From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #130 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, August 18 1999 Volume 02 : Number 130 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] let loose the Elementals! [RQ-RULES] RQ4 [RQ-RULES] Vampires Re: [RQ-RULES] let loose the Elementals! Re: [RQ-RULES] Vampires Re: [RQ-RULES] Illusory Gold and Women [RQ-RULES] RE:Elementals RE: [RQ-RULES] Illusory Gold and Women [RQ-RULES] VA gamers [RQ-RULES] Illumination Rules Re: [RQ-RULES] VA gamers Re: [RQ-RULES] VA gamers [RQ-RULES] Diabolical Contracts - Thoughts? RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:31:12 EDT From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] let loose the Elementals! Hey all, For a while now I've noticed some slight oddities in RQ3 concerning Elemental SIZ. On pg203, 3rd paragraph it says: "If a point value is needed for an elemental's SIZ, the elemental's hit points can be used as its SIZ.Thus, if an elemental with 10 hit points climbed into a box and was lifted by an adventurer, its SIZ could be treated as if it were 10." This works just _fine_ when dealing with 3 of the elementals( Fire, Air & Darkness), but when you're dealing with the _other_ materials (Earth & Water), things start getting screwy. According to my source( an old '70's paperback on the benefits of _our friend_ the Metric system taking over North America ) water weighs in at 62.5 lbs/cubic foot, and there are 35.3 cubic feet/m3. That makes for a 1m3 Undine weigh in at SIZ 42. A 3m3 Undine turns out to be SIZ 55. A 10m3 Undine turns out to be SIZ 69. About the Earth Elemental: I prefer them to be what I think of as the "classic" Earth Elemental; the big,roughly human-shaped mound of moving earth & stone.The "standard" RQ beastie has always been the oddity to me.Y'know, the Big Pit? So, A cubic foot of granite is _supposedly_ 144 lbs. This makes a 1m3 gargoyle SIZ 52. A 3m3 gargoyle is SIZ 64. A 10m3 gargoyle is SIZ 78. If you decided to use this updated SIZ, then the "HP become the Gargoyle's SIZ" portion of the "Gnome to Gargoyle" spell becomes incorrect. However,for that matter I'm not exactly sure as to just _how_ HPs should be determined: Maybe they equal SIZ now?with the Sm & Md versions getting a _definite_ increase,while the Lg version loses some.Maybe HPs are simply generated as they were previously...You tell me :) Just _try_ to lift a trunk with one of these things inside. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 22:38:22 EDT From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] RQ4 Hi, I played in a RQ3/RQ4 game last night, and once I got home I decided to check some old discs for the RQ4 rules.I found 'em,but they repeatedly refused to come up due to some sort of error. Anyhow,,just where on the net _can_ these rules be found these days? Thanx, -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 01:11:36 -0400 From: Richard Ohlson Subject: [RQ-RULES] Vampires > > Yeah, that's the ticket. So that means that a vampire who really prepares > can stock up on Magic Points and then hope that it doesn't ruin his fatigue > points. In this case, I suggest a minor alteration, otherwise a vampire > would Tap up their magic points and then spend them all before the end of > the day so that they didn't have to expend masses of FP's. Or, you do what smart vampire hunters do, and go after them during the day, when they're napping with 15 mps. Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 11:36:11 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] let loose the Elementals! > For a while now I've noticed some slight oddities in RQ3 concerning > Elemental SIZ. > On pg203, 3rd paragraph it says: "If a point value is needed for an > elemental's SIZ, the elemental's hit points can be used as its SIZ.Thus, if > This works just _fine_ when dealing with 3 of the elementals( Fire, Air & > Darkness), but when you're dealing with the _other_ materials (Earth & > Water), things start getting screwy. The person who wrote this really didn't think it out. Sylphs and Shades can fly and are probably buoyant in air, and I see no pressing reason that a Salamander isn't also. We already know their volume, so SIZ has no meaning in terms of weight, only for a comparison to human size, and since the HP dice are proportional to the volume, this seems to be their intention, not to assign weight. > According to my source( an old '70's paperback on the benefits of _our > friend_ the Metric system taking over North America ) water weighs in at 62.5 > lbs/cubic foot, and there are 35.3 cubic feet/m3. > That makes for a 1m3 Undine weigh in at SIZ 42. > About the Earth Elemental: I prefer them to be what I think of as the > "classic" Earth Elemental; the big,roughly human-shaped mound of moving earth > & stone.The "standard" RQ beastie has always been the oddity to me.Y'know, > the Big Pit? But this is one of the things that make Glorantha so individual... get used to it. > So, A cubic foot of granite is _supposedly_ 144 lbs. > This makes a 1m3 gargoyle SIZ 52. Earth Elementals are loose dirt, sand and gravel, they would weigh as little as half of the equivalent volume of granite, but the above argument applies here as well. The SIZ based on HP's is only to compare to human size, not weight. > If you decided to use this updated SIZ, then the "HP become the Gargoyle's > SIZ" portion of the "Gnome to Gargoyle" spell becomes incorrect. You are trying to take the volume, convert it into mass, convert the mass to SIZ and turn the SIZ into HP's. This is completely wrong. The volume is assigned by the GM, the HP's are rolled, and everything else is determined from them (including Gargoyle size, which doesn't equate to weight either). Mass is not important since no one is going to pick one up. Either you have a bind, you summon it, or it gets there by itself. Bob Stancliff (stanclif@ufl.edu) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:14:16 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Vampires > Or, you do what smart vampire hunters do, and go after them during the day, when > they're napping with 15 mps. > Rich Remember that Tapped stat points are not a renewable resource, they are permanent losses. A Vampire would have to have complete control of a large town to not accidentally kill everyone by Tapping. Most people would leave or die, and the vampire would lose his magic resource. Great restraint is required. On the other hand, keeping enough prisoners for basic blood needs is more feasible, and can be maintained for long periods of time. Once they have been reduced to low Str, a basic exercise regimen will keep them alive and restore blood points fairly quickly. Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 12:40:47 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Illusory Gold and Women > So explain illusory armies from Dragon Pass? As long as there isn't > a holder of the inifinity rune nearby, the *are* real. They kill > you. They kill your friends. They kill magician units. etc. etc. > The only people who can tell them apart from 'reality' are the > infinity rune holders, and we're not going to disagree with > them are we :-) ? > Robert Any good illusionist can do it. You make a very strong Illusory Touch and have it hit someone. It does damage until it kills them. The Illusory Sight, Sound and Smell are just to add believability; it enhances the myth and scares the rustics. Plus all of the spells are stacked and cast as one spell, so the intensity is huge! It looks like a sword is killing them, but it is Illusory Touch. The reason Infinity holders can stop them is that they are strong enough to dispel the very high intensities of the stacked illusions. Few priests learn more than Dismiss 5 to 7, and few spiritists have more than Dispel 8. A sorcerer would be able to take them apart, given time and a LOT of magic points. Can any of the illusion spells be weakened by physical damage? An illusory soldier would just keep coming until the spell ended. Hit it with anything you want, it doesn't matter unless you can dispel, dismiss, or neutralize it. The wonderful surprise of the Illusory army is that the Puppeteers can switch places with their illusions, and suddenly the army is real, with full magic support. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Aug 1999 23:43:49 EDT From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] RE:Elementals Hey gang, Last post I was having some problems with Elemental SIZ.;especially the HP=SIZ concept pertaining to just how much an Elemental weighs in the unlikely event it were to hop into a box and a character tried to lift it. This works just _fine_ when dealing with 3 of the elementals (Fire, Air & Darkness);creatures with essentially _no_ mass.So SIZ has no meaning in terms of weight, as Bob was nice enough to point out.Besides, I wouldn't even _know_ how to assign weights to Fire,Air, or Darkness ( I doubt that they even have any). As I said, _my_ problem starts when dealing with the _other_ materials ( Earth & Water).While the HP = SIZ thing works for the massless Elementals, _both_ Earth & Water, whether volumes of just plain material, or whether these materials are somehow _alive_ , are BOTH going to have some sort of weight (and thus SIZ ) determined by their volumes. So, 1m3 of water (or Water Elemental,assuming they're both made of _plain_ water ) should come out to be equivalent to SIZ 42.Certianly a lot _heavier_ than the 10HP=10SIZ creature mentioned in the elemental-in-a-box example above.Even if a 1m3 Undine is at full HP (12 HP),it'd still only have a SIZ of 12 by the rules. The 3m3 Undine,at full 36HP would work out to be SIZ 36 by the rules,when the volume of the water involved _should_ give it SIZ 55. The 10m3 Undine,at full 120HP (damn!) would work out to be SIZ 120 by the rules, when the volume of water involved _should_ give it SIZ 69. I think the Undine SIZ stuff worked out pretty well,if I do say so myself. The Earth Elemental stuff,OTOH,wasn't quite so smooth...Bob was,I hate to admit, _right_ ( about _this_ part,at least) when he said that I really didn't think it out..( Oh sure, the stuff is _fine_ when its up there in your _head_ where it all makes perfect sense,but then if you forget to note something while putting it down on paper..... OOPS! ). My preference for a more "classic" (or _D&Dish_) Earth Elemental over the hole-in-the-ground Gloranthan one got what _I_ thought was a somewhat dismissive "But this is one of the things that make Glorantha so individual... get used to it." response from Bob.Well, I'm trying to discuss the rules here,not slavishly trying to stick with what is or is not appropo to Glorantha. My version of the Earth Elemental is that while still in the earth,it acts just like the ol' Gloranthan pit-in-the-ground Gnome.When its actually up on the surface, through application of the Gnome-to-Gargoyle spell, it differs from the stats-listed-in-the- spell somewhat, in that the 1m3, 3m3, or 10m3 pit in the ground becomes a roughly 1m3, 3m3, or 10m3 roughly humanoid mass of shambling earth & stone. I used the SIZ I did for the various Earth Elementals based strictly on the weight of a cubic foot of granite soley because _that_ was what I had data for.If I'd had data for some sort of mix a little-less-than-solid-rock, I'm sure that their SIZes would've been considerably less than I'd figured.I wouldn't be surprised in the least to find that Bob is correct in his statement that they would weigh as little as half of the equivalent volume of granite. Once I'd wound up figuring the Elementals' SIZes, I wasn't too sure if or how I should refigure HP.At one point I thought that maybe HP could equal SIZ ,with the Sm & Md versions getting a _definite_ increase,while the Lg version would lose some points. This idea struck Bob as _completely_ wrong.Which it is, as I saw after mailing, as it was unfair HPwise to some of the massless Elementals.And I sure didn't wanna have to start monkeying with _them_, as I'd never had a problem with them. I'm figuring to just keep the HPs as they are in the RQ3 rules,since they've always worked pretty well anyhow. At one point Bob is pretty certian that Mass is not important since _no_ one is going to pick one up. Really?NO ONE?While I myself think it _highly_ unlikely that anyone would actually get a 1m3 Elemental ( of any kind ) to climb into a box to be lifted ( let alone a 3M3 or 10m3 specimen ).But you never _know_ what hairbrained ideas the players might come up with at any given time ( and boy, I know _I've_ been there for some absolutley CRAZY ones). I really appreciate the interest Bob has shown in my Elemental ramblings,and his valuable input.He got me _really_ thinking...Heck,he even pissed me off a couple of times too! Thanks Bob Your Pal, -Ken Murphy- See you all when I next decide to unlurk :) Be Fiann-valorous in your wounding exploits! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 12:15:06 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Illusory Gold and Women >Plus all of the spells are stacked and >cast as one spell, so the intensity is huge! The intensities don't add up for the purpose of dispelling. Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Failure is not an option, it's integral to the o/s. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 07:39:29 EDT From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] VA gamers Hi gang, I've got a question thats a lil off-topic,but do any of you RQers live in VA? I have an accquaintence in VA who's having a tough time finding fellow RQ players. Thanks, Your pal, -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Aug 1999 08:32:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Gustavo Magenta Subject: [RQ-RULES] Illumination Rules Hi guys I need information about Illumination Rules. Where I can find this rules? Are this rules in the net? Thank you for your help. Gustavo === Best regards, Gustavo Sergio Magenta Juan B. Alberdi 1418 1° B (1406) Buenos Aires, Argentina. TE: 54-1-431-9833 e-mail: gmagenta@yahoo.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:07:24 -0400 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] VA gamers Well we have a gaming group in norfolk not using rq yet but I have all the stuff and am just looking for a good excuse to start a rq game though I mainly play rq2 with some rq 3 only because I'm not as familiar with rq 3 as rq 2 but willing to learn more LOL Ken MurfNMurf@aol.com wrote: > Hi gang, > I've got a question thats a lil off-topic,but do any of you RQers live in > VA? I have an accquaintence in VA who's having a tough time finding fellow RQ > players. > Thanks, > Your pal, > -Ken- > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 14:28:36 EDT From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] VA gamers Thanks, I've sent the info on to my friend.Hopefully she'll be contacting you soon :) -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Aug 1999 16:09:01 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] Diabolical Contracts - Thoughts? In the course of my RQ/Greyhawk project, I knew that eventually I'd have to work out some sort of rules for folks worshipping things that were neither gods nor spirits, but somewhere in between. I chose to tackle the Lords of Hell first, as their lawful nature provides a common framework for the lot of them. Below is what I've come up with thusfar; commentary is welcome on it, as I am trying to scale the powers the devils grant against those that could be obtained simply by worshipping an evil god. Diabolic Contracts An alternative to Divine Worship for RQ Magicians Though some might question the wisdom of it, countless mortals across the ages have offered their souls to the Lords of Hell for increased power in this life. Though carefully guarded, the secrets of summoning the Lords of Hell resurface from time to time, to be learned anew by incautious sorcerers and others seeking a quick and easy path to power. In nearly every case, the arch-Devils of the Hells are similar in stature to, but somehow less than, the very gods themselves. Why this is so, none have yet divined; perhaps they are gods, and they have simply chosen a form of worship that differs from that of all others. Two notable exceptions to this are Asmodeus, arguably the most powerful of the arch-Devils and their defacto leader. The other is Tiamat, Queen of the Chromatic Dragons. Both are full gods in their own right, and often as not accept worship directly. Whenever a mortal seeks to entreat the Lords of Hell, he must make certain preparations. A Circle of Protection must be inscribed (in which the caster must stand), as well as a Thaumaturgic Triangle in which to hold the summoned fiend (the Hells are a lawful domain, so a triangle is an effective barrier). Coupled with these physical trappings are the proper spells and the willingness to enter into the bargains the Lords of Hell will demand in return for their services. A diabolic Contract typically takes two forms. A Lesser Contract generally requires the summoner to bargain with the arch-Devil for the granting of a single boon. This could take the form of increased abilities, skill mastery, spell knowledge, or the services of a minor imp or other minor devilkin. The cost for such a service is typically measured in POW (how much depends upon both the arch-Devil in question and the perceived suitability of the summoner) and a minor blood sacrifice (a single human soul is generally sufficient). A Greater Contract is far more demanding. In such a contract, the arch-Devil promises even greater aid, often in the form of service, against which the summoner pledges his very soul. A Greater Contract is generally sealed in the blood of many sacrifices, and with the gift of a Talisman from the arch-Devil to the summoner. The powers of these Talismans are two-fold. First, it serves as a link between the summoner and his new leige, allowing him to request aid or information as needed. Each use of the Talisman in this way requires the sacrifice of a single point of POW, which may be drawn from that contained within the Talisman (see below). Secondly, it serves as a receptacle for the mortal's soul. Each time the summoner receives additional POW, it is drawn within the Talisman, providing the summoner with several benefits. The Talisman will serve as would a bound POW spirit, providing a self-renewing source of magic points. Unlike a bound spirit, however, the holder of a Talisman may use the POW stored there for the purpose of contacting their leige, forging enchantments, or any other use to which the caster's own POW could be used, except that he cannot apply the POW within the Talisman for spell defense (i.e. POW vs POW rolls). The summoner in question may even draw more POW from the Talisman than he himself has residing there, but this is fraught with danger. For each such point of POW the mortal is in arrears, there is a 10% chance that the arch-Devil with whom he has bargained with will notice and come to claim his soul in full. If, at the time of the mortal's eventual death, the POW contained within is equal to at least twice that he possessed at the time of his original bargain, he will be given a place in the arch-Devil's retinue as a minor devil instead of becoming one of the lost souls tormented by the denizens of that realm. It is important to remember that while the Lords of Hell are bound by Law, they delight in twisting the spirit of any bargain for their own ends. They are not above manipulating their servants against one another, so that one might draw upon more POW than they possess and then be ripe for harvest, as it were. - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic & Dilettante ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta (note change!) Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #130 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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