Mirrorsea Bay, sets up a base camp in the left arm > islands, and eventually leads several ships around the Homeward Ocean. > Bob Stancliff > I actually invested a little effort and read some stuff about Harrak and the Ygg Islands in my Gernetela box. Looks promising. who knows where ambitious young Vikings might wish to fare. Also, I think that none of the SCAdians in the group I game with are familiar with Glorantha. Tom Merring *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:50:58 -0000 From: "Mark Buckley" Subject: [RQ-RULES] foul mating practices Philip Hibbs & Ashley Munday: >Sandy only really understands *how* things work in Glorantha >Greg only really understands *why* things work the way they do in Glorantha >Maybe we ought to arrange for them to mate and cultivate the offspring? Yes, but you might get something that understands neither! Or both (Why am I thinking of Nysalor/Gbaji here?) mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:26:04 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs >RQ3 is meant to be a diverse game, not one that >pigeon-holes characters into particular classes (or >in this case, racial steroetypes). I disagree. The character class thing, sure, that's one of the great strengths of RQ. However, trolls is trolls, and dwarfs is dwarfs. Humans in most game settings have a peculier advantage of being flexible and adaptable, non humans are traditionally much less so, they are bound by some kind of mythical precedent, runic link, or a god's say-so. Playing an empathic troll, a civilised aldryami, or a claustrophobic dwarf is ridiculous. Not impossible, but ridiculous - and I therefore ridicule anyone that plays one. The suspicion is very strong that the player is just after the good stats. It also reminds me too much of Star Trek, where every series has a non-human struggling with their humanity, and nowadays, trying to become more human. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:28:29 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs >The character (unless they have a chaos feature to >stop this) is going to have *HUGE* muscles etc. No, not IMO. If this were true, ogres would be easy to spot. They ain't, they look just like me and you, but with sharp teeth. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:52:58 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs Dom Twist : >>Lets list the disadvantages an ogre has : ........ >Imagine a particularly powerfull Storm Bull. Imagine he's a persistant >character. The role playing of his increasing suspisions and player attempts >to put them off would be excellent RPGing. Well, the current game is beign run in Karse, which is a seaport trading city not known for it's large population of Storm Bullies. In order to use this option you need a good reason why the Ogre in question would stick around lots of Storm Bulls. The party are Lunars anyway, so they're not particularly keen on hanging around Stormbulls generaly. Also as a GM I already have a campaign outline and series of plot threads to explore. I realy don't want to have to spend a lot of game session time playing out encounters and situations that are only relevent to one player. For me, the hunger for human flesh is an ideal disadvantage. It's a fairly chaotic kind of advantage, is mythicaly appropriate and it's a disadvantage the player can't get rid of. No matter where she goes, no matter what her company or how understanding they are, she still needs to get a supply a fresh human meat. >Still I would nae let a player run a ogre IMG (at least not yet). Wel,, there's no way I'd agree to a character like this in a regular Orlanthi/lightbringer oriented game, but for a Lunar game it opens up all sorts of moral and religious questions, should her Ogreishness become known. I think it's going to be interesting, it's already shaping up that way. Simon *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #31 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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