From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #167 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, December 2 1999 Volume 02 : Number 167 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Metric Issues Re: [RQ-RULES] Fine Combing Sandy's Mysticism Rules [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ [RQ-RULES] Battle Board? [RQ-RULES] RE: Christianity in RQ [RQ-RULES] request for Steve Perrin house rules Re: [RQ-RULES] Battle Board? Re: [RQ-RULES] Christianity in RQ Re: [RQ-RULES] Battle Board? [RQ-RULES] Re: Sandy's Mysticism Rules [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Piety in RQ [RQ-RULES] Re: Sandy's Mysticism Rules Re: [RQ-RULES] RE: Christianity in RQ [RQ-RULES] Mysticism RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 09:38:52 -0600 From: Jim Gould Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Metric Issues At 04:53 PM 12/1/99 +0800, you wrote: > > >>>Steve Perrin, whose current version of the RQ rules (prepare for major >changes) are available to anyone who asks...<< > >I'm asking. Please could I see them. > Me three. Please. "Dammit" Jim Gould jgould@io.com http://www.io.com/~jgould http://www.britanniamanor.org Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 18:38:50 +0200 From: Olli Kantola Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Fine Combing Sandy's Mysticism Rules Nikk Effingham wrote: > > Experience gained might help this a little bit, but eventually he's going > > down :( > > Remember, this is only when Focusing the High Mysticism, martial > art styles are dreadful and game destroying just as easily without > them. "To activate a Style and a Focus costs the Style’s MPs, a skill percentile, and whatever MPs are appropriate to that Focus." Yeah, maybe that's true... English isn't my mother tongue... But it would be a neat idea anyway. The burnout I mean :) - -- It's lovely to watch colorful shadows in the planets of the eternal light. -The Master *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 11:53:45 -0500 (EST) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ Sergio : >We must make a distinction here: >"High level", theological, scholar Christianism is one thing; popular >Christianism is a different thing. They require different approaches. And i >suppose that one must chose one of the two is going to be considered >"true". I don't see why, any more than any one religion in Glorantha is considered more true than any others. I prefer a more postmodern approach. >The Christianism of the theologists is almost monotheistic. I don't say >that it was strictelly monotheistic because (at least the Catholics) it >encopassed the belief in the Trinity (Father, Son, and Holly Gost). This >sets it appart from Islamism that's a truelly monotheistic religion. I don't think making simplistic, broad-brush decrees like this helps. As a point of fact, plenty of major islamic sects, such as Shiism and the Dervishes of north africa believe in theological concepts comparable to the trinity. Anyway, what difference does it make in game terms? If none, then why make such arbitrary judgements? >I suppose that this is most of the population. Why not treat sainthood the >way that CoC treats SAN? This is an attribute that changes according to >what a person does: evil deeds lower it, and make the person more subject >to the works of the Devil; good deads raise it, and allow people to resist >the Devil's temptations. Let's call it Faith, something you mention bellow. This sounds a lot like Elan, from the last version of the Stormbringer rules, which has been mentioned here before and is a rather nice mechanic. I'd consider treating faith as more like a skill though. You raise it by using it to help you overcome temptations, convert pagans, galvanise the resolve of other faithful, etc. You can also train it up through performing pilgrimages, going on retreats and such. I imagine Faith being used to get benefits similar to those Michael suggested. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 10:45:25 -0800 From: "DCFitch1" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Battle Board? Anyone use a battle mat while playing? If so, where can I find one? Dan Fitch *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 18:28:05 -0500 From: "Jim Bickmeyer" Subject: [RQ-RULES] RE: Christianity in RQ Michael Cule wrote- >1) Christians are innately resistant to magic (which is after all, the Devil's work). They have a base chance of POW x 5% that any spell cast at them will simply fail to work. This applies to *good* Christians only. Those with unconfessed guilts on their soul will loose the protection. Why should one religion be more resistant to magic than another? I disagree with this. I would say that *good* what ever religion gets full benefits of any rituals they take part in. >2) No magic will work on Holy Ground. None. Particularly saintly Christians will carry around a personal No Magic Zone that drives back the Devil's workings. Then that goes for all religions. Saints and High Holy mucky mucks of other religions would have the same protection. >3) Christians get POW gain rolls for resisting magic as well as for overcoming other people in magic or spirit combat. Since about the only chance a Christian has of offensively using magic or spirit combat is priests doing Excorcism this isn't as big a bonus as you might think. One word, NO. Just limit the magic that is available to non-magic users. Thus only the priests (of all religions, not just Christian) shamans, and sorcerers are casting magic. If you don't like that, then just leave the common man Christian with out magic. Maybe give them access to artifacts and charms that protect and strengthen them. Holy Water, Blessed symbols, personal gear. "Please kind priest, bless my sword and shield so that I might better smote the evil heathens and protect my self from their foul blows." >4) Christians can call on God or the Saints for Divine Intervention. If they fail they loose a point of POW. If they succeed they loose no POW at all unless they roll their POW exactly and are carried off to join the Heavenly Choir. God (because He prefers his followers to have Faith) will tend to answer calls for help in ways that could be perfectly natural. You could just drop Divine Intervention for the common Joe. If you don't and it only cost 1 Power, then I wold call for Divine Intervention often. It is only one power and 1 in 100 that God calls you up. Also, how will you measure a PC being Faithful in the DI answer? I have some free form thoughts on Christian Fantasy gaming. I hope these aren't too far out of the parameters of this list. They are more in the playability area. >From what I have read, Christianity sees the Pagan religions as Evil. They must defend themselves and the faithful from the evil of Pagan religions. Now, the Pagans would see the Christians as invaders. They take away the worshipers of their many religions. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 01 Dec 1999 17:51:08 +0100 From: Alain RAMEAU Subject: [RQ-RULES] request for Steve Perrin house rules >Steve Perrin, whose current version of the RQ rules (prepare for major >changes) are available to anyone who asks... I am interested ! But be careful, I'll will probably nick some ideas to complete my own house rules (available only in French unfortunately, about 60 pages Word 2.0, at htttp://www.btinternet.com/~karamo/rq3bis.htm ) :)) Alain. htttp://www.btinternet.com/~karamo/rq.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 13:04:03 -0800 From: "Timothy Byrd" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Battle Board? Dan Fitch writes: > Anyone use a battle mat while playing? If so, where can I find one? If you want to use a "disposable" one, here is a link for a program that will let you print out rectangular and hex grids of any size. http://perso.easynet.fr/~philimar/graphpapeng.htm - -- Tim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 15:46:52 -0800 From: "Timothy Byrd" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Christianity in RQ There is/was a Computer RPG called Darklands set in Europe in the Dark Ages. Very nice feel. Instead of Chaos, there are the Knights Templar, Baphomet, the witches, dragons, Raubritters, and perhaps Hussites/Bohemian heretics. In Darklands, players have access to two kinds of magic: Alchemy - PCs can learn formulas from town alchemists, universities and some monasteries. Each formula had a set of several ingredients that must be obtained. For each kind of potion there are three formulas of different levels of quality (e.g. Solomon's Eyeburn 25Q, Galen's Eyeburn 35Q, Nicolas Flammel's Eyeburn 45Q). There are "attack" potions, as well as ones to heal or restore fatigue/strength. See the links below for more info. Saints - PCs can learn about saints from monasteries, cathedrals, and the occasional holy hermit. I think there are close to two hundred saints in the game - they are listed in the links below. To invoke a saint requires a certain level of Virtue and Divine Favor, and uses up some DF. Each saint has certain specific abilities. Invoking a saint on that saint's day gives a bonus. Both Virtue and DF can be affected (up or down) by a character's actions. http://www.darklands.net/faq/darklist.html http://www.darklands.net/faq/0.html http://www.darklands.net/faq/3.html http://www.darklands.net/faq/5.html - -- Tim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 01 Dec 1999 20:42:29 -0500 From: Joseph Elric Smith Servant to Arioch Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Battle Board? I use armory hex sheets under plexy glass on the kitchen table, and rumor has it my wife is getting me some of the new dwarven forge stuff for Christmas, Whaa Hoo. Ken Timothy Byrd wrote: > Dan Fitch writes: > > > Anyone use a battle mat while playing? If so, where can I find one? > > If you want to use a "disposable" one, here is a link for a program that > will let you print out rectangular and hex grids of any size. > > http://perso.easynet.fr/~philimar/graphpapeng.htm > > -- Tim > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1999 23:40:02 -0600 (CST) From: Kevin Rose Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Sandy's Mysticism Rules I mentioned that they seemed very complex and difficult to use when I first saw them a few years ago. Sandy's reply was to agree that they were not as coherent and clear as he would like, but did I have any suggestions? After thinking for a while, I didn't. The ideas seem good, but I can't really see a way to keep the core ideas while making it less confusing and simpler. Of course, I have not used the rules, as the culture they model doesn't really interest me right now. If anyone does have some I would assume that they would not be unwelcome. Maybe politely ignored, but not attacked. Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 00:17:11 -0000 From: Sergio Mascarenhas Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ Me: >>And isntead of spells, there are miracles. You must account for this. >>In fact, the deads of the saints were like "institutionalized" miracles, >>something similar to spells. Michael Cule: >No, this is what I wanted to avoid. A miracle is a singular thing by >it's nature. True. That's why I said it's *something similar*, not that it was the same (even if I personaly think that there's not all that big difference between the two things). > Even if it is a repeated effect (like supposed cures at >Lourdes) it is dependent on God and the Saint not on the worshipper. True. But this may be similar to Divine spells in RQ: these are all dependent on the God, but correspond to a precise process and outcome. Yet I agree with you that a system for Christian miracles should be less tidy than Divine magic in RQ. >You can ask but you can't expect always to get. Which is why the DI > bonus but no spells. Well, That's the way I play RQ. When the worshiper wants to use a divine spell, it's not enough to have the spell. If the way he behaves is not in accordance to the strictures of the cult, the god may deny is support. This is a rolesy thing, not something that comes in the rules. In fact, there are several possibilites you can explore, and these possibilites are very dependent on the *flavor* or church of Christianism you adopt. Is it the Ortodox chuch? Roman Catolic? Anglicanism? Luteranism? This is important because it shapes the way you design rules. For instance, does a person have a personal link with god, or does it require the intervention of a priest? Are Saints part of the faith? Dito for religious relics and images? Is the link with God based on charisma? What's the role of tradition and religious ceremonial? And of the church's hierarchy? Sergio *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:21:56 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: Piety in RQ >If the way he behaves is not in accordance to the >strictures of the cult, the god may deny is support. This >is a rolesy thing, not something that comes in the rules. Indeed, this is contrary to some interpretations of Gloranthan magic. Once you have learned a spell, the god can't stop it working on an ad-hoc basis. Maybe the priests could do something like excomminucate you, or there may be less drastic methods of denying a cultist access to their magic, but (IMO) the god can't just say "You killed a pig this morning, so your Earthpower spell won't work". YGMV. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 18:32:10 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Sandy's Mysticism Rules >If anyone does have some I would assume that they would not be unwelcome. Maybe politely ignored, but not attacked.< It occurs to me that this might be a polite way of saying to me "Hey watch your mouth, smart@r$e." I would like to point out that it was never my intention to simply rag on Sandy's rules dismissively. They're full of great ideas and are tackling a complex subject. I just found them too unwieldy. I didn't mean to just dismiss them. If my tone or words offended anyone, Sandy in particular, I apologise without reserve. I only wished to participate. Matt B. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 12:57:21 +0000 From: Michael Cule Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] RE: Christianity in RQ In message <000e01bf3b8a$8f62b680$1ceb4bcf@jfb>, Jim Bickmeyer writes > >Why should one religion be more resistant to magic than another? I disagree >with this. I would say that *good* what ever religion gets full benefits of >any rituals they take part in. Well, my idea was that Christians don't get all the nice and fairly reliable magics that other religions do. Just the resistance bonus and other effects. - -- Michael Cule *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 10:27:31 -0500 From: Frederic Moulin Subject: [RQ-RULES] Mysticism Greetings everyone, I have also looked at Sandy's mystic rules, and while I like the idea of a more "exotic" system of magic for the Kralorean, I don't like the (almost regular ;-) addition by Sandy of new attributes. I may be a boring GM, but I think the RQ character sheet/rules are complicated and extensive enough that we can with minor adjustment make any kind of magic work within the current system. My take on mysticism is just to drop the mysticism value, makes it a magical skill similar to the sorcery skills. The low mysticism then just requires a mysticism roll, and then the standard 5%/MP spend... with the possible limite of not increasing the skill by more than one's mysticism skill. For the high Mysticism, I would change the mysticism cost into loss of a characteristic... the most classical being of course POW to keep it in lign with the other components of the magic system... but if one wanted a more "exotic" feeling, why not sacrifice HP or CON??? I know, that WILL make your players scream... but for me it conveys better the feelings of "mind over flesh" and the vision of emaciated oriental monks or stigmata associated with intense mysticism. Also... it may help balancing a little the powers of a mystical fighter... sure he/she may have adopted her sword, sure she may be using the centipede style... but with approximately 4-5 general HP or CON less than originally... any wound is likely to incapacitate him/her quickly. It would also make sure that any PC chosing mysticism does give carefull considerations to the selection of the adopted skills and work regularly on his/her CON. And if one wanted to use mysticism to modify MP/HP/FP of someone else, just have them consume HP... taking the wounds or fatigue of others upon themselves. Now for creating monsters NPC like Sandy loves, we certainly have enchantements that can enhance CON and HP... so one could have all the goodies and still a significant reserve of HP ;-) Just my two cents... I have'nt tried the original rules neither their variations with players yet. Frederic Dr. Frederic Moulin, D.V.M, Ph.D. Chemical Industry Institute of Toxicology Six Davis Drive, P.O. Box 12137 Research Triangle Park, NC, 27709-2137 Tel: 919-558-1391 Fax: 919-558-1300 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #167 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.