From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #115 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Sunday, July 25 1999 Volume 02 : Number 115 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: Objet : Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened? [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #114 Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #114 Henotheists (was Objet : Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened?) Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened? Re: Objet : Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened? Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened? Re: Objet : Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened? Re: Objet : Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened? RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:41:32 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: Objet : Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened? > Also, I've found somewhere some rules for the Henotheists (I don't remenber where), and I found it very interesting, but it makes the Henotheists very powerful, using sorcery AND Rune magic. When my Orlanthist saw that, he said 'What's the point being Orlanthist, if you can have the same PLUS sorcery with the Henotheists' (plaese do not flame my player, he still is a Sartarite and very proud and happy to be one). Opinions? > Manu I still enforce the rule that sorcerers, priests, and shamans are mutually exclusive. The mental frameworks are not compatible to excel in more than one. I have played some modules where a chaos shaman was also written as a priest, but I don't allow this among normal cults. In my game, while you may be able to learn a little of all three types of magic, you cannot reach rune level in more than one, and reaching rune level in one restricts what you can do with the others. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:26:39 -0400 From: Richard Ohlson Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #114 How do people deal with merchant skills. The Bargain skill is sick, and really based on what the "asking cost" of an item is. How do you determine what the "asking cost" is going to be, and how do you deal with "trade goods" (Like lumber, or raw iron, or gems.) Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:47:06 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #114 > How do people deal with merchant skills. The Bargain skill is sick, and really based on what the "asking cost" of an item is. How do you determine what the "asking cost" is going to be, and how do you deal with "trade goods" (Like lumber, or raw iron, or gems.) > Rich If you are really going to deal with the trading of any goods, then the referee has to monitor two prices for each item. The first is a 'Fair Market Value' which represents what two Bargainers would agree on if they both had the same skill and rolled the same number. This value is less than, but close to, the 'normal' store price or published price list, since most merchants are better than most customers, unless the customer is a merchant too. You could also think of this as a wholesale or acquisition price with a moderate profit throw in for the merchant's efforts. The second is the 'Basic Cost to Produce', which includes the cost of materials, compensation for time, and any special investments like POW. This value can be 1/16 to 1/2 of the Fair Market value depending on how many middlemen marked up the item as they passed it on. Each shipper will try to double the price he paid if possible. This will be reduced if there is strong competition from locally produced goods or raised if the item is from an exclusive source. This is where you account for raw materials. At the source, the material only has a basic scarcity value which is added to the labor cost and finishing costs (smelting metals, sawing lumber, cutting gems). The easiest way to deal with these prices is to figure out what your conversion ratio is between your fantasy world and the real world. I price a silver Lunar in Glorantha at about $5 US. I can then look up the current price for a commodity and adjust it by differences in production methods. The changes do not need to be very great since automation savings here are balanced by cheaper manual labor there. Always remember that a merchant will never sell an item for less than he paid unless he is desperate to get rid of the item. This becomes his minimum sell price. Instead of using Bargain as written, I try to compare the rolls of the two Bargainers to give an adjustment to the Fair Market value, but I don't subtract them directly. I decide how much each one succeeded by, and check whether they are at the same level of success. If they are at the same level, I might adjust the price by the percent differences of their successes. If the level of success is different I might adjust the price by about 10% to 20% for each level difference, but it can never go below the acquisition price of the seller, unless the referee has a very good reason. This is an approximation method, not an exact math formula. The idea is to decide who won and how well. This is much simpler in the sense that both sides make one roll and the referee determines the adjusted final price. The buyer can refuse it but he cannot renegotiate it. I generally would not allow a new roll for two days or more... market conditions need to have time to adjust before the price can shift. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 20:00:25 EDT From: David Weihe Subject: Henotheists (was Objet : Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened?) > From: "Emmanuel Ponette" > Also, I've found somewhere some rules for the Henotheists (I don't remenber > where), and I found it very interesting, but it makes the Henotheists > very powerful, using sorcery AND Rune magic. When my Orlanthist saw that, > he said 'What's the point being Orlanthist, if you can have the same PLUS > sorcery with the Henotheists' (plaese do not flame my player, he still is > a Sartarite and very proud and happy to be one). Opinions? 1) What's the point in being Jewish? You can't eat a cheeseburger, or Lobster Newburgh or caviar, and you can't do anything on Saturday ... He doesn't worship of Orlanth because He gives *KEWL*MAGIC!*, he worships him because He represents the Type of man that he wants to be. The magic is a nice addition, of course, but there are Buserians who get crappy magic until they hit Rune levels but still worship the stars. 2) Some pure Orlanthi use sorcery without worshipping the Invisible God (at least any more than Kill The Evil Emperor is worship of Yelm). Of course, your average Sartari barbarian isn't likely to travel to Fronela to meet them, so that may be academic. Or, a good scenario hook. 3) Your Sartari Orlanthi can get battle/spirit magic, whereas the Henotheist must avoid it as pagan black magic. Spirit spells are more more effective for the average person who can't learn the High Magics of his/her type of magic. Spirit magic is given freely by a lot of the cultural Orlanthi spirits, whereas sorcery is hard won against an uncaring universe. On the Glorantha Digest a while back, we decided that a lot of hearth spirits ensure that their hearths are kept in better operation than physics alone should allow, more fuel efficient, hotter in use yet less likely to burn the stead occupants, easier to clean, etc. Henotheists would have to shun these spirits. 4) Orlanthi get divine magic depending on their link with Orlanth. Thus, on Glorantha, Henotheist/Stygian Orlanthi would lose a bit of power by its being bled off to the Invisible God (or his Sorceror priests?) instead of channeled to Big O. This hasn't been modeled well in RQ, alas, where a Humakti's death magic is no better than an Orlanthi's until the level of priests, which is illogical and against some Greggly pronouncements, as well. Modeled properly, Humakt should get noticibly better oomph or better spells than either Yanafals Tarnils or Humath, let alone Orlanth, but with really nasty geases to counteract their attractiveness. 5) Henotheists must follow the castes laid out by Malkion in the original Kingdom of Logic (although Orlanthi ones seem to change castes on occasion). Thus, the average carl doesn't get the right to learn much magic, but must depend on his local priests (the Zzaburi) to cast spells on him. This means that he has to keep on their good side. Likewise, a Henotheist priest cannot work to keep up his weapon skills, as that is a warrior caste job. 6) He is right, in a way. Henotheists have gradually been converting the bog-standard Orlanthi to their way over the centuries for just this reason. If he really doesn't mind that his soul will be snuffed out when he dies, rather than going to Orlanth's Hall and possibly back to meet and help his family, well, then let him convert. Then have no Henotheist priests teach him any sorcery except at sword's point, because they think that he is just a dirty pagan who wants their "secrets", until he has proven his conversion. How long did Paul of Tarsus wait between his conversion on the road to Damascus and his first missionary journey? I seem to remember it as almost an entire decade. PS: Sartar probably used sorcery, himself. How else to change attackers into termites? Things on the ground are much more complicated than the RQ3 Rulebook laid out. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:29:31 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened? MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote: > > So how many of us ARE there here on the Gearhead Digest? At least 3 that > I know of. The membership hovers in the high 60's. Lots of lurkers. > Well, I'm still up for some RQ Rules discussion.Keep it coming.lol! As am I. The BFRP list had alot of activity for awhile, but that's dropped off too. Summer is also a pretty slow time for most lists, as well. - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta (note change!) Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 18:32:51 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: Objet : Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened? Emmanuel Ponette wrote: > > And also, there are right now so many RQ sites with a lot of nice house rules that most of the rule questions and new stuffs are somewhere else. But sometimes, I read in the Glorantha list question more related to rules than to the World, and we (I?) should tell these people that this list exists and live. Folks do; I've seen 'em (and I do it myself sometimes, too. > Also, I've found somewhere some rules for the Henotheists (I don't remenber where), and I found it very interesting, but it makes the Henotheists very powerful, using sorcery AND Rune magic. When my Orlanthist saw that, he said 'What's the point being Orlanthist, if you can have the same PLUS sorcery with the Henotheists' (plaese do not flame my player, he still is a Sartarite and very proud and happy to be one). Opinions? Choice of religion is usually mre of a cultural issue than a 'who will grant me more power' issue. Children of Orlanthi parents usually grow up worshipping where their parent do, afterall. - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta (note change!) Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 22:46:17 -0700 From: Richard Pace Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened? There's a BFRP list? Richard Tal Meta wrote: > MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote: > > > > So how many of us ARE there here on the Gearhead Digest? At least 3 that > > I know of. > > The membership hovers in the high 60's. Lots of lurkers. > > > Well, I'm still up for some RQ Rules discussion.Keep it coming.lol! > > As am I. The BFRP list had alot of activity for awhile, but that's > dropped off too. Summer is also a pretty slow time for most lists, as > well. > > -- > talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic & Dilettante > ICQ - 12594453 > AIM - talmeta (note change!) > Homepage - > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 11:26:14 +0100 From: "Nikk Effingham" Subject: Re: Objet : Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened? >BTW, I've read few times ago somebody talking about the Illusion Art (in Sandy's Sorcery rules). I'm not aware of that. Is this a new version? (I mean more recent than the one published in The Booke of the Tentacles). It is briefly mentioned in the Booke of Tentacles I do believe (I'll have to check that). >Also, I've found somewhere some rules for the Henotheists (I don't remenber where), and I found it very interesting, but it makes the Henotheists very powerful, using sorcery AND Rune magic. When my Orlanthist saw that, he said 'What's the point being Orlanthist, if you can have the same PLUS sorcery with the Henotheists' (plaese do not flame my player, he still is a Sartarite and very proud and happy to be one). Opinions? Well, as I wrote the Henotheistic stuff you were referring to, I suppose I should reply. But David seems to have covered just about all of the points : ) I think a few still need to be made though: Caste restrictions are your biggest problems. One of the PCs in my game went from the Farmer Caste to Wizard Caste. Cool, he thought, I can learn sorcery and become the powerful magic user I always wanted to be (obviously, he wasn't quite so power gaming, I'm just paraphrasing). But his caste promptly told him that his life as a brewer was over, he could no longer participate in the holy Minlister rituals, and owning his own bar was still never going to happen as only Lord Caste can own land. And Lord Caste get crap sorcery, before you ask : ) The PC was far from pleased, having always set his sights on owning the biggest beer franchise in Otkorion. Caste restrictions for my version of the Church are very harsh in many ways. Secondly, only the Wizard Caste get sorcery worth talking about. A warrior can only get a spell or two going at any one time, so while they might have a Boost Damage or a Bless Sword, this is nothing compared to an Orlanthi charging in with Protection 8, Bladesharp 6, Coordination 2, Vigour 3 and Fanaticism. Warrior Caste Henotheists rarely get better at the sorcery they have, at higher levels, once they've mastered a few spells and taken a few vows, they get marginally better. They NEVER make good sorcery users though, they just have one or two spells to help in combat. Lord Caste and Farmer Caste members get good sorceror for doing the sort of things they need to do, like plowing the land or looking after court affairs. Not exactly the sort of magic every potential power gamer dreams of. So, if you want to be a rune magic death dealing sorceror you HAVE to be in the Wizard Caste. Thirdly, IMG no-one holds the duel positions of magus and priest of Orlanth. Not because it is impossible, but because it's too darn difficult to get your Magus skills up that high, accumulate the Rune Magic and skills for priesthood and then convince the Church to let you hold both titles. Maybe a PC in my game will do it, but I doubt it. Trying to spread your time too thinnly by being both a good priest and a good sorceror will leave you being a crap initiate and a crap adept while your comrades are rune lords of St. Humakt and Magi. The real problem with Henotheists is Saint Magic. Combine a Sever Spirit with St. Daly's Blessing and you have a deadly foe. But then this sort of thing is what convinced Orlanthi to turn to Henotheism in the first place. All IMO, Nikk NB I also don't want a new system. I have spent far too much time rewriting my house rules and detailing my campaign in RQ terms to be bothered to convert to Hero Wars. Perhaps I will run it as a seperate game, but RQ is here to stay. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 09:39:03 +1000 From: Robert McArthur Subject: Re: Objet : Re: [RQ-RULES] what happened? Emmanuel Ponette wrote: > > I'm not sure so many people will change to G:tG, at least I won't. But I think one of the reason this list is quite calm, is because not so many people knows it exists. I was part of the old one, and when it desappeared, it took me ages before I realised it was still on somewhere else. > And also, there are right now so many RQ sites with a lot of nice house rules that most of the rule questions and new stuffs are somewhere else. But sometimes, I read in the Glorantha list question more related to rules than to the World, and we (I?) should tell these people that this list exists and live. > > BTW, I've read few times ago somebody talking about the Illusion Art (in Sandy's Sorcery rules). I'm not aware of that. Is this a new version? (I mean more recent than the one published in The Booke of the Tentacles). There seems quite a number of versions of Sandy's around. Have a look at my illusion magic page which includes the illusion art: http://www.dstc.edu.au/RDU/staff/rm/my_illusion.html Cheers Robert *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #115 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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