From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #116 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Monday, July 26 1999 Volume 02 : Number 116 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Mixing Magic [RQ-RULES] Bargain skill RE: [RQ-RULES] Mixing Magic Objet : RE: [RQ-RULES] Mixing Magic RE: Objet : RE: [RQ-RULES] Mixing Magic [RQ-RULES] Missing posts [RQ-RULES] Strengthening Enchantments RE: [RQ-RULES] Strengthening Enchantments Re: [RQ-RULES] Strengthening Enchantments [RQ-RULES] Re. BFRP Project Re: [RQ-RULES] Mixing Magic Re: [RQ-RULES] Mixing Magic RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 05:25:16 -0400 (EDT) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Mixing Magic Bob Stancliff : > I still enforce the rule that sorcerers, priests, and > shamans are mutually exclusive. The mental frameworks are > not compatible to excel in more than one. I have played > some modules where a chaos shaman was also written as a > priest, but I don't allow this among normal cults. I agree in general, although I think there are some religions where there is a certain ammount of merging between two traditions. In fact most cults teach both rune magic and spirit magic, for example. In the version of Henotheism I've used, cult spirit magic is replaced by sorcery spells and no spirit magic is tought. At higher levels in the cult you can choose to either become a sorcerer and learn the sorcery manipulation skills, or you can become a priest and learn re-usable rune magic, but you _cannot_ do both. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 05:29:17 -0400 (EDT) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Bargain skill Richard Ohlson : > How do people deal with merchant skills. The Bargain skill > is sick, and really based on what the "asking cost" of an > item is. How do you determine what the "asking cost" is > going to be, and how do you deal with "trade goods" (Like > lumber, or raw iron, or gems.) For many trade goods, you can use the price lists in the RQ3 rules for rural, small and large cities as a guide for prices. I agree though that prices for common trade goods such as the ones you suggest would be very helpfull. I've never had any major problems with bargain skill, usualy it does the job adequately so long as you give NPC traders suitable rankings in the skill. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:26:48 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Mixing Magic Bob: > I still enforce the rule that sorcerers, priests, and > shamans are mutually exclusive. The mental frameworks > are not compatible to excel in more than one. I have played > some modules where a chaos shaman was also written as a > priest, but I don't allow this among normal cults. Some priests are definitively shamans, though, such as Kyger Litor and Aldrya. Simon: >In the version of Henotheism I've used, ... >At higher levels in the cult you can choose to >either become a sorcerer and learn the sorcery >manipulation skills, or you can become a priest >and learn re-usable rune magic, but you _cannot_ >do both. I don't think it's a matter of character choice. In a given region, there will be a balance between the two that varies from almost entirely theist in the hill forts of the wilds, to almost entirely sorcerous in the cities of the Mirrorsea Bay. It's up to the referee to choose a balance and judge whether the particular combination that the player wants is fair. Ideally, a set of cult writeups for varying levels of westernisation would be nice. I have an Aeolian (not yet played) who uses entirely sorcerous magic, but has an allied spirit. It's a big bonus in comparison to a familiar (large INT), but he has a limited range of magic to choose from. Also, it was paid for using Nikk's points based system, so I don't feel too guilty about it. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 03:45:13 -0600 From: "Emmanuel Ponette" Subject: Objet : RE: [RQ-RULES] Mixing Magic What is this 'Nikk's point based system'? BTW, Thanks for the answers. Manu >>> "Hibbs, Philip" 07/26 11:26 >>> I don't think it's a matter of character choice. In a given region, there will be a balance between the two that varies from almost entirely theist in the hill forts of the wilds, to almost entirely sorcerous in the cities of the Mirrorsea Bay. It's up to the referee to choose a balance and judge whether the particular combination that the player wants is fair. Ideally, a set of cult writeups for varying levels of westernisation would be nice. I have an Aeolian (not yet played) who uses entirely sorcerous magic, but has an allied spirit. It's a big bonus in comparison to a familiar (large INT), but he has a limited range of magic to choose from. Also, it was paid for using Nikk's points based system, so I don't feel too guilty about it. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 10:53:06 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: Objet : RE: [RQ-RULES] Mixing Magic >What is this 'Nikk's point based system'? http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/7556/chargen.htm It can be quite complex, but I've written a spreadsheet for it: http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/points.xls (MS Excel format) http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/points (Psion 5 format) Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:28:15 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Missing posts My email is playing up, I'm missing posts, so I appologise if I repeat what someone's already said. I get the digest as well, though, so I shouldn't miss anything in the long run so long as I keep checking both. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:47:10 +0100 From: "Nikk Effingham" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Strengthening Enchantments Can anyone tell me where the rules stand on str. enchantments? Can you stack them? I mean, can you find a str. enchantment that adds 8 hit points to your total and then make/buy/find another than adds 6 hit points to you for a total of 14 hp? If this is the case what do I do with my resident rules hacker who is well on his way to 60 hit points? : ) Nikk _____________________________________________ "If absolute power corrupts absolutely, where does that leave God?" -- George Daacon Nikk Effingham E-Mail: nikk@MailAndNews.com Homepage: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/7556/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 15:44:39 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Strengthening Enchantments >Can anyone tell me where the rules stand on str. enchantments? >Can you stack them? I mean, can you find a str. enchantment that >adds 8 hit points to your total and then make/buy/find another than >adds 6 hit points to you for a total of 14 hp? Magic Book, Ritual section, plus errata which reduces them to 1d3. Sandy's version is one-shot stackable enchantment, so if you have Strengthening Enchantment 6, 1 POW gives +6 hit points, but if you then acquire Strengthening Enchantment 8, 1 POW only gives you +2. >If this is the case what do I do with my resident rules >hacker who is well on his way to 60 hit points? : ) Give him a chance (eg: 1% per enchantment on the location) of someone breaking an enchantment when he is hit with a slashing weapon. They cost 1 POW to fix. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 11:53:48 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Strengthening Enchantments Nikk Effingham wrote: > > Can anyone tell me where the rules stand on str. enchantments? Can you stack > them? I mean, can you find a str. enchantment that adds 8 hit points to your > total and then make/buy/find another than adds 6 hit points to you for a > total of 14 hp? If this is the case what do I do with my resident rules > hacker who is well on his way to 60 hit points? : ) I would say that you'd have to create a larger enchantment each time, so that if you original S.E.1 (1 POW sacked) gave you 4 HP, and your second S.E.2 (2 POW sacked) gave you 5 HP, you'd only be up 5, not 9. If the next S.E. only gave you 3 HP, you could get rid of the tattoo or whatever and return to 5 HP, but I probably wouldn't let them stack up quite as high as 60... - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta (note change!) Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 12:40:23 -0400 (EDT) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re. BFRP Project The BFRP project has been mentioned here recently. Unfortunately the list is pretty dead at the moment. We have got several portions of rules text submitted already. These are a stab at a skills list, with some skill descriptions, a draft turn sequence with spot rules for a variety of manoeuvres in combat and the skeleton of a damage system. The main reason for the BFRP project was that there was no BRP based fantasy RPG in print at the time. Thus it made sense to create a fan-produced BRP compatible rules text that could be used with the large amount of BRP fantasy gaming resources out there. Since then Chaosium has announced plans to reprint Elric!, which realy pulls the rug from under us. The last thing I want to do is be seen to be undercutting Chaosium's market. I would like to see fan produced expansions for Elric taking it into non-moorcockian directions. In fact I've made a stab at that myself. An early draft of my house rules for running Gloranthan camapigns using the Elric core mechanics are (I believe) still up on David Dunham's web page. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:27:48 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Mixing Magic > > I still enforce the rule that sorcerers, priests, and > > shamans are mutually exclusive. The mental frameworks are > > not compatible to excel in more than one. I have played > > some modules where a chaos shaman was also written as a > > priest, but I don't allow this among normal cults. > > I agree in general, although I think there are some > religions where there is a certain ammount of merging > between two traditions. In fact most cults teach both > rune magic and spirit magic, for example. In the > version of Henotheism I've used, cult spirit magic > is replaced by sorcery spells and no spirit magic is > tought. At higher levels in the cult you can choose to > either become a sorcerer and learn the sorcery > manipulation skills, or you can become a priest and > learn re-usable rune magic, but you _cannot_ do both. > Simon Hibbs Your last sentence is the main point. Nothing in the rules prohibits low level characters from learning spells for all three types of magic, but to progress to rune level requires a dedication to a mind set that cannot be shared or spread out. For shamans, it is awakening the fetch and moving your consciousness into the spirit plane. For priests, it is tying your soul to the god so strongly that you get regularly reusable spells. For sorcerers, it is not so clearly defined, but I think that it is when you move from student to apprentice and learn the higher manipulations (beyond intensity). From a game mechanics and experience equality viewpoint, it should be when a familiar is created, but a familiar is only a token 'right of passage' and doesn't change the body of knowledge available to the adept. A rules lawyer, however, would run a character that learned all of the sorcery manipulations to high skill levels but never made a familiar, and would still try to become a priest, because he wasn't a 'rune level' yet. the only valid 'ritual of passage' for sorcery is the shift to apprentice. While cults do teach spirit magic, these are slave or servant spirits of the god, and many share ties to the same runes as the god. The available spells are greatly limited and the intensities available should be limited also, at least for any spells tied to the lesser runes of the god and especially those tied to runes that the god does not have. Only shamans have unlimited access to the full range of spirits, and even then, those shamans of gods that allow them (Aldrya, River, etc), are greatly restricted in the types of spirits that they are allowed to interact with. Unfortunately this is not well defined. Orlanth had such a successful career and defeated so many foes or made so many allies, that he has many spirit spells available that are not related to his runes. Heal should be coming from his friend Chalana, Bladesharp should be coming from his once owning Death, etc. In general these are nicely assigned, and it is correct that no cult has more than a few spirit spells, but there should have been an additional discussion that most of these spells can only have small intensities: i.e. Heal 4 or Bladesharp 4 maximum. This is in contrast to Chalana, the primary god of Healing, who should have unlimited access to Heal, just as Humakt should have unlimited access to Bladesharp. Even a Death cult like Yanafel should have some intensity limit such as 8 or less, because he is a lesser shadow of the god who owns Death. If someone argues that Yanafel owns Death in Peloria, and not Humakt, then I might concede that he should have unlimited access at Pelorian temples, but not anywhere else, and the reverse for Humakt. It is the nature of the cult system that a worshipper is greatly restricted by (and to) the god's sphere of influence. Huge gaps exist if you rely on only one god's powers. The culture is healthiest when all of the priests share their special powers and work together. A generic shaman, on the other hand, has to fill all of the roles of a pantheon, and this is possible due to his unlimited access to all spirits. When fertility and healing are needed, he can find spirits for it, when death and protection are needed, he can find other spirits. These spirits are basically stolen or borrowed from their normal service to the gods, and therefor can be of any size. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 13:44:59 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Mixing Magic > Bob: > > I still enforce the rule that sorcerers, priests, and > > shamans are mutually exclusive. The mental frameworks > > are not compatible to excel in more than one. I have played > > some modules where a chaos shaman was also written as a > > priest, but I don't allow this among normal cults. > > Some priests are definitively shamans, though, such as Kyger Litor and > Aldrya. The example you should have listed is Daka Fal, although it directly applies to the ones you mentioned. This is an example of a shamanic 'spirit cult' raised to the level of a near religion. In a normal spirit cult, only one spell is available, but in these 'ancestor worship' cases, worship continued and grew until more divine spells became available. The ancestor/god has been raised to roughly the strength of a normal cult god, but the worship is shamanic, as is the leader. The borderline cults fall into two categories; those that have shamans who get a small set of reusable divine spells (and seem like priests), and those that can have both priests and shamans but a person has to pick one or the other (River cult). If these regions were to become more civilized over time, then the shamanic aspects of the cults would eventually fade away to leave a normal divine cult. Usually this doesn't happen due to the general hardships of life preventing the population densities needed to shift the nature of the culture. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) http://commnections.com/upgrades *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #116 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.