From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #178 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, December 30 1999 Volume 02 : Number 178 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ [RQ-RULES] Re: Getting back to useful stuff. Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Getting back to useful stuff. Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Getting back to useful stuff. [RQ-RULES] A Bit of Fun Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Getting back to useful stuff. [RQ-RULES] Ancient atheists [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 21:23:48 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ Matthew Barron wrote: > > Tal's request for actual work ups is probably thed most constructive > thing that's been said in this thread for days/weeks. It was also a perhaps too-shrouded call for a return to the supposed purpose of this list. (i.e. rules discourse, writeups, and information exchange). I'm reading Kurtz' _The Bastard Prince_ at the moment - maybe tomorrow I'll get up the gumption to do a writeup on Saint Camber (technically a Deryni saint, but he's a part of the Christian backdrop of Saints in Kurtz's literary world). As someone on another of the lists I'm on pointed out, the last week or so has been something of a creative slump for alot of people.... myself included. :) - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:50:03 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Getting back to useful stuff. In deference to those who have been here before me.. From memory - 'cause I'm at work - the Order of the White Rose: The Tale of Bradamante of the White Rose Bradamante was a beautiful young girl who grew up in a Pentapoline village, the daughter of a local healer. She was gentle natured and kind. One day the soldiers of the local nobleman came through her village on their way to do battle with Dominion forces. Some of these soldiers noticed Bradamante doing her chores and they stopped to talk to her. They were coarse men, as soldiers often are, and they made lewd suggestions to her. Bradamante was still a virgin and she wanted nothing to do with these men. Finally they were called back to the march and Bradamante soon forgot about them. Some days later, those men who had marched to the battle were defeated and the Dominion took control of Bradamante's village, because it was on the border of Trothkalmet lands. The defeated soldiers took to banditry and hid from Dominion soldiers in nearby woods. In a later season, the bandits came upon Bradamante as she was collecting herbs for her father's healings. They confronted her and made clear that they planned to rape her. Bradamante fled, screaming with fear and quickly became lost. She finally hid under a wild rose bush, tearing her skin on the thorns as she pushed herself further in. The bandits soon found her however and dragged her from her hiding place. They beat her for running from them and raped her many times. Bradamante's screams had been heard by some Dominion soldiers patrolling the woods and they came to investigate. When they found the bandits in the midst of their crime they quickly disarmed them and held them at sword point. Then the soldiers saw that Bradamante was lying naked on the ground and they too raped her and then, leading the bandits away, they left her for dead. As Bradamante lay wounded and violated on the ground she was found by her father. He took her home and mended her wounded body. But her wounded spirit was beyond his ability to heal. Bradamante clothed herself in a cloak all day and all night, with the hood always drawn up. She fashioned a mask for herself and she refused to let any man look upon her again. Daily she would walk into the woods to the place where she had been raped and there before the rose bush she would weep for her violation and the wound in her heart that would not heal. One morning, as she knelt on the ground before the rose bush and wept angry tears, there was a light about her and a voice said "Your cries have been heard." She looked up and saw a messenger, glowing white and adorned in armour. He stood within the rose bush and all about him on the branches rose blooms were growing, white rose blooms. The messenger said to her "Your tears and your blood have been taken to these blooms, to cleanse them. For the Creator has seen your anguish and he has appointed the rose to you as your sign, for in his eyes you are purified. I am to teach you the Way of the White Rose, for vengeance will be delivered into your hand. The messenger took Bradamante into the woods and there she lived for a year learning battle at his instruction. When she emerged after a year she came armed and armoured and she no longer wore her mask. She came forth with the weapons of the White Rose way, the Thorns, the Rosewood Staff and the Scourge, for vengeance. With these weapons, and the magic of the White Rose, she would avenge herself. In the days and seasons that followed Bradamante hunted down and slew every man, bandit and soldier, who had been present that day. Some she slew in their homes. Others she hunted and bound and dragged to the public square where they confessed their crimes before she executed them. Wherever they were slain a white rose bush grew up from the ground. The last grew by the well in the Old City in Trothkalmet. It still grows there and the city folk brew healing salves from its petals, but its thorns are poisonous to any man who touches them. Other women who had been violated came to Bradamante seeking justice. She taught them the Way which she had been shown and so was the Order of the White Rose begun. When at last Bradamante died she was ordained by the Creator as Patron Saint of the White Rose and she was given guardianship of the Order. She was buried in the woods and she was mourned a maid, unsullied and pure. The Order of the White Rose In my campaign cults do not exist as such and the vast majority of the population never progress beyond the level of worshipper(Lay member). Novices (Initiates): INovices worship the Creator according to the Way of the White Rose - the details are held in secret and no non member has ever known them. Novice status is open only to women. The Oath: Novices make an oath of commitment - sacrifice 1 POW and adopt the traits Vengeful, Just, Chaste and the passion Defend/Avenge Women (from men esp.) Novices dwell on temple/abbey grounds at least 70% of the time and are expected to devote that time to religious duties. All of the skills of the order are taught free to 50%. When Novices have completed all this training they may leave with the blessing of the order Duties: Novices tend temples, devote themselves to the teachings of the Order and frequently assist the Thorns in carrying out their missions. Prayer & Devotion: For every full season which a Novice spends in the temple/abbey they may make one exp. check on each of the Order's virtues - this check is automatically successful. Gifts: Devout members of the Order can receive gifts and geas' as reward for their devotion. In essence, whenever a member of the Order makes a critical trait roll they may at the next worship ceremony accept a gift and its appropriate geas. Skills:Thorn(sai) RH & LH, Staff, Scourge(Whip), Trailing, Stealth, Plant Lore, Intimidate, Physician. Folk Magic: Protection 2, Bladesharp 2, Fanaticism, Heal 2. Divine Magic: Except in extreme cases Divine magic is unavailable to Novices. (GM discretion) RoseSisters(Priests) Req'm'ts: To become a RoseSister a Novice must have at least 75% in each of the virues of the Order. Her commitment must be known to the other RoseSisters of the temple/abbey she is a member of. She must have mastered at least two of Plant Lore, Physician, Intimidate or Staff. Duties:Teach the Novices, maintain the temple as a place of shelter for women, collect intelligence on rapists/criminals, support the Thorns. Divine magic: RoseSisters have access to all common divine plus Chameleon, Tanglethicket Thorns: The Thorns are the avenging arm of the Order. They carry out all of the external duties. They are zealots who typically go about masked and cloaked. They avenge female victims of crime, typically by execution but often also by humiliation and extracting confessions. Req'm'ts: To become a Thorn a Novice must have 75% in all the virtues of the Order, 90%+ in Thorn RH & LH, Scourge, Intimidate, Trailing and Stealth. A candidate must also have received at least two gifts and geas'. Duties: Thorns hunt down and slay rapists, they avenge crimes against women - often humiliating the criminal. Divine Magic: Shield, Silence, Chameleon, True Thorn(sai), Scourge of Vengeance. Thorns also frequently make use of the seeds from Tanglethicket spells cast by RoseSisters. Skills: Thorns have access to the Martial Art, the Way of the White Rose. This Martial Art includes a variety of special techniques including trips, weapon techniques and some combinations(multiple strikes) Some typical gifts: Gift Geas 90% in ordained weapon Always go masked in public. +6 APP Never Marry (Novices who complete their training may marry; Thorns and RoseSisters may not and so never receive this gift/geas) Ok - so that's a monotheistic order in my campaign, well some of it. It's all off the top of my head since I'm at work. One of the PC's in my campaign has recently joined this order and is a particularly favoured Novice. I'd be interested in any opinions. Additionally - One of the uses I allow for Tanglethicket seeds is this. In combat the seed is thrown to the ground at the feet of the target. The tanglethicket then grows up around them. They become imprisoned in a custom fitting prison which is agony and potentially fatal to try to escape from. Frequently White Rose Thorns use this as a method of vengeance. They entrap the target and then leave them there to starve to death. Occasionally they check to make sure no one tries to bust 'em out. A fitting end to a rapist, I think. Matt B. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 23:56:16 EST From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Getting back to useful stuff. I have a question concerning the Jolanti. Now before anyone says that i should go to the Glorantha list with it, let me say that it is a firmly Rulesy question: The stats given for them in the AH Glorantha Bestiary mention the "average" Jolanti, but fails to mention how _tall_ one of these things is actually _supposed_ to be. Help? Ken *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 00:07:06 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Getting back to useful stuff. Matthew Barron wrote: > > In deference to those who have been here before me.. No deference is necessary. > Ok - so that's a monotheistic order in my campaign, well some of it. > It's all off the top of my head since I'm at work. For 'off the top of your head', it's still damn good. I liked this alot. > One of the uses I allow for Tanglethicket seeds is this. In combat the > seed is thrown to the ground at the feet of the target. The tanglethicket > then grows up around them. They become imprisoned in a custom fitting > prison which is agony and potentially fatal to try to escape from. > Frequently White Rose Thorns use this as a method of vengeance. They entrap > the target and then leave them there to starve to death. Occasionally they > check to make sure no one tries to bust 'em out. A fitting end to a rapist, > I think. Evil. I like. :) - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 15:11:13 +0800 From: "Matthew Barron" Subject: [RQ-RULES] A Bit of Fun And now for something completely different. Drunken Style Martial Arts. Knowledge 00% Hard(very) This Martial Art skill is used just like any other MA. In my campaign MA's provide groups of techniques to use unarmed rather than modifying punch and kick attacks/parries - a la brawling skill. If using conventional MA rules then Drunken Style does not double the users damage from unarmed combat attacks. It does give the 6 AP with a fist parry. On a Special roll - 2 extra successes using Steve Perrin's rules - the user of Drunken style rolls on the fumble table and applies the effects to the target of his attacks. That is if he rolls lose next attack then his opponent loses their next attack. If he rolls hit nearest friend then the enemy hits nearest friend with their weapon - on the very next SR. This effect interupts any statements of intent on the enemy's part - their just caught up in the chaos which Drunken Style causes. The idea is to simulate the chaotic and quite comic sort of fighting that goes on in drunken style movies - Jackie Chan's being the most famous. This is supposed to be a way for the GM to really ham it up. If the roll is fall over then have the character fall over because the drunken stylist pulled his trews down around his ankles. Cries of "Armour doesn't do that." or "That's silly." etc. should be dismissed out of hand. I haven't play tested this yet but I'm going to spring it on the party next session. See how they go when the drunk in the corner starts giving them lip. Matt B. - tongue firmly in cheek *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 02:12:39 EST From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Getting back to useful stuff. In a message dated 12/29/1999 9:04:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, MurfNMurf@aol.com writes: << The stats given for them in the AH Glorantha Bestiary mention the "average" Jolanti, but fails to mention how _tall_ one of these things is actually _supposed_ to be. Help? >> Given that the Jolanti were referred to as the "Man and a Half" tribe, you can figure that their average height was about 99", or 8' 3". Truly large members of the tribe extend up to as much as 9 1/2 feet, but these are the Shaquile O'Neill's of the tribe. RQ SIZ, of course, tends to measure mass, not height, and we never did (and I never have) come up with a truly satisfactory conversion system. I was recently trying to convert a Fantasy Hero giant PC into a character for my current campaign, and the numbers came out fairly horrendous. Steve Perrin, who suggests that you just say, "they're big." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 05:05:31 -0500 From: Andrew Barton Subject: [RQ-RULES] Ancient atheists > However actualy stopping believing that god, or gods of any kind exist was unheard of. Socrates was condemned to death on a charge of denying the existence of the gods. Andrew *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 08:14:57 -0500 (EST) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Christianity in RQ Matthew Barron >Jewish Joke: How many Christians does it take to change a light bulb? >Answer:(holding up three fingers)One. >The notion of the Trinity is probably the fundamental. This is a notion which >Christians have virtually never relinquished and which Jews and Moslems cannot abide. And yet qabalism is based on the idea that it is possible to describe distinct attributes and manifestations of god. The forms in which god appears to Moses and Elijah are considered to be different forms god has taken. Several Jewish self-styled prophets have claimed to be manifestations of god and at different times have commanded considerable followings in Europe and the Middle east. Many Shiia moslems believe in a 'hidden mullah' who lives in a secret cave in the foothills of Iran and speaks with the authority of god. Even in Christianity, the meaning of the trinity is interpreted differently by different churches. The coptic church sees the trinity as being purely alegorical, denying any seperateness between the three aspects of god. Bread sweeping statements like 'christians believe X and moslems believe Y' are very likely to miss the mark. You can often only say that some christians believe X and some moslems believe Y. >Do the worshippers of West King Wind recognise an Orlanthi Thane from Sartar as >a strange brother or as a heretic whose thought, race and memeory should be >eradicated from history. How can someone who belongs to a completely different religion be called a heretic? I'm not saying anything whatever about their acceptance or otherwise of each other, that's totaly beside the point I was making. >Pantheism implies a level of mutual acceptance that is not found in the medieval >European forms of monotheism. The characteristic religious attitudes of this era >led to brutal and bloody wars and to two of the most evil words in history - >inquisition and pogrom. If God backs any one group over another in this world then >it would certainly be fundamentally significant in any campaign I ran. Fair enough. It is possible to run a game on the assumption that one specific sect is correct and all their suspicions and allegations against other sects and religions are true - moslems are abominable devil worshipers, Jews sacrifice babies, etc. But you don't _have_ to run the game that way. >I freely confess to being dreadfully poorly informed about Malkionism - most of my >Glorantha Lore dates from RQ2. Fair enough. >But the impression that I had was that Malkionism provides forms of sorcery, not >divine magic, which renders the presence of a divine being somewhat moot. Malkioni believe that the Invisible God created the world to embody a set of physical and moral laws, in acordance with His nature. Sorcery is the process of applying those physical and moral laws in order to excercise rightfull dominion over nature, as true disciples of the Invisible God. Malkioni take the fact that their magic is effective as proof of the validity of those laws, and hence proof of their religious doctrine. >Malkionism is monotheistic in a world which is utterly dominated by pantheistic >cultures and religious structures - this is an experience which medieval monotheism >never even comes close to. Malkionism is the pre-eminent religious system in one third of Genertela. Most of that region is sealed off by huge mountain ranges, within which Malkionism dominates and only a few primitive theistic and animist tribes cling on up in the highlands. I'd seriously argue with the characterisation of the rest of Glorantha as being theist too. There are plenty of Kralorelans, East Islanders and Pamaltelans who'd be surprised to hear it. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V2 #178 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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