From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #50 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Monday, March 15 1999 Volume 02 : Number 050 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] mysticism, suffering and trolls [RQ-RULES] Familiars [RQ-RULES] Mysticism Re: [RQ-RULES] mysticism, suffering and trolls Re: [RQ-RULES] Familiars [RQ-RULES] Rich Allen's Combat Re: [RQ-RULES] Rich Allen's Combat Re: [RQ-RULES] Familiars Re: [RQ-RULES] Familiars RE: [RQ-RULES] Rich Allen's Combat RE: [RQ-RULES] Familiars [RQ-RULES] Re: Mysticism RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:00:00 GMT From: simonh@msi-uk.com (Simon Hibbs) Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] mysticism, suffering and trolls Bob Stancliff : > Kyger Litor, Korasting, Kaarg and Zong are not trolls? > Kyger Litor is depicted as a troll... by trolls. There is >a group of humans that worship her near the Shadow Plateau >that depict her as a black human. She is the mother of all trolls, their direct ancestor. The trolls certainly consider her to be a troll, and I personaly wouldn't argue with them. > ..Worship seems to define the shape of the deity in Glorantha. It may seems so to some, but as a point of fact it doesn't (cf. transcripts of convention Q&A sessions passim). Some wroshipers depict their god in ways appropriate and meaningfull to them. That does not mean that the god is defined in that way. Just because some humans make black humanlike statues of kyger litor does not even mean that they think of her as human, let alone that she is human. > Kyger Litor mated with the Man Rune (grandfather mortal) >to form the Mistress race, the first Trolls. She and her >siblings, like Xiola Umbar, (and Korasting?), were Darkness >beings without true human form. I don't believe Xiola Umbar is directly related to Kyger Litor in that way. I don't think their relationship is as close as, say, Storm Bull and Orlanth. More like Chalana Arroy and Orlanth. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 18:10:46 GMT From: simonh@msi-uk.com (Simon Hibbs) Subject: [RQ-RULES] Familiars Tal Meta : >One thing I allowed in the past that (that I won't be allowing again) is >the sorcerer being able to see through the familiar's eyes. One of my >story arcs in my last campaign revolved around the sorcerer's familiar >getting kidnapped, and I needed the player's cooperation to NOT just use >the familiar's eyes as a teleport sighting aid to rescue him. I believe sorcerers are fully capable of seeing through their familiar's eyes so long as it's within a certain distance. I'm putrely going by memory on that. I haven't played a sorcerer for a long time. You could Keep the familiar befuddled, or unconcious, or stupefied, or possessed, or in a slave collar, or in a temple (not sure about the last one, but it would probably work). That should do the trick. Firing such spells at the familiar also has the advantage that they get a chance to affect the sorcerer. Loren Miller : >I think it's likely that somewhere there exists a variant of the Apprentice Bonding >ritual that lets the Adept Sorceror sacrifice the POW instead of the Apprentice-to- >be, or that some art exists that generally lets the Sorceror sacrifice POW in place >of someone else. I think the apprentice bonding ritual is a case of the apprentice opening herself to the otherworld through the POW sacrifice. I don't think anyone else could do that by proxy. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 19:08:23 GMT From: "Nikk Effingham" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Mysticism Thanks for the input Nils!!! Having attended the Convulsion last year I had already assumed that Sandy's Mysticism rules (and your own of course!) reflected the mystic who was considered to have fallen from the path by other mystics. Returning to my original questions, does anybody have other mystical paths? What I mean is, we know that a Gerran gains transcendence through body mutilation and rituals - great. Do they gain anything on the way there? Its all very nice being told that you are now "transcendent" but this doesn't actually MEAN anything. A player wouldn't even know how to roleplay the character differently from when they weren't transcendent. I'm NOT looking for a reproduction of Sandy's rules, far from it, I'm not looking for Mystical path descriptions that turn you into a character from the Street Fighter computer game. I'll post my own description of Dayzatar to give an example - it has no interest for any player (I'd hope) in the terms that the benfits gained are totally and utterly useless in game time. However, the benefits are clearly stated (a perfect afterlife) and then simply represented in the rules (the more ascetic you are the better chance you have of getting into the perfect afterlife, represented on 1d100) and once you die there are a few mundane benefits (can't be brought back, you;re with Dayzatar after all). It also includes the idea that you gain access to Magic (spells such as Destroy Clouds, taken from Sandy Petersen's Dayzatar write up) but using them reduces your mystical purity - so to speak. Lastly, does anyone believe that Illumination would better be represented in rules terms if we used the same system as Sandy did for aquiring Mysticism (in this case Illumination skill) and then spending it on powers (in this case a list of powers akin to those in D:LoD but expanded further). I think this would be quite slick. Frex, you increase Illumination skill by Illuminated Teachings (available from your nearest friendly Arkati cult or Lunar Temple) and Riddles (among other ways) and then expend them on gaining the powers (immunity to spirits of reprisal etc...), obviously the GM would have final say on whether you get the power or not. It would allow us to create degrees of Illumination. Throughout all of the Convention Transcripts I've read there has been a wide variety of "takes" on Illumination, and I came to believe that some Illuminates were more Illuminated than another. I think this would be a better rules engine to simulate this. And, yes, I am a firm believer that even Mysticism can be given some kind of rules guidelines for game use. All IMO, Nikk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:03:16 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] mysticism, suffering and trolls > > Kyger Litor mated with the Man Rune (grandfather mortal) > >to form the Mistress race, the first Trolls. She and her > >siblings, like Xiola Umbar, (and Korasting?), were Darkness > >beings without true human form. > > I don't believe Xiola Umbar is directly related to Kyger Litor I would have to check Wyrm's Footprints to get the lineage. The point was that the Man Rune gave Trolls their form. While Kyger Litor may have given them their spirits, she did not have their form. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1999 15:11:52 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Familiars > I believe sorcerers are fully capable of seeing through their familiar's > eyes so long as it's within a certain distance. I'm putrely going by > memory on that. I haven't played a sorcerer for a long time. > > You could Keep the familiar befuddled, or unconcious, or stupefied, or > possessed, or in a slave collar, or in a temple (not sure about the last > one, but it would probably work). That should do the trick. Firing such > spells at the familiar also has the advantage that they get a chance to > affect the sorcerer. There is a lot of confusion here with Allied Spirits vs Familiars... this needs to be looked up. > >I think it's likely that somewhere there exists a variant of the Apprentice Bonding > >ritual that lets the Adept Sorceror sacrifice the POW instead of the Apprentice-to- > >be, or that some art exists that generally lets the Sorceror sacrifice POW in place > >of someone else. > I think the apprentice bonding ritual is a case of the apprentice opening > herself to the otherworld through the POW sacrifice. I don't think anyone else > could do that by proxy. I think that the sacrifice forms a Soul Bond between the two, but most sorcerers would never consider making the sacrifice for the apprentice. It is also possible that the direction of the sacrifice affects the way in which it works... notice that it doesn't say that apprentices can tell where the sorcerer is. Also notice how similar this is to joining a cult and getting a link to the god. I think that this is intentional, and that the links are meant to be similar. Few links are stronger besides that of a shaman and fetch. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 11:47:16 -0500 (EST) From: Al Harrison Subject: [RQ-RULES] Rich Allen's Combat As far as Fatigue rules go, here's a shot: Fatigue - ------- All characters have a pool of Fatigue Points (FPs) initially equal to the sum of their STR and CON. Physical action drains the pool of points: Action FP Cost / SR combat 1 FP running 1 FP well, let's just say everything costs 1 FP for now When a character's FPs fall to zero, the character must roll a CON x 4 check or else cease all activity more strenuous than walking / eating / conversing. Additionally, a character at zero FP's suffers -10% to all skills. If the character succeeds at the CON x 4 check they may continue exerting themselves at the penalized skill level; however, they will begin to incur a "debt" of FPs. When the accumulated "debt" is equal to the original pool, the character must roll a CON x 4 check at the -10% penalty or fall down. An additional -10% (for total -20%) is applied to all the character's skills. The accumulated debt of FPs is then zeroed-out and begins to pile up again, and the process is repeated until death by exhaustion (CON x 4 - so much it cannot be passed). Comments? Al Harrison www.coe.neu.edu/~aharriso/ aharriso@coe.neu.edu *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:53:26 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Rich Allen's Combat > When a character's FPs fall to zero, the character must roll a CON x 4 > all the character's skills. The accumulated debt of FPs is then zeroed-out > and begins to pile up again, and the process is repeated until death by > exhaustion (CON x 4 - so much it cannot be passed). > Comments? > Al Harrison This system seems harder to apply than the official rules. Both have bookkeeping per round with increasing penalties, but you have added CON rolls to randomize the process. There is only two ways to address fatigue; gradual tiring and the bookkeeping that goes with it, or determine fatigue at the start of a fight and ignore it as not having an affect during the period of the fight. Reassess before the next fight. Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:05:11 +1000 From: Robert McArthur Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Familiars Simon Hibbs wrote: ... > You could Keep the familiar befuddled, or unconcious, or stupefied, or > possessed, or in a slave collar, or in a temple (not sure about the last > one, but it would probably work). That should do the trick. Firing such > spells at the familiar also has the advantage that they get a chance to > affect the sorcerer. Ooo, nasty way to keep p*ssing off the sorcerer - keep the familiar tied and blindfolded, and every hour come in and give it a couple of befuddles - after a short time you are going to have one ANGRY sorcerer. Especially since it's likely that, if you did this every hour or even 3 hours, you'd upset the sorcerer doing a ritual + ceremony. Imagine if it happened in the middle of the meeting with some important official or in negotiations - a demoralise or befuddle! Hmmm, I smell a scenario here... Robert *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:59:41 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Familiars > tied and blindfolded, and every hour come in and give it a couple of > befuddles - after a short time you are going to have one ANGRY > sorcerer. Especially since it's likely that, if you did this every > hour or even 3 hours, you'd upset the sorcerer doing a ritual + This should work with a priest's allied spirit, but I don't think it will work with a familiar. Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:12:51 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Rich Allen's Combat > There is only two ways to address fatigue; gradual tiring > and the bookkeeping that goes with it, or determine fatigue > at the start of a fight and ignore it as not having an > affect during the period of the fight. Reassess before the > next fight. I like the second option, myself. But how would you work a situation where a character is in a battle, fights hand-to-hand for several actions, defeats his foe, then finds the rest of the battle has shifted some meters away. If he re-engages after a brief rest and some movement, is this considered a new battle, so he then must first re-figure his fatigue? I'm all for dropping the fatigue rules, as written, anyway. A character is encumbered by armor by exactly the same amount the first time he wears it as he is after wearing the armor for two years through numerous battles. This doesn't cover the reality of encumberance, in my experience. For my roundless combat, how about something like this. Each non-delay action is tallied throughout the battle. When the character stops fighting for a period of time, he compares the "action total" to his fatigue from before the combat started and subtracts a number of fatigue points based on some formula, with greater penalties coming if he exceeds his fatigue total. This does not penalize anyone for fighting had-to-hand for hours at a time, but it saves having to do any kind of fatigue computations during combat. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1999 19:16:46 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Familiars > This should work with a priest's allied spirit, but I > don't think it will work with a familiar. Actually, the Magic Book says "Emotion-affecting spells such as Befuddle or Demoralize may affect the sorcerer if the familiar is affected by it. Use the same die roll that indicated that the familiar was overcome, and compare it to the sorcerer's magic points to determine if the sorcerer was also overcome." I don't know how Sandy's rules treat this, though. Cool! That's a very nasty scenario in the making! Too bad my players are afraid to play full-blown sorcerers, now that we know how they're supposed to be played. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 10:36:48 -0500 From: "Weihe, David" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Mysticism > From: Nils Weinander > So, these rules are no longer valid for orthodox Gloranthan > mysticism, as practiced by the eastern meditators for example. They do > apply to martial artists as noted below, and other expressions of "active > mysticism", but orthodox Gloranthan mystics reject the world and all forms > of magic. As you progress mystically you accumulate magic power, but if > you _use_ it you fail as a mystic. So? Don't most people fail as mystics, at fairly low levels? That is why it is considered such a hard way. Maybe there should be some way to penalize future attempts to build up mystical power, say making it go to melting a block placed where the most recent failure (ie, use of mysticism points) occurred (something like latent heat, in physics). E.g., if Sugata uses all his mysticism after he builds up 90 points, then the next time has builds up mysticism points to 91 -180 points, these points are wasted (in a game sense, at least) by all being used to allow him to increase his pool of Mysticism above his blockage. If he uses any points before the block is melted then they just add to its thickness. Eventually, most people can build up and use only small amounts of it, due to their continual failure to swear off the world. > I think it could work. Here are some other examples of powers: > > * For each 10% skill, add 1 to defensive POW Or offensive power in spirit combat, to allow human mystics to cow dieties, as has been done in some Buddhist stories that I read (of course they might not be real stories, but something made up for the books). * For each 10% skill gain 1 point of Countermagic Or some other passive power, like healing (a common ability of the Holy in all cultures). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #50 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. 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