From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #58 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, April 1 1999 Volume 02 : Number 058 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: Re : [RQ-RULES] Hero Points [RQ-RULES] Heroquests [RQ-RULES] HeroQuest "rules" Re: [RQ-RULES] HeroQuests and huge skill levels... RE: [RQ-RULES] HeroQuest "rules" Re: [RQ-RULES] Hero Points RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 05:50:24 -0500 (EST) From: Nikk Effingham Subject: Re: Re : [RQ-RULES] Hero Points >>I'm tempted top disagree and say "HQ is a bit difficult" > >True! > >You would agree, though, that the focus of RQ on liddle details >(which is much of the game system's charm) >tends to hinder it's use as a template for epic gaming? I'd say that this is not totally the case. My characters will, on a HeroQuest, probably roll a dicde only a handful of times, unless it involves a fair amount of combat. They will rarely have more than a handful of ticks. When the character says "I clikmb that wall over there" unless it is a wall of the gods, a sheer surface only a master climber could hope to ascend, then - as this is the HeroPlane and the characters a resuppossed to be Heroic - I don't ask for a dice roll for such a simple task even though I might well ask for one on the mundane realm. Only Heroic activities require dice rolls, and this helps get rid of the little details that RQ focuses on. Or perhaps you were referring to something different? >>and here was a bog standard HeroQuester, barely noticeable, and she kicked >>arse. Fine, but this would mean the Heroes were walking around with 500% >>attack and parry, 2000%, even 3000%! OK, I was thinking about it in purely >>combat terms, but then this is where RQ breaks down. > >Yes. My own solution to this is to focus on Mass Combat. >I haven't found ludicrously high non-combat skills to be much of a problem. >Have you had any trouble with these? >(Beyond the ridicule factor, that is ...) I found it a problem when I looked at the character and went "Oh my God, this is just silly", which in itself isn't much of a problem, but when I realised my characters could, by doing a handful of /5 HeroQuests reach this level of silliness, I knew something had to be changed. >One suggestion, though: >Rather than having PC skills divided and recalculated for every HQ, >instead I multiply (or rarely, divide) _NPC_ skills for each encounter. >This rather simplifies book-keeping, keeps the players guessing, >and is more versatile than the old Chaosium system, because >it's much easier to have varying levels of difficulty during a Quest. >Also saves aspirin. Multiplying the skill of the NPC's surely offsets what you were trying to solve. I was dividing skills by five because a combat between somebody with 300% combat skills and 200% combat skills is SLLLLLOOOOOWWWWW, whereas a fight between somebody with 60% attack and somebody with 40% combat skills is far faster. And anybody in my game who can't take their skill and divide it by five shouldn't be playing (I'm not saying I don't have players like that, just that they shouldn't be there : ) >Should "Hero Points" be called, simply, Support? Hmm, I don't like that name, you don't need Support to get Hero Points. I just wanted something that didn't sound so tacky, and had more of a Gloranthan feel to it, like Rune Points, or Divine Mastery Quotient : ) >I use WILL in two ways: >During character generation PCs get Will Points which they can use to >modify the character as rolled ("My dad has a cabbage farm?!?? OK, >but my mum is in the Vinga cult!!" costs 1 WP, for example), >and they also get a WILL*1% "saving throw" against critical success >in a personality check. I should explain that when a character HQs, >the more Support he has from his Temple, the more he's inhabited >by the divine spirit of his god, the higher his cult personality traits >will be during the Quest. The WILL roll represents his humanity >(or simply, his Heroism) versus the Will of his god and of the >Initiates of the cult. Most NPCs, and ALL non-Hero types lack WILL. As I use a Champions style character generation system, I don't have problems with my characters getting backgrounds, or even characters they don't want. I don't like the idea of Free Will being represented by a single stat, a single number. In fact, I don't think it works at all. This was vaguely what Sandy did, exactly what Maurer and Marsh did, and I never found their systems to be perfect. In my opinion, personality traits/passions are the way to go. When you become more powerful, more connected to a god, you get lots of rune magic and really cool abilities, but in turn your traits change to reflect those of your god, so much so that at some point they go so high you can't help but act like your god does. Perfect, loss of free will in return for power. Just what Free Will is all about. All IMO. >Plus it makes you better at HeroQuesting. Without making you gross or >>really, really silly. I've now seen a PC go on two HeroQuests and gained >>5d6% in skills upon his return in addition to the normal HQ benefits. He is >>gross. A few more Quests and he will be very, very silly. > >So what? It's just a game!! ;-) *laughs* Yeah, but I have a nice solid campaign going and don't want to see Pcs wandering around with 300% skills just because they did a few HeroQuests. I have a feeling my players will stop playing. I know I'll stop running : ) >> Hero points (does anybody have a better name) solve this, so I see. >>Certainly it will arm me with a HeroQuest specific stat that I can "toy" >>with to allow for future changes in Greg's vision of HeroQuesting - which >>was always what I intended to do when I decided to write my own HeroQuest >>system - to fit in with what Greg thought. > >Yeah, me too; but I also want to stick with RuneQuest !! Oh, me too, that's why I've generated such rules to cover as many aspects of heroQuesting as I can. I'd be quite interested in seeing your HeroQuest rules, is there any chance of you posting them either privately or to the Digest? All the above opinions are all IMVHO, Nikk *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 13:38:03 +0100 From: Pete Nash Subject: [RQ-RULES] Heroquests Before I place my point of view, I just wanted to say how much I liked Ashley's method of being granted gifts from the god. It feels a lot better that way, and rewards those who try to be as much like their god as possible. On to Heroquests... In the long campaign I was enjoying for many years, the basic concept was that whether you were enacting a heroquest on the mundane plane or the heroplane, you still used your _normal_ skill levels. What changed though was the level of support you were willing to sacrifice if you failed. Support of a clan was the minimum needed to perform a quest, and maximum could be the support of a nation. (it was assumed that a temple was an integral part of the local clan/tribe/kingdom, and needed its permission to use the local worshippers for enacting a quest). Other factors were if the quest remained in the mundane (less risk and potential profit) or if it journeyed into the heroplane (greater risk and profit). And if the benefits of the quest would be kept by the individuals who journey on it, or given to the supporters. If a quest was held on the mundane plane then the gifts would be temporal, lasting a season or a year. Gifts won on the heroplane would be permanent. If only taken only by the participants then a super-power would be granted (e.g.: Total immunity to disease.), but if the gift was granted to the supporters then it would be diluted (e.g.: a Cure Disease rune spell, or a +10% bonus to resist disease.) The more supporters generated then bigger the power, but obviously the supporters would want the gift applied in a manner which would benefit them most. If the quest failed, then something of worth equal to the gift would be removed from the supporters and participants. The beauty of doing it this way was that you could continue to use normal RQ, and the players wouldn't feel as completely useless as they do when you start dividing skill percentages. As to what they should face whilst on the quest, that was easy. The law of equality sprang into action. A hero always faces something of equivalent power to himself on the heroplane. Big gods and super heroes ignore the quester as he is beneath them. Lesser heroes and spirits recognize the questers power and run away from him. Thus leaving beings of similar status to face each other. (it was a wonderful idea posted on the digest many years ago!) This makes every quest dangerous (imagine your best PC facing itself in combat!), but not necessarily suicidal. The one loophole is this method of heroquesting was that having a larger team of supporters didn't give the quester any benefits. This was a rule which was obviously needed. The support should make the quester more powerful so that he can succeed in bigger, tougher quests (but of course still face something of equivalent power after their bonus). What prevented lesser heroes from performing the big heroquests was the lack of faith of the supporters. If they didn't think you were up to it, then you wouldn't be going. Another small problem with this is that the GM has to make up a reasonable power for succeeding. But the system needs to be flexible for different people's style of play and different power levels. We never thought of mega skills as being a sign of power. Special powers were what counted. For example. Distract enemy with flashy weapon play. Jump atop own thrown weapon. Split self into two. etc. (listen to some of Greg's latest fiction) These are the powers which make heroes and super heroes. Not 750% broadsword skill. All in my own opinion of course. In our long, long campaign no PC ever reached over 130% in a skill. As stated other people love 1000's of percent for hero's. In my opinion it really doesn't matter. As long as what you face is matched against you, everyone should have fun. After all, no PC can reasonably expect to win a toe to toe contest with a god. They merely face an equivalent hero of that god to enact the myth. Only gods need face gods. That is the hero plane for you. Pete *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 08:40:57 -0500 (EST) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: [RQ-RULES] HeroQuest "rules" At one time I was enamored of the idea of a "super RuneQuest" approach to heroquesting, with skill divisors (requiring the Special to be a normal, a crit to be a special, a "super-crit" to be a critical) plus a "Will" stat, plus "character traits" as mechanics, yadda yadda yadda, yadda yadda yadda. Then I actually ran a heroquest and threw all that stuff out. I haven't the time to put together my HeroQuest "rules" at this sitting, but I'll hammer out what I've done some time ("In Six Months (TM)"). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 01 Apr 1999 10:47:24 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] HeroQuests and huge skill levels... Nikk Effingham wrote: > > HeroQuesting for Beginners: > > HeroQuesting is the Gloranthan activity of using magics to allow a character > to enter into a relationship with the Macrocosmic, the Otherworld, the > Godplane, call it what you will. In other words, it allows the character to And it need not be merely a Gloranthan exercise. I ran a heroquest wherein an elven priest of Corellon Larehtian had to do battle with the high priest of a monocular god who had replaced on of their eyes with a magic crystal. By reenacting Corellon's battle with Gruumsh One-Eye, the elf was able to completely defeat him, instead of getting toasted by the powers that crystal would have otherwise given his opponent. For the briefest of moments, the priest WAS Corellon, and came away from the experience suitably attired (i.e. replicas of his god's arms and armor). The important part, IMO, is the reenactment of myth by mortal characters, for material/spiritual gain. > Depending upon how you run your game, depends upon what the defintion of > "high" skill level is for RuneQuest. I wanted "high" to be a few hundred, > with the Superheros having maybe several hundred percent, but the way in > which I have been running my game, a Superhero would have literally have > accrued thousands of percent by HeroQuesting - so I decided to change my > system. It need not even be played with high skill levels. Though that seems to be a popular way to do it. - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta1 Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 17:04:54 +0100 From: Ashley Munday Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] HeroQuest "rules" Bryan said: "I haven't the time to put together my HeroQuest "rules" at this sitting, but I'll hammer out what I've done some time ("In Six Months (TM)")." Isn't six months on the Chaosium Hero Plane equal to 20 years for the rest of us? Just as an aside, has anyone ever done any "Heroquests" for other game worlds than Glorantha? I don't think that HQ is necessarily Gloranthan. Think of the Arthurian Grail Quest for example - that's an HQ without needing Glorantha. Here's another aside: The current vogue seems to be using Pendragony style rules: Has anyone any thoughts of usiong RQ rules for a Pendragony style campaign? Yet another aside: I quite like the idea of doing a Bernard Cornwell style Arthurian campaign using RQ. Anyone got any thoughts on that? (If you haven't, read "The Winter King", "The Enemy of God" and "Excalibur" by Bernard Cornwell, go and beg, borrow or buy copies this minute. They're really good - all personal interpretation and extrapolation but they taught me a thing or two and excited my imagination.) Ash - -----Original Message----- From: bjm10@cornell.edu [mailto:bjm10@cornell.edu] Sent: 01 April 1999 14:41 To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] HeroQuest "rules" At one time I was enamored of the idea of a "super RuneQuest" approach to heroquesting, with skill divisors (requiring the Special to be a normal, a crit to be a special, a "super-crit" to be a critical) plus a "Will" stat, plus "character traits" as mechanics, yadda yadda yadda, yadda yadda yadda. Then I actually ran a heroquest and threw all that stuff out. I haven't the time to put together my HeroQuest "rules" at this sitting, but I'll hammer out what I've done some time ("In Six Months (TM)"). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:09:25 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Hero Points > >The problem I had, myself, with very high skill levels > >was the special success. I wanted to incorporate > >a martial arts maneuvers/swashbuckling system, > >based on a nifty new rule for special success A very good character, even Rune Lord, has a very hard time getting skills up over 200% with spells (exception: Death Cultist with Axe Trance or Berserk), so specials are still under 40% or 50%. The game still plays well at these levels, and I consider this to be quite appropriate for Heroes... especially when you throw in the six to eight companions. You can let super-heroes and demi-gods start at 200% to 300% and they will critical or special regularly. Base a swashbuckling system on skill/2 instead of skill/5 to show that it is difficult, but not daunting. It is my personal belief that this should have a similar flavor to the Xena or Hercules TV shows. It is about the level my lead characters are at with spells up (except that they never learned acrobatics, balancing, or grappling... too bad). > I awarded her about 270% in attack, parry and aover 150% in a > variety of other skills. After all, she was supposedly an accomplished HQer > of about ten or eleven HQs. This, in itself, isn't a problem. But I believe > the RQ system to be able to define the Heroes and Superheros of the game, > and here was a bog standard HeroQuester, barely noticeable, and she kicked > arse. Fine, but this would mean the Heroes were walking around with 500% > attack and parry, 2000%, even 3000%! This is exactly the flaw in logic of giving super-experience to get super-characters, they are too absurd to allow in the normal world. If you keep playing the game the way it is written, a hero is a Rune Lord/Priest with skills in the mid-100%'s and some divine gifts, and a super-hero is a hero with skills near 200% and several divine gifts and runic ties. Both of these will have a party of follower Priests and Rune Lords to back him up, which is the greatest source of his combat power, and they can wail on most army brigades due to massive spell support of any variety. The Passion idea is interesting and limits itself nicely so that it doesn't get out of hand, but it does increase the competence of all characters from the youngest to the oldest by a varying degree. This changes the general balance of the game and makes advanced characters even tougher. The Hero point system is pretty good too, as long as you usually only give out 1 to 2 points per quest... I assure you a very few points will go a long way if the enemy isn't using points back. It gives you an advantage on that important roll (I assume that you can spend it after the roll is made) to get the crit when it has to be there. This is an experience point system, but because they are used up, they are self limiting. They will most often be used to turn specials into crits to drop the enemy faster. This speeds up combat by making it much deadlier. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #58 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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