From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #5 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Saturday, January 8 2000 Volume 03 : Number 005 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods RE: [RQ-RULES] Of gods and mortals Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods [RQ-RULES] Divine Magic & the gods [RQ-RULES] Re: True Stone [RQ-RULES] DMD - Raxivort for RQ/Greyhawk RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: True Stone RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: True Stone RE: [RQ-RULES] True Stone Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 12:56:36 -0500 (EST) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Matthew Barron >Example: Trogar and Sogar are brothers and both intiates of Orlanth. >Like good initiates they both get together on windsday and pray to >Orlanth, telling about their recent exploiots fighting evil chaotic >broos. Why would Orlanth be even remotely interested in such mundaneties? I don't imagine Orlanthi pray in this way. Usualy, prayers are in the form of appeals for aid, or preotection from disaster. You make Orlanth sound like a school master in a school for delinquent children. I don't think he gives a toss about these things. I think that to gain Orlanthi magic you must demonstrate Orlanthi virtues. Certainly this is true of heroquesting and I think it's relevent to sacrificing for divine magic and successful worship ceremonies too. Either you have these virtues, or you do not. It's not a case of pulling the wool over anyone's eyes. If you do not believe in the precepts of your faith, on which your magical powers are based, your magic will simply stop working. The worshiper's faith is actualy relevent, IMHO. If you have no faith, how can you expect to gain power? Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 10:58:06 -0700 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Of gods and mortals > Kingship confers the power to read minds then? No, where did I say that? But kings (and gods) do not have to be stupid! If the king (or god) reads the signs, see the consequences, etc. of an abuse of the power bestowed by the king (or god) then why wouldn't the king (or god) do something about it? And the gods should have much more power/knowledge than mere mortal kings. Back to gods: the day-to-day life of the majority of worshippers is left to the god's priesthood to deal with, that's what priests are for, after all. This doesn't have to mean the god doesn't actually know every detail of his worshippers life, that's beside the point. But, if a follower of one god uses a spell granted by that god to harm the god's religion, or aid one of the god's enemies, then the god should know about it, either "instinctively" or through contact with the priesthood. The god would then do domething about it, or risk loosing status amoung the other gods, or even power through the loss of followers, etc. depending on the severity of the abuse and how much everyone else know about it. This, by the way, has absolutely no bearing on what may or may not be true in real life. We're talking about a fantasy game here. Traditional fantasy, in my experience, has gods that take active roles in the worlds they hold sway over. Read just about any greek epic and you'll see the gods affecting mortal life directly all over the place. Just my opinion here, but who the hell wants to model real life?? Especially real life religion! In fact, if you are allowing the use of magic as it pertains to religion, then you cannot possibly be modeling real life, so I think it's a bad idea to even try. YMMV. Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 11:26:38 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods Simon Hibbs: >The worshiper's faith is actualy relevent, IMHO. If you have >no faith, how can you expect to gain power? In this scenario an illuminate would never be able to sacrifice for spells from multiple, possibly opposing, cults. For example: Chuck is an illuminate and member of Storm Bull and Krasht. Under your theory none of his divine magic should function, since he really does not faith in ether cult. Leon Kirshtein www.geocities.com/leonbk/ "No good deed shall go unpunished." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 15:02:58 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Divine Magic & the gods > I would tend to emphasises the personal relationship between a god and > it's powers more. Blowing winds and peals of thunder aren't just powers > Orlanth wields, they are part of Orlanth's substance and nature. The elemental gods have physical substance within the world, but it is uncontrolled or sub-consciously controlled. It is not directed unless the god's attention is drawn by the calls of worshippers. The physical effects are manifestations of runic power, but are not magic. Magic is a supra-normal change in the physical that is directed by will. When a worshipper calls for magic, it attracts the god's attention long enough to change the nature of the world through conscious control. > I don't think illumination has anything much to do with ties > to law and chaos. Illuminates can be sorcerers, who's magic > relies on adherance to the principles of Cosmic Law, and > they can be chaotics. The kind of link I refer to isn't magical and has no effect on the nature of the magic one can cast. It is more a philosophic preconception about the nature of the world and one's place within it. Fundamental assumptions and guilt drive most people to live within the precepts of their gods. It is almost a fundamental principle of Glorantha that 'Good' gods and beings defend and support the continuance of the world, created by Cosmic Law, and that 'Chaotic/Evil' gods and beings attack and weaken the cohesion of the world knowing that this can or will return it to Primal Chaos. It is these beliefs, including the belief that you can be caught if you do wrong by your god, that allows betrayal or opposition to be detected. When Illumination breaks these fundamental preconceptions guilt goes away and the gods no longer have power over the worshipper, but they cannot realize or detect that this has happened. It is the sudden loss of a philosophical foundation that drive so many into some insanity. All magic forms require adherence to Cosmic Laws, even Chaotic, Draconic, and Mystic magics. The rules clearly show that Chaos must accept some subjugation to physical Law before it can enter the world. This does not mean that magic is tied to the Law rune (obviously false, even for sorcery), only that magic cannot violate basic laws of existence. Sorcery and Spirit magic are very similar in the sense that both use magic energy to draw runic power directly into the world from the god plane without help from the gods. The main difference is that spirit magicians consider their magic a gift that must take one form and cannot be different, while sorcerers view their magic as a tool that can be molded into new forms by Will. Mystic 'magic' is also an expression of Will which changes some portion of the world... often the mystic's body. Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2000 16:20:43 -0500 From: "Weihe, David" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: True Stone > From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Cantabrana_Gonz=E1lez?=" > I have a doubt that perhaps will be produced by a translate error. Elder > secrets says that people figth wars for a piece of True Stone but the True > Stone is like a spell matrix but worse, cos you need to reload it in every > use (sacrificing POW) instead praying. So is better a spell matrix than a > True Stone. Isn't it? A full True Stone can be just like an ordinary spell matrix, except that most have at least a full Rune Lord's or Priest's load of Divine Magic, rather than just one or a few spells, like most matrices. Further, many are loaded with the equivalent of an entire temple's load of Divine Magic. Just to make things more fun, I don't know that one can add user conditions to a True Stone, so if I capture a True Stone filled by an Orlanthi temple I can cast the magic no matter who I am, although refilling it may be a problem. A blank True Stone is potentially more valuable, except that only an Initiate with no Divine Magic can be trusted to handle it before the Filling Ritual starts. An empty but set True Stone is not worth a war, but if someone says that it is empty, can you believe them? It is certainly worth lying about, after all. What isn't in the rules, but must be, in practice, is that there *is* a limit on how much magic a small True Stone can hold, so that it might not be worth launching the Hero Wars over a flake smaller than my fingernail trimmings. OTOH, wars have a way of escalating. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 22:14:23 -0500 From: Tal Meta Subject: [RQ-RULES] DMD - Raxivort for RQ/Greyhawk the Goblin Gods RAXIVORT Runes: Chaos, Fire, Beast Known as the Patron of Xvarts, Packmaster of Rats, and the Night Flutterer, this ascended demonling is the deity of choice for xvarts. Cult in the World While none know for certain which demon prince originally created the xvarts as servants, it is known that the demon prince Graz'zt employed multitudes of them in the mines that riddle one of his planes. In return for some special service, Graz'zt raised the xvart known as Raxivort above that of all his fellows, and set him over not only his fellows, but placed him in ultimate charge of all of that prince's slaves. Cunning in the extreme, Raxivort bided his time over millenia, all the while playing the role of the devoted and loyal Master of Slaves. When his master was summoned to the Middle Realms and bound there, he took that as his signal, and seized the plane for himself. When his master returned, however, things did not go as well as Raxivort might have hoped. Though no other demon princes would come to his aid, Graz'zt was easily more powerful and intelligent than Raxivort, and though the battle between them stretched into months, none doubted who would eventually be the victor. Raxivort was eventually forced to flee, but only after plundering the vaults beneath Graz'zt's palace, stealing a wealth of artifacts and freeing the demon princess Z'zrami. As payment for her release, she ceded her access to the rune of Fire to Raxivort, as well as agreeing to be his concubine for 1000 years. Z'zrami soon bore twin children, but Raxivort, certain that they were the product of her union with Graz'zt and not him, slew and devoured them both. From the first child he strengthened his association with rats, and from the second with giant bats (mobats, specifically). But they were his sons, and with her dying breath, Z'zrami cursed him. As a result of her curse, Raxivort was to burn; his very skin was to burn with a blue flame that would spread to everything he touched or held dear. But Raxivort outmaneuvered her in the end, and with his command of the Rune of Fire, managed to confine the burning to his left hand. Raxivort's High Holy Day is the 1st of Wealsun, and regular services are generally held on the first day of each month. Shrines devoted to this deity are typically found in large caves, where mobats and rats lair. The stone altar devoted to Raxivort resembles a knurled (left) fist, and will sometimes seem to flicker with a blue-white radiance similar to that of the god's left hand. Shamans of Raxivort wear blue chainmail polished to a fine sheen, and sometimes silken robes of a complimenting color if such fabric can be obtained. Lay Membership Requirements: All xvarts are considered to be lay members of this cult at birth. Skills taught include Climb, Dodge, Jump, Maneuver, Throw, Speak Languages, Lores (Demon, Spirit, Underworld, World, Xvart), Conceal, Devise, Sleight, Listen, Scan, Search, Track, Ambush, Sneak, Ceremony, falchion attack/parry, and thrown dagger attack. Initiate Membership Requirements: Standard. Spirit Magic: Most spirit magic is available from the Shaman/Priests of this cult. Shaman/Priesthood Requirements: Standard for shamans. Raxivort's shamans are the spiritual center of their people, speaking to and for their deity as he continually plots to gain more power for himself and his people. Raxivort (and by extension, his shamans) are always interested in improving the lot of himself and his people. This can a variety of forms, from simply sprucing up the cave you have to killing a tribe of celbits and taking theirs. Though many folk mistake the xvarts for some mediary stage between jebli and celbits, they are neither, and they cheerfully make war on either or both as the opportunity presents itself. Virtues for the cult are Deceitful, Pragmatic, Prudent, and Warlike. Common Divine Magic: Call Followers, Command Cult Spirit, Divination, Enchant Holy Symbol, Excommunication, Group Casting, Initiate, Sanctify, Spellteaching, Warding, Worship. Special Divine Magic: Command (Mobats, Rats, Salamanders), Firespear, Shield of Fire, Spittle, Summon (Mobats, Rats, Salamanders). Shamanic Taboos Runic Affinities Only. Associated Gods None - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 04:53:37 +0100 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Cantabrana_Gonz=E1lez?=" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: True Stone >Just to make things more fun, I don't know that one can add user >conditions to a True Stone, so if I capture a True Stone filled by an >Orlanthi temple I can cast the magic no matter who I am, although >refilling it may be a problem. Yes, I know, then where is the adventaje of a True Stone versus a Spell Matrix, and why is too high value. I prefer a 5 points Spell Matrix (that I can protect with conditions and reload after use) than a 10 points True Stone. German *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 07 Jan 2000 21:07:43 PST From: "Leon Kirshtein" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Re: True Stone Yes, I know, then where is the adventaje of a True Stone versus a Spell Matrix, and why is too high value. I prefer a 5 points Spell Matrix (that I can protect with conditions and reload after use) than a 10 points True Stone. It is not a matter of preference. Just think about a piece of stone which may hold 100 pts of Divine Magic. There is really no limit as to how much it can hold. The only real limitation is how many people can touch it at the same time. I played in one game there we had a Rune Lord not sacrifice for any Divine magic just so he could carry a blank true stone with out accidentily setting it. When it was finally filled it had 87pt of magic from 4 different cults. Match that with a matrix. Leon Kirshtein www.geocities.com/leonbk/ "No good deed shall go unpunished." ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 06:06:40 +0100 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Cantabrana_Gonz=E1lez?=" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] True Stone > Under early rules, I believe, a blank Truestone was impressed with spells >by taking them from the mind of the person(s) who touched it first. These >spells were stripped from the mind of the person(s), but could be cast >from the Truestone. Once cast, they were lost, but the stone was now >impressed with those spells and could be recharged by a priest with those >spells. The priest would not lose those spells this time, but they would >not recover until the spells were cast from the stone. So, is very best a Matrix spell with a higher first lost of POW but that only need a pray to reuse the spell. isn't it? German *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 00:48:23 EST From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Aztecs Hey gang, I've read the occasional cryptic mention of here and there on the internet of an Aztec campaign for RQ. Anyone have any more information on this? -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #5 *********************************** *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.