From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #32 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, February 11 1999 Volume 02 : Number 032 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire RE: [RQ-RULES] foul mating practices [RQ-RULES] Son of Gygax has been spawned.... RE: [RQ-RULES] Son of Gygax has been spawned.... RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs [RQ-RULES] Oops... Re: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire Re: [RQ-RULES] Son of Gygax has been spawned.... Re: [RQ-RULES] Son of Gygax has been spawned.... RE: [RQ-RULES] Son of Gygax has been spawned.... Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ogres Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ogres RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:45:42 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire Bob Stancliff : > No, you assume instantaneous effects when you say that the CON will >already be reduced by the time that the Venom has it's effect. You are >assigning sequence to the effects of a MultiSpell, which I consider to be a >violation of the intent and spirit. All this talk about acting against the initial conditions of the target is of your own invention, so I'm afraid saying that the target's CON is reduced after the venom effect takes place is also assigning a sequence. As for intent and spirit of the rules, just look at the description of the Multispell skill. It allows the sorcerer to combine the effects of several spells into one spell. The key phrase for me is that the spells are combined - they are not separate. Thus I feel that if the effects of the spells are complimentary, the spirit and intent of the rules seems to be that they should reinforce each other. Interestingly, the rules designer seems to agree as to what his intent was, and what the spirit of his own rules are. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 12:55:41 -0000 From: Ashley Munday Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] foul mating practices Greg is obviously on the light side because he believes in a pure Glorantha while Sandy is of the dark side because he still dirties his hands with rules. "Feel the power of the Dark Side of the Farce..." Ash -----Original Message----- From: Mark Buckley [mailto:mab@ssdnt01.bnsc.rl.ac.uk] Sent: 11 February 1999 08:51 To: runequest-rules@MPGN.COM Subject: [RQ-RULES] foul mating practices Philip Hibbs & Ashley Munday: >Sandy only really understands *how* things work in Glorantha >Greg only really understands *why* things work the way they do in Glorantha >Maybe we ought to arrange for them to mate and cultivate the offspring? Yes, but you might get something that understands neither! Or both (Why am I thinking of Nysalor/Gbaji here?) mark *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:24:35 -0000 From: Ashley Munday Subject: [RQ-RULES] Son of Gygax has been spawned.... Forget the idea that Sandy and Greg should breed together. Young Phil revealed himself earlier by saying: "However, trolls is trolls, and dwarfs is dwarfs. Humans in most game settings have a peculiar advantage of being flexible and adaptable" Reminds me of the good old days. I'll have to dig out my AD&D "Racial Superiority Manual." Ash *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:51:48 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Son of Gygax has been spawned.... Ash: >I'll have to dig out my AD&D "Racial Superiority Manual." What is the dominant rce on Glorantha? Name one fantasy setting that contains humans and mortal non-humans where the humans are not the dominant race. (I am prepared to accept that there might be some, but there are not very many). Anyway, this started out as a discussion on diversity, not superiority, that's the point I wanted to make. Non-humans *are* inherently stereotypical. They get (generally) better stats, but they have different (usually more restricted) psychological parameters than humans. At least, they appear to be more restricted, but maybe we're just not capable of understanding the complexities that exist within non-human psychologies, we just see their limitiations in comparison to us (Trolls aren't solipsistic, Aldryami are bound to the forest vibe, dwarves are cogs in a machine, hobbits are fat and jolly, etc.). It's like people feeling sorry for a race that doesn't have sexual intercourse. It simply doesn't matter to them, they get their kicks some other way, that we probably can't understand. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:04:03 +0000 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs Rich Allen : >RQ3 is meant to be a diverse game, not one that >pigeon-holes characters into particular classes (or >in this case, racial steroetypes). Stereotypes are one thing, but inherent natural differences from humans are another. The key here is diversity. Broo, aldryami, mostali and uz all have different instincts, emotional responses and biological needs to humans. These differences affect their behaviour, culture and religious practices and these are explored in a consistent and imaginative way in the game. I don't see why Ogres should be any different. They are not human and have different bioloy. Robert McArthur : >You think this has only good effects, but remember it's not invisible! >The character (unless they have a chaos feature to stop this) is going >to have *HUGE* muscles etc. I'm not entirely convinced of this. I don't think Ogreas are realy all that common, but strength enhancing spells, potions and training are likely to be much more common. I also don't think that Ogre musculature is necesserily obvious. It's certainly a debatable point. >.. Ogres are *not* humans that are chaotic, they are a separate >species that happens to look a lot like humans. ..... > ......An accomodating party, should they be >able to sleep with someone on watch who is quite able to eat them whole, >soon finds that they *must* provide fresh human flesh - that isn't their >own - quite often! THIS is a disadvantage! Absolutely. I don't want playing an Ogre to be impossibly difficult, but it certainly shouldn't be a cakewalk either, regardless of whether there happen to be any storm bull cultists around at any given time. They're an additional occasional mennace, on top of the usual problems of ogrehood. >The only ogre a humakti will allow is a dead one. In any form. I think this is a >humakti plot to get ogres to come to them and ask to be cleansed. Well, there are chaotic Humakti too, so I'm sure there is enough of a grey area. The Yanafal Tarnils cult wouldn't necesserily have anything against 'tame' ogres, and they may have similar heroquests available. Danfive Xaron may have a quest of redemption through suffering that might also do the trick. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:11:21 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs On the subject of ogres, they make great vampires. The doubled strength can be quite marvelous, especially if they can pinch a Strength of Basmol spell. I ran the Melisande's Hand scenario, and replaced the bad guy with a basmoli ogre. Ouch... Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:21:24 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Oops... I appologise for the blatant misuse of the word 'solipsistic', it's not what I had in mind at all. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:16:17 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] The Grimoire > All this talk about acting against the initial conditions of the target > is of your own invention, so I'm afraid saying that the target's CON is > reduced after the venom effect takes place is also assigning a sequence. Stop rewriting my words... the spells strike at the same time because MultiSpell combined them into a single casting... they have to be simultaneous. Neither spell has any advantage from the other, because neither has acted yet. The individual spells are combined into a single casting, but the effects are not stirred together to blend them. That is a modification of MultiSpell and that is your business, not the wording of the rules. A lot of referees would let you use this trick simply because it looks good, not necessarily because they agreed with you. This all came down from an attempt to justify an interesting power game advantage by casting a single spell instead of two. You could make a deal with your familiar to cast the spells with a one SR delay and both of you could get a POW check. You could write a new Art that casts several spells like a MultiSpell, but releases them in sequence like a machine gun. The MP savings is usually worth the risks, especially if you are using Hold to keep the Uber Atk Spell until you need it. Enough of the argument, I will drop the subject and you can say whatever. I consider that the reality makes the subject moot, because by the time you manipulate enough Reduce to have a significant effect on the hit points per location, the Venom will be as large as most people would cast normally. The time might be better spent casting two or three Venoms at the same intensity. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:12:50 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Son of Gygax has been spawned.... Ashley Munday wrote: > > Reminds me of the good old days. I'll have to dig out my AD&D "Racial > Superiority Manual." Hehe. Did I mention that I'm running the Greyhawk list now, too? :) - -- talmeta@bellatlantic.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 10:24:39 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Son of Gygax has been spawned.... > What is the dominant race on Glorantha? Name one fantasy setting that > contains humans and mortal non-humans where the humans are not the dominant > race. (I am prepared to accept that there might be some, but there are not > very many). Pretty common is SciFi... if you insist on 'true' fantasy, then it is tough to answer... maybe Tekumel, I don't know it well enough. Many fantasy worlds admit that humans are late arrivers, but that their breeding rate has already given them superior numbers. Most authors intentionally pick a period where the elder races are fading into the mist and magic is dying. Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:32:39 -0000 From: Ashley Munday Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Son of Gygax has been spawned.... Tal Said: "Hehe. Did I mention that I'm running the Greyhawk list now, too? :)" Agh! No! Words of my heresy will get back to the creator... One set of rules to bring them all, And at the cash register bind them Ash *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:21:47 GMT From: "N.J. EFFINGHAM" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ogres > I have a question for the list. The ogre in my group has decided that > he doesn't want to be connected to chaos anymore. He joined Humakt to > sever his tie with his family, and now he wants to Heroquest to remove > the taint. Okay, first of all I'm one of these people that believes that removing chaos taint is nigh impossible, and any cult on Glorantha that claims to do it is lying. Probably. But forgiving that point (I understand that many people may legitimately play in a chaos cleansing Glorantha) here's my two clacks: > He heard about the Cleansed One subcult, and wants to repeat > the journey. Anybody have any ideas on what I might want to include in > this? Okay, the Cleansed One subcult is DEFINITELY dodgy. Firstly, it is Zola Fel not Humakt, secondly Greg has specifically stated that it is not 100% certain (hell, not even close) that this cult actually cleanses you of chaos taint. Perhaps it just conceals it. >I've already decided on the Baths of Nelat, but I could use > additional ideas, and sources on the myth if available. I'm also open > to other ideas on a good Heroquest. The Baths of Nealt cannot be survived. Even Harmast Barefoot cannot survive them and used another HeroQuest instead. Sandy Petersen described it as being the fact that every sin you committed is inflicted upon you in searing, agonising pain i.e. loss of hit points, where things like insulting a friend when you were younger is worth 1 hit point, murder 50 hit points of damage, and all sorts until by the end your character has suffered hundreds of thousands of points of damage for EVERY sin that has been committed. As for an ogre, I daren't think about what would happen to him.... Perhaps a Cleansed Boristi could survive, but why they'd have access to the HeroQuest I don't know. Personally, i think Simon's Humakti Quest is the best, I'd even rule that when you split into two halves, ONLY the ogre half is chaos tainted, allowing you to carry on a normal, chaos free life. All IMHO, Nikk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 15:33:42 EST From: IssariesGT@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Ogres In a message dated 2/11/99 2:39:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, eng7nje@ARTS-01.NOVELL.LEEDS.AC.UK writes: << Okay, first of all I'm one of these people that believes that removing chaos taint is nigh impossible, and any cult on Glorantha that claims to do it is lying. Probably. But forgiving that point (I understand that many people may legitimately play in a chaos cleansing Glorantha) here's my two clacks: >> I agree with this. although I would add that any such heroquest would probably just "mask" the taint as with illumination. maybe these heroquests are limited forms of illumination? kes *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 19:44:44 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs > I disagree. The character class thing, sure, that's one of the great > strengths of RQ. However, trolls is trolls, and dwarfs is dwarfs. To each his own. Personally, I think that if a human character can have such a diverse range of personality options, so can any other race. Non-human races DO have game mechanic differences, restrictions or advantages, in RQ3. I don't think a dwarf with loving ties to the elves should be allowed regularly, but it certainly is not an impossibility. Of course, Mostal would have nothing to do with such a dwarf, which is where the game mechanics come in. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:05:36 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Ogres as PCs > Stereotypes are one thing, but inherent natural differences from humans > are another. The key here is diversity. Broo, aldryami, mostali and uz > all have different instincts, emotional responses and biological needs > to humans. These differences affect their behaviour, culture and > religious practices and these are explored in a consistent and > imaginative way in the game. I don't see why Ogres should be any > different. They are not human and have different bioloy. Aside from the fact that you're once again pushing Glorantha as the baseline for RQ3, I agree with you here. But where is it said that a race with different (or even completely alien) instincts, etc., cannot be just as diverse as humans are _within_ those different instincts and emotions? Where does it say that those differences are so far apart that the diversity doesn't cross-over, sharing characteristics with human instincts? Gaming tradition has been mentioned as proof that non-human races are rigid in their style of play, but my library of RPGs doesn't support that. My even larger library of fantasy and Sci-Fi books also give non-human races huge variations within the archetypes. I just don't see it. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #32 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.