From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #51 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Monday, March 15 1999 Volume 02 : Number 051 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Rich Allen's Combat [RQ-RULES] Mysticism Re: [RQ-RULES] Mysticism [RQ-RULES] More on Mysticism and HeroQuesting [RQ-RULES] Re: Elic Mailing List RE: [RQ-RULES] Familiars Re: [RQ-RULES] More on Mysticism and HeroQuesting RE: [RQ-RULES] Rich Allen's Combat RE: [RQ-RULES] Familiars RE: [RQ-RULES] More on Mysticism and HeroQuesting RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 11:07:11 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Rich Allen's Combat > I like the second option, myself. But how would you work a situation where > a character is in a battle, fights hand-to-hand for several actions, defeats > his foe, then finds the rest of the battle has shifted some meters away. If > he re-engages after a brief rest and some movement, is this considered a new > battle, so he then must first re-figure his fatigue? If it is far enough away that he can take a rest, it would need to be reassessed or penalties given for being fatigued. > A character is encumbered by armor > by exactly the same amount the first time he wears it as he is after wearing > the armor for two years through numerous battles. This doesn't cover the > reality of encumberance, in my experience. It is not the encumbrance that has changed, but the wearer's STR and con stats. This changes your perception of encumbrance. > For my roundless combat, how about something like this. Each non-delay > action is tallied throughout the battle. When the character stops fighting > for a period of time, he compares the "action total" to his fatigue from > before the combat started and subtracts a number of fatigue points based on > some formula, with greater penalties coming if he exceeds his fatigue total. I like the general ideas of the old system, but want to streamline the bookkeeping for everyone. I will probably have to redefine the time and movement rules as they pertain to combat, and add some kind of counters on a graph to organize actions and SR's. Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:16:41 GMT From: simonh@msi-uk.com (Simon Hibbs) Subject: [RQ-RULES] Mysticism Nikk : >Returning to my original questions, does anybody have other mystical >paths? What I mean is, we know that a Gerran gains transcendence >through body mutilation and rituals - great. Do they gain anything on >the way there? Its all very nice being told that you are now >"transcendent" but this doesn't actually MEAN anything. Here's the rub. We're always going to have this problem. Roleplaying a mysticaly enlightened being is at least as hard as roleplaying a nonhuman. The difference in psychology from most of us is as significant. Most Gerrans probably don't get much of anything in the way of mystical powers before they die. Mysticism is the most difficult and uncertain of the magical philosophies, but the potential payoffs are huge. Experiencing an eternity of perfect bliss may not be the stuff of adventurous roleplaying, but it would certainly be nice if you can get it. >It also includes the idea that you gain access to Magic (spells such as >Destroy Clouds, taken from Sandy Petersen's Dayzatar write up) but >using them reduces your mystical purity - so to speak. This is true, but being a powerfull mystic and then choosing to use your powers doesn't leave you back at square one again. The more mysticaly powerfull you are, the lesser the costs of using your power seems to be. Sheng never 'used up' his mystical power. Can such a being could ever realisticaly spend his mysticism back down to zero again. Perhaps it works a bit like Free Will used to in the old heroquest mechanics. Once you started using it you could nolonger increase it, but you could spend it on powers. Once you spent Free Will on an ability you could never get the Free Will back, but the power is a permanent ability. How about this : You gain Mysticism as per Sandy's rules (or whatever your chosen path involves). You can spend up to one tenth of your current Mysticism skill in one go at no permanent penalty, other than simply reducing your Mysticism skill by that amount. If you ever spend more than one tenth of your mysticism in one go then you can only raise your Mysticism above that threshold level at half normal rate. If you spend more than 20% of your mysticism in one go then you can only raise your Mysticism above that threshold level at one tenth of normal rate. E.g. Ming the Mystic has a Mysticism of 120%. He decides to spend 10 points of Mysticism on an effect, reducing his Mysticism to 110%. He spent less that one tenth of his Mysticism skill, so he's ok. Some time later Ming has increased his Mysticism to 140% and chooses to spend 20 points on an ability. This is more than one tenth of his Mysticism, so his Mysticism is reduced to 120% AND any Mysticism increases above 140% are at half rate from now on. A few years later, through much dilligence Ming has increased his Mysticism to 160%. In a deperate struggle he spends 40 points of Mysticism. This is more than 20% of his mysticism, which is now reduced to 120%. From now on any increase of his Mysticism above 160% will be at one tenth of the normal rate. The numbers would have to be tweaked. I've no idea if the 10% and 20% thresholds are reasonable. > ...... Throughout all of the Convention >Transcripts I've read there has been a wide variety of "takes" on >Illumination, and I came to believe that some Illuminates were more >Illuminated than another. I think this would be a better rules engine >to simulate this. That sounds very reasonable. I think the 'moment of illumination' described in the old illumination rules was the mystical equivalent of becoming initiated for a theist. It's certainly not the be all and end all of illumination. It's just the beginning. >And, yes, I am a firm believer that even Mysticism can be given some >kind of rules guidelines for game use. Hopefully the impending new Hero Wars magic rules draft will give us some ideas we can adapt for BRP. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:34:15 GMT From: "Nikk Effingham" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Mysticism > Here's the rub. We're always going to have this problem. Roleplaying > a mysticaly enlightened being is at least as hard as roleplaying > a nonhuman. The difference in psychology from most of us is as > significant. Agreed, roleplaying a mystically transcendent being is difficult, and certainly not all dependent upon the rules. > Most Gerrans probably don't get much of anything in the way of > mystical powers before they die. Mysticism is the most difficult and > uncertain of the magical philosophies, but the potential payoffs are > huge. Experiencing an eternity of perfect bliss may not be the stuff > of adventurous roleplaying, but it would certainly be nice if you can > get it. Perhaps Gerrans are a bad example because they are a religion/mystical path that is "take take take" all the way until the top. I don't think all mystical paths are like this. The question still remains, what IS Gerran Transcendence. Is it merely eternal bliss and ascension??? > This is true, but being a powerfull mystic and then choosing to use your > powers doesn't leave you back at square one again. The more mysticaly > powerfull you are, the lesser the costs of using your power seems to be. > Sheng never 'used up' his mystical power. Can such a being > could ever realisticaly spend his mysticism back down to zero again. Agreed that using your powers doesn't take you all the way back to the start. Within about a week I'll put the draft version of Dayzatar up to show what I mean. Basically you get a simple percentile score, representing your chance of achieving the perfect afterlife. Everytime you use Rune Magic (or sacrifice for it, perhaps) you decrease this score. Everytime you vanish off to meditate, hear teachings, take bizarre taboos etc... it increases. I think it is slightly more complicated than this, but that is the basic crux of the idea. > Perhaps it works a bit like Free Will used to in the old heroquest > mechanics. Once you started using it you could nolonger increase it, > but you could spend it on powers. Once you spent Free Will on an > ability you could never get the Free Will back, but the power is a > permanent ability. How about this : This sounds good. However, I also think that Sandy's Mysticism actually reflects current thinking in Glorantha. I think of the power of "Unity" as being the Biggy, the one power that every mystic wants, to be connected to the Universal "It". Now, it takes 100 Mysticism to purchase this, not exactly the sort of thing you get out of nowhere. If you're a mystic who spends all of their Mysticism on Martial Arts and the ability to climb well, then you're never going to get the Unity power, as you'll be spending your Mysticism on other things instead. Foolish Mystic. If, one the other hand, you are an ascetic, an "orthodox mystic" who spends all of their time meditating etc... and never spends their Mysticism then you do in fact have a chance of getting the Unity power. So that Mystic will have nothing to show for all his hard work for a few decades and then will gain the Unity power and be quite content. The game effects are tertiary to the fact that you are now part of Everything and, as such, are Transcended. IMO. The downside of this, if indeed it is a downside, is that you could have a Mystic who had fallen by the wayside, accumulated loads of powers, and then decided that orthodox mysticism was the way forward, and returned to the one true path, accumulating Mysticism as much as possible. I'm not sure if this goes against what Greg thinks, but I don't see much of a problem with it. > You gain Mysticism as per Sandy's rules (or whatever your chosen > path involves). You can spend up to one tenth of your current > [snip] I like the idea, but it seems a bit complicated. I could be wrong, it may well work excellently in actual playtests. > That sounds very reasonable. I think the 'moment of illumination' > described in the old illumination rules was the mystical equivalent > of becoming initiated for a theist. It's certainly not the be all and > end all of illumination. It's just the beginning. Agreed. Has anyone got any interesting additional Illumination powers? Ones that are actually _Illumination_ powers and not just funky stuff you think a Mystic might have (I can't see Illumination giving you Martial Art powers or the ability to heal for instance). All IMO, Nikk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:39:30 GMT From: "Nikk Effingham" Subject: [RQ-RULES] More on Mysticism and HeroQuesting For those of you who weren't at the Convulsion last year, this is basically what Greg had to say about mystics and HeroQuesting. The HeroPlane is the World of Temptation for Mystics, upon the HeroPlane a Mystic wil be offered mundane, temporal, magical and personal power which will otherwise hinder their advancement along the mystical path. And the Temptation gets bigger every time. For instance, you might go on a HeroQuest and be tempted by a storm spirit who will offer you his storm powers. You turn him down. Next time Entekos (a storm god) will turn up and offer her powers instead. You turn her down. Then Orlanth turns up and offers you some of his powers, the real deal! Still, you turn him down. Later still Orlanth turns up, and offers you the chance to BECOME him! Again, you turn him down, because to accept would be to ruin your chances of increasing Mystical enlightenment. Later still ALL ther gods turn up and offer you the chance to become ALL of them. In game terms I see this as being a wide variety of heropaths taught by Mystical cults where this sort of thing goes on. At the end you gain an increase in your Mysticism score if, and only if, you don't get tempted along the way. If you do then you either (a) never increase your Mysticism score again or (b) never be able to walk that heropath again. I was just posting this as a bit of background information... Nikk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:48:39 -0500 From: Craig_Tremblay/KFS@kessler.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Elic Mailing List My mistake, that is www.onelist.com. I really should proofread my e-mail better ;-) BTW, what are, if any, good Elirc! RPG sites out there? Criag *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 13:03:24 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Rose Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Familiars I'm 99% certain that there is fairly short range limitation on the mindlink. Like 2000M?. Which makes the trick useful in combat, but somewhat less than clever for a kidnapping. Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 14:26:50 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] More on Mysticism and HeroQuesting > For instance, you might go on a HeroQuest and be tempted by a storm > spirit who will offer you his storm powers. You turn him down. Next > time Entekos (a storm god) will turn up and offer her powers instead. > You turn her down. Then Orlanth turns up and offers you some of his > powers, the real deal! Still, you turn him down. Later still Orlanth > turns up, and offers you the chance to BECOME him! Again, you turn > him down, because to accept would be to ruin your chances of > increasing Mystical enlightenment. Later still ALL ther gods turn up > and offer you the chance to become ALL of them. This seems rather childish... I expect better from Greg. It is also very hard to role-play since a player can claim that his character refuses something that a real person might never be able to turn down. Is it only Mystics who don't want to have divine powers? I would assume that a deist would actually desire these and seek them. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:06:43 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Rich Allen's Combat > It is not the encumbrance that has changed, but the > wearer's STR and con stats. This changes your perception > of encumbrance. So where are the mechanics for increasing a character's stats through the normal use of armor? I'm not sure I agree with the concept, though. On a recent backpack trip, I had a 70 pound pack. It was very heavy, and I tired out quickly during the first day of the hike. The second day, however, I did much better, as I got used to carying the load, etc. I don't believe I got stronger overnight, or more fit... I just got used to carrying the extra load, but the encumberance was less. Either way, I agree with you that figuring for fatigue loss during combat should be done away with, with some other system stepping in that calculates the before and after figures only. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 17:14:49 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Familiars > I'm 99% certain that there is fairly short range limitation on the > mindlink. Like 2000M?. Which makes the trick useful in combat, but > somewhat less than clever for a kidnapping. Maximum range for using the familiar's INT and MPs is 10 kilometers. The sorcerer can know the location of and summon the familiar from much farther away. Guess it all depends on the house rules regarding what you can and can't use of the familiar's senses. Even if you limit the range to 2 km, you still have a very good plot device if the purpose is to lure the sorcerer into a trap or other nasty situation. Once the sorcerer is within range, you pummel the familiar with the emotion spells. You could have the familiar kidnapped and held by bumbling henchmen, giving the sorcerer a false sense of easy victory, etc. Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1999 00:04:19 -0000 From: "Phil Hibbs" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] More on Mysticism and HeroQuesting >> Later still ALL the gods turn up >> and offer you the chance to become ALL of them. >This seems rather childish... I expect better from >Greg. One man's childishness is another man's transcendental path. >It is also very hard to role-play since a player >can claim that his character refuses something that a >real person might never be able to turn down. Gloranthan Mysticism isn't designed to be a balanced roleplaying mechanism. Roleplaying rules have to make an abstraction that can be kept in balance. In this instance, the roleplayer is going to have to put up with playing a crap character (no powers) for years and years of game time, while his theist, shamanic and/or sorcerous companions get to be rune-level. At the end of it, his character transcends and becomes one with the universe. Yeah. Great roleplaying game. Also, what if the choice is "Give in and have a power, and keep your friends, but to continue the transcendant path you have to foresake all your current companions"? End of game for the mystic PC, if he wants it all. Phil. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #51 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.