From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #15 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, January 27 2000 Volume 03 : Number 015 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS RE: [RQ-RULES] Miniatures (Non RQ question) Re: [RQ-RULES] Miniatures (Non RQ question) Re: [RQ-RULES] Miniatures (Non RQ question) RE: [RQ-RULES] Miniatures (Non RQ question) SV: [RQ-RULES] Spell Suggestion - Ishiran spells [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods [RQ-RULES] illumination and the nature of Glorantha RE: [RQ-RULES] illumination and the nature of Glorantha RE: [RQ-RULES] illumination and the nature of Glorantha [RQ-RULES] RuneQuest and Tolkien MiddleEarth RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:47:36 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Miniatures (Non RQ question) I don't know about lead figures, but lead type for typesetting is made from a lead-antimony alloy, which has the peculier property (for a metal) of expanding just before it finishes solidifying, so you get nice sharp edges. I don't think lead figures use the same alloy, though, I think they have less lead. You used to be able to buy lead figure kits, with moulds and dishes and lumps of metal, they were called "Prince August", I think. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:32:33 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Miniatures (Non RQ question) Lead figures are practically illegal in America now. You are still allowed to own them, but selling them might get you in trouble. You may be able to make them for personal use, but that might simply trigger air pollution laws. I don't have enough hard info though, so you can search the web. Most manufacturers have been forced to switch to a pewter alloy which raises the cost and is harder to do right. Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 09:36:06 EST From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Miniatures (Non RQ question) In a message dated 1/24/2000 1:57:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, philip.hibbs@tnt.co.uk writes: << I don't know about lead figures, but lead type for typesetting is made from a lead-antimony alloy, which has the peculier property (for a metal) of expanding just before it finishes solidifying, so you get nice sharp edges. I don't think lead figures use the same alloy, though, I think they have less lead. You used to be able to buy lead figure kits, with moulds and dishes and lumps of metal, they were called "Prince August", I think. >> About ten years ago there was a big scare in the United States about small children swallowing figures and being poisoned by the lead (and perhaps something about the lead getting on the bodies of adults and poisoning them, as well), so now most major manufacturers use a variation on pewter, which is not as malleable and workable, but does hold a edge a bit better. Oh yes, it's also more expensive. Steve Perrin, a retailer caught in the middle of that particular crisis. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 14:48:03 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Miniatures (Non RQ question) One of my friends used to make lead shoggoth figures for his Cthulhu games by pouring moulten lead into cold water - the results were fantastic, every one was different, even from game session to the next. Not that we met that many shoggoths, that is, I think he mainly did it to scare us. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Jan 2000 19:48:29 +0100 From: "Erik Sieurin" Subject: SV: [RQ-RULES] Spell Suggestion - Ishiran spells Tal: > Erik Sieurin wrote: > > > > Armaments of Shamril > > Sorcery spell, Ishiran College of Sorcery > > ritual Summoning, touch, active > > Was wondering why you made this a Summoning, since it seems it would > work fine as a normal sorcery spell?? Reason the First: because the Shamril-worshipping sorcerers of Ishira are sort of sorcerous shamans, they have spells which mimic shamantic abilities. I like that these spells are not that more efficient than such abilities. IIRC a shaman has to discorporate to perform an exorcism unless he is not using a spirit to do it (eg a Healing Spirit kicking Disease Spirit butt); if not, that's how I have played it. Ergo, since shamans have to use ritual (it takes time) to use a special ability, these sorcerers have to use ritual as well. Reason the Second: for cultural reasons, most Ishiran sorcery is ritual. Since Ishiran sorcerers have access to Rune Magic as well, they can do some heavy-hitting with short notice, but that is not possible with most of their sorcery. Reason the Third: mythically, the spell _is_ literally summoning a manifestation of the underworld-deity Shamril. Thus Summoning, not Ceremony. Erik Sieurin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 04:40:01 -0500 (EST) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Divine Magic & the gods (For some reason this hasn't showed up in the list, so I'm resending) Bob : > >>>This works because an illuminate doesn't > >>> necessarily see any incompatibility between > >>> Orlanthi and Vivamorti religious beliefs. > I would consider this to be a form of insanity, since use of >chaotic magics will still weaken the fabric of the world. Illumination >does not change the cosmic laws, it only releases ones' dependence upon >them. I think illuminates believe that the 'fabric of the world' is merely an illusion, a veil of tears, as do eastern mystics. For them, the fabric of the world is irrelevent to their ultimate goal of transcendence. Thus whether the 'fabric' is weakened or not not necesserily of any great consequence. They may I suppose choose to preserve it for the benefit of those unable to transcend it, perhaps out of pity or sentimentality, but they don't necesserily feel it as a moral imperative. After all, the petty notion of 'self' maintained by those blinded by attachment to the material world is a fantasy anyway. Thus chaos is nolonger necesserily an issue. The only problem is that chaos might destroy the world before you transcend it. On the other hand, embracing chaos may actualy assist your attempts as transcendence. It realy is a whole different ball game. >> >......How does a deity cope with >> > someone with amoral personality disorder? > This person is already insane, and probably illuminated. If >they are obvious about their amoral tendencies, they will probably be >hunted down like rabid dogs. Society always tries to defend >Civilization from predators. I don't think there is a way of categorizing sanity in a consisytent way for illuminates and theists. An illuminate may appear totaly insane to a theist and yet be acting in a perfectly sane way according to her worldview. It is possible for someone who becomes illuminated to becoem insane according to both worldvies though, but I don't think amorality is necesserily insane from an illuminated perspective. e.g. Tantrism. > > I gotta believe a deity can keep better track of > > their followers than whether or not they feel guilty. > The compromise gives up this awareness for the sake of the >continuance of >the world. The gods simply _cannot_ pay attention to events within time >until, or unless, they are called to do so. Even then, the gods do not >have the omni-presence to know what is happening everywhere at all >times. I didn't mean to cause anyone to fixate on the importance of personal feelings of guilt. Guilt in a cosmic sense implies a universal moral order - i.e. the compromise. Illuminates don't believe* in universal morality, or at least don't have to, and so guilt is meaningless. How can you be guilty of a crime if there are no laws? (* Know there is no such thing as) To put it another way - Keeping track of followers requires a certain kind of magical link between deity and follower. Illuminates have a different kind of link that works according to different rules. I like to think of it as connecting with the deity at a different level of conciousness. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 10:59:05 -0500 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: [RQ-RULES] illumination and the nature of Glorantha > I think illuminates believe that the 'fabric of the world' is merely > an illusion, a veil of tears, as do eastern mystics. For them, the > fabric of the world is irrelevent to their ultimate goal of > transcendence. Thus whether the 'fabric' is weakened or not not > necesserily of any great consequence. They may I suppose choose to > preserve it for the benefit of those unable to transcend it, perhaps out > of pity or sentimentality, but they don't necesserily feel it as a moral > imperative. The vast majority of illuminates have never heard of 'transcendence' since it is an advanced concept and is also culturally restricted to certain parts of the world. Most don't have a clue whether the 'fabric of the world' is merely illusionary. All that they know is that their concepts of RIGHT and WRONG have violently changed. They may no longer trust everything they were taught as children, but that is the only description of the world that they possess until they find new teachers. > >> >......How does a deity cope with > >> > someone with amoral personality disorder? > I don't think there is a way of categorizing sanity in a consistent > way for illuminates and theists. An illuminate may appear totaly insane > to a theist and yet be acting in a perfectly sane way according to > her worldview. Insanity is a cultural definition of 'someone who does not act like we think they should'. If that person acts totally amoral, they will soon break a capital law and be subject to punishment. Their illumination status has nothing to do with it and the only choice is to run away. > I didn't mean to cause anyone to fixate on the importance of personal > feelings of guilt. Guilt in a cosmic sense implies a universal > moral order - i.e. the compromise. Illuminates don't believe in > universal morality, or at least don't have to, and so guilt is > meaningless. How can you be guilty of a crime if there are no laws? There has been several statements on the Glorantha list about 'detect' spells picking up feelings, intents, beliefs, or guilt of the target. In this sense it matters greatly, since your belief that you can be detected may make you be detected. I would prefer to consider these spells to draw on the rune of the light of TRUTH, possibly as interpreted by your culture's laws, so that some trick of hypnosis will not negate them. As I understand it, current game world view says that because laws exist, 'good' people try to keep them, and 'bad' or 'chaotic' people are compelled to try to break them. These laws ARE a recurring 'higher moral order', although it is not identical from one culture to the next. The laws change as the chief god changes and the definition of morality changes slightly with them, but the dichotomy of 'good' vs. 'bad' continues in every culture, and applies until an individual is illuminated. Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:21:31 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] illumination and the nature of Glorantha Simon: >> I don't think there is a way of categorizing sanity in a consistent >> way for illuminates and theists. An illuminate may appear totaly >> insane to a theist and yet be acting in a perfectly sane way >> according to her worldview. Bob: > Insanity is a cultural definition of 'someone who does not act like we >think they should'. I agree, by Orlanthi standards, an illuminated thanatari/orlanthi is insane. But, just because they don't intellectually understand the term "transcendence", that doesn't mean that they aren't experiencing a transcendental view of the universe without knowing it. >> If that person acts totally amoral, they will soon break a >>capital law and be subject to punishment. Their illumination >>status has nothing to do with it and the only choice is to run away. Their moral perspectives are changed, but they still know from their knowledge of their own culture that if they walk into a Lankhor Mhy entrance exam with a major head under their arm, then they aren't going to pass it, no matter how clever the head is! Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2000 16:25:09 -0000 From: "Hibbs, Philip" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] illumination and the nature of Glorantha >There has been several statements on the Glorantha list about >'detect' spells picking up feelings, intents, beliefs, or guilt of the >target. In this sense it matters greatly, since your belief that >you can be detected may make you be detected. Aha, I have an old email from Sandy on this subject ... let me see ... Aha, here it is: ======================================== >[Sandy Petersen Wed 04/03/98 14:59] > My theory is that trolls, elves, worshipers of >Orlanth, etc., each emit a unique psychic aura. If you set up a >magical template which is sensitive to that aura, it can automatically >trigger other objects in your enchantment. It's the same principle by >which Detection spells work -- they're just wave-patterns which react >to the presence of their designated auras. > Anyway, that's my answer. > >"What kind of information can the condition act upon?" > Well, I think there are limits. I think that it can identify >species, sex, race, god (because you've set up a psychic link to your >god), and cult "level" (i.e., whether you're a priest, initiate, lay >member). Other things might be detectible by certain enchanters and >not others. > For instance, I would say that an ancestor worshiper or Yelmite >could set up an enchantment which could distinguish between people >based on their lineage, but that a Malkioni or Orlanthi could not do >this. As another example, I think that a Malkioni could set up an >enchantment that could distinguish between different sects of >Malkionism, but that a theist could not. This is not because the >enchantment is using the Malkioni's perceptions, but because he's >better-equipped to recognize the minor variations in aura that sect >membership causes. Thus, he can set up wave-patterns in his >enchantments that can distinguish this. ======================================== Well, that's Sandy's opinion. Philip Hibbs http://www.snark.freeserve.co.uk/ Opinions expressed may not even be my own, let alone those of any organisations, nations, species, or schools of thought to which I may be affiliated. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 18:27:50 +0100 From: Antonio Manghisi Subject: [RQ-RULES] RuneQuest and Tolkien MiddleEarth Has anyone ever wrote something to play adventures in Tolkien's MiddleEarth with RuneQuest rules? Bye, Toni *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #15 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.