From: owner-runequest-rules@ (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.MPGN.COM Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #65 Reply-To: runequest-rules@mpgn.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@ Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@ Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, April 8 1999 Volume 02 : Number 065 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS RE: [RQ-RULES] New Tip (??) [RQ-RULES] Re: New Tips - Cadaverous limbs [RQ-RULES] Re - HeroQuest rules Re: [RQ-RULES] New Tip (??) [RQ-RULES] Weekly DIs RE: [RQ-RULES] New Tip (??) RE: [RQ-RULES] Weekly DIs [RQ-RULES] Frequency of Divne Interventions and Allied Spirits [RQ-RULES] Re: New Tips - Cadaverous limbs Re: [RQ-RULES] Double Bonus? RE: [RQ-RULES] Double Bonus? RE: [RQ-RULES] Double Bonus? Re: [RQ-RULES] Site of Tips ? RE: [RQ-RULES] Double Bonus? RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:57:42 +0100 From: Ashley Munday Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] New Tip (??) Okay, I should have read it better before I posted it... I said: "It was a real powergamer stunt that I probably would pull anymore" when I meant wouldn't... Ooops. Ash *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:14:58 +0100 From: simonh@msi-uk.com (Simon Hibbs) Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: New Tips - Cadaverous limbs Pastorello, Michael : >I love this idea think I will implement it. One question remains for it, how >would you treat damage to this limb? >mike The same as for a skeleton - it has 1 HP per location. Of course, there are plenty of ways to offset this. For example you could wear armour. If you reinforced the bones with metal you could give it intrinsic armour points, then it would take damage the same way as weapons. Finaly you could use armouring enchantments. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 12:24:58 +0100 From: simonh@msi-uk.com (Simon Hibbs) Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re - HeroQuest rules Michael C. Morrison : > ......So, by extension, we >need a new set of requirements for an RLP to become a Hero: five more >skills at 90% (preferably ones that you can only get when you become >an RLP, in other words, that start at 0%, with the first 5% coming as >part of ordination as an RLP) and maybe some new spells that you can >only get whilst on HQ. Heroes are simple people who go on heroquests and who are recognised as such by their commpunity, or by reputation at large. It's independent of any specific skill or magical requirements. Rne Lord and Rune Priest are (at least in many religions) appointed offices with set minimum requirements, but Heroquesting is an activity, not an office. If you heroquest, then you are a heroquester. As far as Superheroes go, orriginaly these were heroquesters who have mastered the Infinity rune. Nowadays though Greg doesn't seem so keen on making the distinction between Heroes and Superheroes, they're just super powerfull heroes. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:10:56 EDT From: IssariesGT@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] New Tip (??) In a message dated 4/8/99 3:46:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk writes: << Nice try, but I think DI can only be done once per week. Maybe that was an RQ2 rule, tho. >> for initiates though. he also thought of having Allied spirit do one of the DI just in case it really zapped him, say 9 POW. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 08:15:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Peter Maranci Subject: [RQ-RULES] Weekly DIs * "Hibbs, Philip" wrote: >> IssariesGT@aol.com wrote: >> He's a Runelord of Yanafal and the Seven Mothers and is thinking of: >> 1) casting Chaos Gift >> 2) using a DI to pick the particular Chaos feature (+4d6 POW) >> 3) using another DI to make it permanent. > Nice try, but I think DI can only be done once per week. Maybe that was > an RQ2 rule, tho. The Runelord could do the whole thing at the end of the week. He'd have to precisely time it so that the first DI happened on the very last second of the week, and the second DI could be invoked one second later, which would be the first second of the new week. This incredibly lame and objectionable example of power-gaming has been brought to you by the letter "Y", as in "Y did I write this?". :-) -->Pete - ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Maranci pmaranci@tiac.net Malden, MA *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:12:57 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] New Tip (??) - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >he also thought of having Allied spirit do one of the >DI just in case it really zapped him, say 9 POW. I'm beginning to sound like the kind of nay-sayer that I usually complain about, but I don't think allied spirits can qualify as rune levels (I think it's in the Cults Book, anyone got da roolz to check?) My defense is that this is flagrant rules-abuse, whereas attaching a skeletal hand is COOL. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0.2i iQA/AwUBNwyfHF1SBDU3jy39EQIcsACgxAZ8xn2zELZX+lJX9Z/hvP+5GSQAnRqG aG+Y5hr5Mavzdpn1LjBEkuIF =UsVW - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 13:13:48 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Weekly DIs - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >The Runelord could do the whole thing at the end of the week. He'd >have to precisely time it so that the first DI happened on the very last >second of the week, and the second DI could be invoked one second >later, which would be the first second of the new week. ROTFL! Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0.2i iQA/AwUBNwyfUF1SBDU3jy39EQIeYQCgvgstJREL0xrcyqsv4Dgt1ogP4ioAn1oy 4nnVXK6T9+6KC6A+UofP5dmU =81l8 - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 14:03:37 +0100 From: Ashley Munday Subject: [RQ-RULES] Frequency of Divne Interventions and Allied Spirits I just had a gawp at the rules and as far as I can see there is no restriction as to when you can do a DI. You can keep attempting them until the referee gets fed up of you failing and shoves the dice up your bum. Allied spirits can do DI as an initiate, but can't gain reusable Rune Magic the way they used to. Ash *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 09:51:10 -0400 From: "Weihe, David" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: New Tips - Cadaverous limbs > I realise that. I sugested to the player of the character in question that > he could bind the ghost of a sorcerous sword master into his skeletal > arm and have the ghost cast the animate spell. That way he wouldn't > have to concentrate on it. However the ghost would be animating it, not the PC. The result would be something like Dr. Strangelove's arm, at best, and some really bad horror flick (where a pianist got transplanted hand from a murderer) (I think it starred Michael Caine) the name of which escapes me, at worst. > A strap-on skeletal arm with such a ghost bound into it would make a > great magic item for necromantic characters. Some insane NPC evil > sorcerers might even be prepared to lose a limb just to be able to use > it. At least it wouldn't cost an arm and a leg! Of course, since much of swordsmanship is moving properly, the ghost would be able to recommend with perfect honesty and unselfishness that you should really do the same thing to both your legs. Then, since your balance would be off, he needs the rest of you below the neck. Before long, it is his body, that you sit on like Long John Silver's parrot. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 10:07:21 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Double Bonus? > >Thus a 60% base attack with +10% Manipulation/Attack > >bonus and +30% from Bladesharp 6 counts as a 100% > >modified skill and can be split into two attacks. The 60% > >attack skill is halved and the modifiers are added to each > >half giving two 70% attacks instead of two 50% attacks. > > No way does the cat mod get doubled! There is no RQ rules context in which > the skill does not include the category modifier. Writing it down with cat > mod excluded is purely a mechanism for avoiding having to rub out all the > skills in a category if a characteristic changes. Actually, experience checks cancel out the category bonus. You basically roll over the current base skill to see if you get more experience, so that is one place. You are correct that it isn't common to do it my way, that's ok. > I don't think the bladesharp should apply to both either. If you assume that the bonus is on the weapon which is used for both attacks, then it has to be. > This is my system: > 1. Apply any multipliers to the skill > 2. Add any modifiers due to circumstances > 3. Apply any limiting factors, such as Ride skill > 4. Add any bonus or penalty due to magic > 5. If the chance is over 100, it may be split > 6. Roll it Hmmm, but #5 is a multiplier of 1/2, so you are doing multipliers at #1 and #5; how do you decide which ones occur at which point? I might want to do my Berserk x2 after the division instead of at the front If Ride skill is really a limit, then it should come after magic, so #3 and #4 should be reversed. I just suggested: 1) Apply all multipliers 2) Apply all adds (subs) 3) Apply all limits *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:12:49 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Double Bonus? - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bob: >Actually, experience checks cancel out the category bonus. >You basically roll over the current base skill to see if >you get more experience, so that is one place. You are >correct that it isn't common to do it my way, that's ok. Technically, you roll the dice, add your cat mod, and if you got over your skill, or over 100, you got the check. At low to medium skill levels, it works out the same. >I might want to do my Berserk x2 >after the division instead of at the front So a warrior with 75% attack chance can't split his attacks when berserk? I'd allow it, so the split would have to be done after, IMO. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0.2i iQA/AwUBNwy7NF1SBDU3jy39EQLgswCcCpNOhb6DxRT9ZDzFJjldeczoxwoAn2uF iqISQE4tn7O9ByBeKiZFZFSp =fc6q - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 15:27:30 +0100 From: Ashley Munday Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Double Bonus? Bob suggested an order for applying modifiers in combat... "1) Apply all multipliers 2) Apply all adds (subs) 3) Apply all limits" The group I play with tend to use all limits first, so we take the lower of riding and your weapon, then apply all the mods, multipliers first. Shame the rules never spelt this out a bit better. Oh well, 15 years too late I 'spose. Ash *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 11:33:23 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Site of Tips ? Glenn Kirkconnell wrote: >> Thus a 60% base attack with +10% Manipulation/Attack bonus >> and +30% from Bladesharp 6 counts as a 100% modified skill > >and can be split into two attacks. The 60% attack skill is > >halved and the modifiers are added to each half giving two > >70% attacks instead of two 50% attacks. > > I don't buy two parts of this. First, the Attack bonus IS part of the > "base" skill for that person. Common argument, I am getting similar from the web. This really isn't that important since the largest bonus is about 16% for Manipulation. I used to do it this way too. I counter-argue that if changing a stat changes the skill, then the base skill and the bonus are different. Saying that the bonus is added to the skill and they become the same requires that further changes in the bonus have NO change on the skill (i.e.: the skill can only be changed by experience). > The sorts of things which aren't adjusted by Fanaticism, > etc. are the Bladesharp, position/surprise modifiers, etc. So you generally agree that multipliers come before additions. > Second, I think splitting the 100% attack would be two 50% attacks, with > the pluses for SIZ of target, surprise, etc. counting twice. Now you say that there are some multipliers, some additions, then other multipliers and other additions. I suggested a simplification that works in ALL cases and can still make sense when you think about it. I get a headache trying to follow your list of what can be modified by a multiple and what can't. > I'll think more about the Bladesharp, but in the almost 20 years I've been > playing I always counted this only once per round, not once per attack. So, which attack did you apply it to? I assume you halved it? If the spell is on the weapon, then using the weapon twice should give the bonus twice, or not. Did you divide the damage bonus also? If the skill divides, the damage should also. OK, Glenn and many others say: Skill = initial + experience + bonus (like the trinity... three who are one) Apply Multiples like Fanaticism, Berserk, Arrow Trance Apply Additions like Bladesharp, stat spells, position mods Apply Divisors like Split Attacks Apply Additions for target Size, surprise mods Invoke the gods and throw the dice really high in the air Where is the Ride limit applied? If it is before the Divisor for Split Attacks, then %'s over 100% are very rare when mounted. Where does Shimmer go? Every aspect of the game has to be put into this structure somewhere, and every variant position from game to game gives different results. While these variations have worked for 20 years for most people, these are sources of a lot of confusion, and have to be taught to every new player in every game, with constant misunderstandings and errors. My variation is: Base Skill = all experience: childhood (or starting), pre-game, and in-game Apply all multipliers and divisors Apply all additions and subtracts Apply Limits like Ride This slightly reduces effects from Fanaticism and Berserk, etc. while slightly increasing the result of split attacks. Even at high levels I am not seeing damaging results from wide % swings. Maybe we need to make it harder to split attacks so only Rune Lords and true Masters can do it. Then we don't need RQ4 Sweep Attacks which some players are trying to learn. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 8 Apr 1999 16:44:02 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Double Bonus? - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bob: >My variation is: >Base Skill = all experience: childhood (or starting), pre-game, and in-game >Apply all multipliers and divisors >Apply all additions and subtracts >Apply Limits like Ride That kind of makes sense, especially if there are bonuses or penalties that are target-specific, such as size or prone. I'd prefer to add magic and such *after* the Ride limit, maybe other bonuses as well. However, in your formula, a swordsman with 100% but only 50% ride can either make one attack at 50%, or two attacks at ... oh, 50%! If his sword skill increases to 149%, he can still only make two 50% attacks, but one more percent, and he can suddenly make a third attack at 50%! Does "Base Skill" include cat mod? It should. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. - -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: PGPfreeware 6.0.2i iQA/AwUBNwzQlF1SBDU3jy39EQJtJgCfQceNcfqtITKha+TAbWqkYuFPvOsAmwZT AwmZq5x3pgkKIfEkA6P5nc/Z =aqR9 - -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #65 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@mpgn.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. 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