From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #147 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Saturday, September 11 1999 Volume 02 : Number 147 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : RE: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : RE: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : [RQ-RULES] Encumbrance in RQ3... RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 07 Sep 99 08:42:21 +0000 From: mike bate Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : > I read this as meaning that the god takes the adventurer's full POW in > the form of the adventurer's complete soul. For me this is analogous > to a person beting their freedom on a chariot race, loosing and ending up > being a slave of the person they wagered against. The winner now owns their > body, in the form of the complete person. in the same way, I think the > god takes the person's full POW, which is forfeit, in the form of the > person's intact soul bound in service. Pow is not equivalent to soul, the two can be separated. A person can lose all of their Pow in a DI, the Pow loss kills them, and then the god takes them home. > >So, there aren't many references to what happens to a spirit > >with POW 0, but all there are do say that it ceases to exist. wrong > That is my understanding of the intent of the game designers. I clearly showed two references that say that when any stat goes to zero, the body dies, but they do not say that the soul ceases to exist. Only Soul Waste destroys the soul, that is why it is worded different from the others. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RFC822 header - ----------------------------------- RECEIVED: from SF_Database by POP_Mailbox_-1275460082 ; 07 SEP 99 00:00:14 UT Received: by orpheus (mbox jsatch) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Mon Sep 6 23:59:57 1999) X-From_: daemon Mon Sep 6 20:31:18 1999 Received: from lists.imagiconline.com (lists.imagiconline.com [204.85.32.11]) by orpheus.hosts.netdirect.net.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA14402 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:31:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA94110; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:19:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com) Received: by lists.imagiconline.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:19:55 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id PAA94101 for runequest-rules-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:19:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com) Received: from smtp.ufl.edu (sp28fe.nerdc.ufl.edu [128.227.128.108]) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA94096 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:19:53 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from stanclif@ufl.edu) Received: from ufl.edu (sp17.nerdc.ufl.edu [128.227.128.17]) by smtp.ufl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/2.2.1) with ESMTP id PAA50970 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:19:53 -0400 Received: from vpnet (dp051230.shands.ufl.edu [10.227.51.230]) by ufl.edu (8.9.0/8.9.1/2.3.1) with ESMTP id PAA295194 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:19:52 -0400 Message-Id: <199909061919.PAA295194@ufl.edu> From: "Bob Stancliff" To: Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:19:55 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 07 Sep 99 08:42:27 +0000 From: mike bate Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : > Please quote any instances in which the rules say that a person can be reduced > to zero POW and still exist. The only case mentioned in RQ3 is Soul Waste, which > clearly says the person's soul ceases to exist. The only case mentioned in > the rules _contradicts_ your assertion. The fact that it is a DISEASE description proves that it is the exception. You have the duty to prove that a disease rule applies to all other causes of Pow loss. Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RFC822 header - ----------------------------------- RECEIVED: from SF_Database by POP_Mailbox_-1275460082 ; 07 SEP 99 00:00:14 UT Received: by orpheus (mbox jsatch) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Mon Sep 6 23:59:57 1999) X-From_: daemon Mon Sep 6 20:46:00 1999 Received: from lists.imagiconline.com (lists.imagiconline.com [204.85.32.11]) by orpheus.hosts.netdirect.net.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18948 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 20:45:54 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA94822; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:34:52 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com) Received: by lists.imagiconline.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:34:52 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id PAA94813 for runequest-rules-outgoing; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:34:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com) Received: from smtp.ufl.edu (sp28fe.nerdc.ufl.edu [128.227.128.108]) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA94808 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:34:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from stanclif@ufl.edu) Received: from ufl.edu (sp17.nerdc.ufl.edu [128.227.128.17]) by smtp.ufl.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3/2.2.1) with ESMTP id PAA112026 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:34:50 -0400 Received: from vpnet (dp051230.shands.ufl.edu [10.227.51.230]) by ufl.edu (8.9.0/8.9.1/2.3.1) with ESMTP id PAA193346 for ; Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:34:50 -0400 Message-Id: <199909061934.PAA193346@ufl.edu> From: "Bob Stancliff" To: Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 15:34:53 -0400 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:32:06 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : >I clearly showed two references that say that when any stat goes to >zero, the body dies, but they do not say that the soul ceases to exist. Hang on, wasn't one of those the ageing rules? If it was, it's kind of irrelevant, as POW does not decrease with age, so it's not talking about POW at that stage. To be honest, I have no idea why I'm argueing this point any more, it's one of the more irrelevant tangents that we've had. If you roll POW, you're gone, poof, end of roleplaying career. Generate a new character. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:34:18 +0100 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : >The fact that it is a DISEASE description proves that it is the >exception. You have the duty to prove that a disease rule >applies to all other causes of Pow loss. No, it provides circumstantial evidence that it's an exception. What other methods of POW reaching 0 are there? Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 05:01:16 -0400 (EDT) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Bob : >> Please quote any instances in which the rules say that a person can be reduced >> to zero POW and still exist. The only case mentioned in RQ3 is Soul Waste, which >> clearly says the person's soul ceases to exist. The only case mentioned in >> the rules _contradicts_ your assertion. > The fact that it is a DISEASE description proves that it is the >exception. You have the duty to prove that a disease rule applies to all >other causes of Pow loss. Why should the fact that this rule is applied in the case of diseases have ny bearing on whether it's applicable as a general rule? Is there some metarule of roleplaying I'm not aware of that says that disease rules always have to be special cases? It seems clear that we're not going to persuade each other. The only way to resolve this is to appeal to a higher authority, perhaps if/when Sandy pops up on the group again. Alternatively I could ask him in person at Convulsion, but that's not untill next summer. It's a shame there's not a searchable archive of the digest because I'm sure there would be usefull discussions on related topics back when Sandy, and perhaps Steve Perrin, were sctive here. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 07 Sep 99 11:07:22 +0000 From: mike bate Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Bob : >> Please quote any instances in which the rules say that a person can be reduced >> to zero POW and still exist. The only case mentioned in RQ3 is Soul Waste, which >> clearly says the person's soul ceases to exist. The only case mentioned in >> the rules _contradicts_ your assertion. > The fact that it is a DISEASE description proves that it is the >exception. You have the duty to prove that a disease rule applies to all >other causes of Pow loss. Why should the fact that this rule is applied in the case of diseases have ny bearing on whether it's applicable as a general rule? Is there some metarule of roleplaying I'm not aware of that says that disease rules always have to be special cases? It seems clear that we're not going to persuade each other. The only way to resolve this is to appeal to a higher authority, perhaps if/when Sandy pops up on the group again. Alternatively I could ask him in person at Convulsion, but that's not untill next summer. It's a shame there's not a searchable archive of the digest because I'm sure there would be usefull discussions on related topics back when Sandy, and perhaps Steve Perrin, were sctive here. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RFC822 header - ----------------------------------- RECEIVED: from SF_Database by POP_Mailbox_-1275420480 ; 07 SEP 99 11:00:16 UT Received: by orpheus (mbox jsatch) (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.31 1998/05/13) Tue Sep 7 10:59:59 1999) X-From_: daemon Tue Sep 7 10:12:02 1999 Received: from lists.imagiconline.com (lists.imagiconline.com [204.85.32.11]) by orpheus.hosts.netdirect.net.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10529 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 10:12:01 +0100 (BST) Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id FAA29281; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 05:01:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com) Received: by lists.imagiconline.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 7 Sep 1999 05:01:18 -0400 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id FAA29272 for runequest-rules-outgoing; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 05:01:18 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com) Received: from rmx07.globecomm.net (rmx07.iname.net [165.251.8.75]) by lists.imagiconline.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id FAA29267 for ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 05:01:17 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Received: from weba7.iname.net by rmx07.globecomm.net (8.9.1/8.8.0) with ESMTP id FAA02100 ; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 05:01:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by weba7.iname.net (8.9.1a/8.9.2.Alpha2) id FAA15819; Tue, 7 Sep 1999 05:01:16 -0400 (EDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <99090705011639.11968@weba7.iname.net> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 05:01:16 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: Text/Plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:11:00 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Tal, weren't you filtering these Mike Bates reposts? Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 07 Sep 1999 10:47:23 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : Bob Stancliff wrote: > > Tal, weren't you filtering these Mike Bates reposts? I unsubbed him - I'll obviously have to take stronger methods. - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 08:44:14 -0700 From: "Jarold Davis" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : The issue has been debated hotly by two sides, it seems, as to whether there is anything left of a character when his POW reaches 0. The whole matter came up when someone asked if a PC killed by DI could somehow be resurrected. Here's my take on it (all IMHO, of course): When POW is consumed, as in Soul Waste, the disease spirit eats the POW, if you will, causing the character to cease to exist - per the disease rules. When all of character's POW is taken in a DI, as per the rules, he is dead, and 'the adventurer's soul will end up at its appointed place on the god plane'. The god takes the POW in exchange for the miracle, apparently leaving his soul intact. Is the POW "consumed", as in Soul Waste? It doesn't seem to be. I believe there is a difference in the end results, as written in the RQ3 rules. I'd say it's a paradox. Sorry for adding more grist for this particular mill. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 17:05:08 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Death by DI : > > Tal, weren't you filtering these Mike Bates reposts? > > I unsubbed him - I'll obviously have to take stronger methods. How is it that only messages from the list get relayed back to the list? That is sooo weird. Bob *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 13:31:56 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Encumbrance in RQ3... Hello everyone. During a session last night, my character was involved in an chaos incident that altered quite a few of his ability scores. While re-calculating everything this morning, I was once again struck by how much ENC is affected by the wearing of armor. My character is SIZ 12, with a STR of 16 and a CON of 13 (a bit above average, in my estimation). This gives him a fatigue score of 29. Now strap on a full suit of chainmail (20 ENC), and his fatigue drops to 9!!! Add in a Battle Axe (1 ENC) and a "standard traveler's pack" (14 ENC) and his fatigue is now -6 even though he is fully rested. Sorry, that just don't make sense. I know I've heard that others on the list have simply dropped the fatigue rules, but I really like having limits to things like combat and exertion based on fatigue. What I would rather see is either a method of reducing the ENC value of equipment in an intelligent manner, or possibly an increase in the amount of fatigue a character starts out with. I don't think a simple ENC/5 or similar system would do justice, so are there any other ideas out there? Rich Allen *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #147 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.