From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #50 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, May 3 2000 Volume 03 : Number 050 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Gun data Re: [RQ-RULES] Gun data [RQ-RULES] Re: RQ:AiG Questions [RQ-RULES] Fatigue and guns Re: [RQ-RULES] guns on Harn Re: [RQ-RULES] Harn gods Re: [RQ-RULES] Gun data Re: [RQ-RULES] guns on Harn Vs: [RQ-RULES] RQ:AiG Questions Re: [RQ-RULES] stats RE: [RQ-RULES] stats [RQ-RULES] Re: Fatigue system Re: [RQ-RULES] stats RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 15:56:58 -0400 (EDT) From: bjm10@cornell.edu Subject: [RQ-RULES] Gun data I'll go dig back through my spreadsheets and see what RQ-type data I came up with by using 3G3. As for the rate of fire. A flintlock musket could be fired as often as six times in a minute by an expert shooter. British recruits were required to fire at NO LESS than four times per minute--this included aiming, as the British were unusual among Europeans--they required target practice. Won't work in heavy rain. That's a flintlock. A matchlock has a slower rate of fire, probably 3/minute for a good shooter, 4/minute for an expert. Won't work if it's foggy or under light rain. Wheellocks are also slower than flintlocks, but they'll work in all weather short of outright downpour. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 17:26:02 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Gun data bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: > > I'll go dig back through my spreadsheets and see what RQ-type data I came > up with by using 3G3. Shsh. CoC has a decent list of firearms data, but the absolute, end-of-all-lists for more modern firearms is in the back of Pagan Publishing's Delta Green supplement. As an added bonus, it's a BRP system too, so the numbers need very little tweaking. - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 19:39:54 -0500 (CDT) From: Kevin Rose Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: RQ:AiG Questions From what I remember of my play test games, spirits were way too powerful. Spirit combat was very ugly, exactly why I'm not sure anyome. Shamans in general were too powerful and sorcery was way too weak. There was absolutely no reason to be a sorcery using player, it was totally hopless. Sandy's sorcerey and shaman rules are much better. Combat was ok, except they fiddled around with the damage and armor points in a fairly pointless tinkering. I'd probably ignore these particular changes also. The maneuver skill seemed sort of neat and worked ok for us. The character creation stuff was very good. I really liked it, compared to the silly RQ3 system. Kevin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 23:59:31 -0500 From: Steve Lieb Subject: [RQ-RULES] Fatigue and guns > I use RQIII and I'm having a fit using the fatigue system. Namely, I keep > forgetting to have my players use it so it ends up being redundant. Add > that as GM, I have enough problems without keeping track of the NPCs > fatigue. End result, fatigue is not used. Does anyone use a different > system that is not so bookkeeping intensive? My $.02: I simply wait until 5 or so rounds have passed, and hit everyone then with -5 to their fatigues. As most people have already replied, it's not usually an issue for most circumstances (and I generally don't even bother unless I expect the encounter will take a while). My PC's used to get into a lot of running battles (those damn NPC's kept calling for help) > > I am currently running a RQ game set in Harn. We reconceptualized the original > setting to put it into an era roughly equivalent to the Renaissance. Thus there > is the use of gunpowder in the form of early muskets and pistols. We have a > pistol doing d10 damage, taking two rounds to reload, and a musket doing 3d6 > damage, taking three rounds to reload. Good for you, Harn is a fantastic world. I'd agree with the other poster that your reload times are too short: Firelock Pistol: 8 mr Matchlock Pistol: 8 mr Flintlock Pistol: 6 mr Muskets (smoothbore) 1 mr LESS to reload. Rifled weapons (I don't know how advanced you go) +4 mr to reload Of course, the consequences of moving with a cocked matchlock could be bad, and with a firelock catastrophic. In terms of damage, I've always left guns a little open ended, to make them more scary. Say, a pistol does 2d6, and a musket 3d6, add another dice for each 6 rolled. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 00:46:09 -0500 From: James Welch IV Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] guns on Harn dabick@excite.com wrote: > > I think the reload of your early muskets is too quick. If the enemy charged > there was no chance to reload and get a second shot off. Thus the muskets > became expensive clubs. I think the reload should be more like 6/MR to > reload. Remember, you had to use two types of powder, a wad of cloth, and > the bullet. Get all that in the gun properly, in not too little or too much > powder, while your life is most likely under threat. From what I have seen > and done, the old black powder was not as easy to reload as a crossbow. > > I do have to say, I don't know Harn. It is possible the guns they have are > more advanced than what I am thinking. Are they use burning wicks or > flintlocks to ignite the powder in the flash pans? > > Jim I agree that the musket reload times are too short. It usually doesn't come up in combat, as musketeers have a chance to get off one shot before they're engaged in hand to hand with whoever's left. I'm thinking about introducing bayonets, but I'm not sure when they were developed. We're looking at early wick type weapons here. Of course, the development of weaponry on our version of Harn does not need to correspond with European timelines. In the original Harn, there are no guns at all, but we've taken quite a few liberties to make things more experimental and interesting. I like the possibilities of mixing more modern technologies and political structures with magic. There are elaborate sorcery "universities", gothic cathedrals dedicated to "pagan" gods, etc. The printing press has been recently introduced, originally developed by elves. It's a pretty cool mix. Thanks for your input, Astor *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 01:01:25 -0500 From: James Welch IV Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Harn gods Terje Tollisen wrote: > There are some rules for guns and sutch used by dwarfes. I believe they are > in the Elder Races book. > The gods on Harn do have some archtypeish feauters, but they have many > aspects. They give power depending on who worships them, and how they are > worshipped. But in generall you have a war god (Aghrick), the Death god > (Morgath), god for knowledge and wisdom (often worshipped by members of the > Shek Pvar)(Save-Knor)and so on. Also, demons any other things like tht are > quite important (like the, Phergas, master of the underworld(Burgahi)). > The magic system is different from RQ, so I don't think you will find cult > spells per se. I think priests use rituales mostly. The best way to learn > about the gods would be to buy the book Gods on Harn(or something in that > manner). > Sorry, but I have no web referances. > > -Terje Tollisen We've been using Harn as a Runequest module for so long, I'd forgotten it had its own game system. Obviously, I'm trying to avoid having to actually purchase material on a world we've already modified so much. The gods you mention do fit somewhat nicely into proper archetypes, but take Halea, for instance, who seems a combo of fertility and trickster, or Peoni, who is a healing goddess, but not quite either a moon or an earth goddess. Or Larani, who is a war/ruling god, but also has elements of Chivalry which are somewhat post Glorantha. Then, there's Ilvir, which seems more like a Cthulhu god than anything else. Anyway, I'm merely fishing around for ideas. Thanks for your help, Astor *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 01:07:39 -0500 From: James Welch IV Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Gun data bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: > I'll go dig back through my spreadsheets and see what RQ-type data I came > up with by using 3G3. > > As for the rate of fire. A flintlock musket could be fired as often as > six times in a minute by an expert shooter. British recruits were > required to fire at NO LESS than four times per minute--this included > aiming, as the British were unusual among Europeans--they required target > practice. Won't work in heavy rain. > > That's a flintlock. A matchlock has a slower rate of fire, probably > 3/minute for a good shooter, 4/minute for an expert. Won't work if it's > foggy or under light rain. > > Wheellocks are also slower than flintlocks, but they'll work in all > weather short of outright downpour. > Thanks for the info. I'm assuming that the data mentioned above are for revolutionary war era weapons, whereas the guns I'm using in my game are probably 300 years older. Wheellocks sound about right to me. Maybe I should watch more History Channel documentaries... Thanks again, Astor *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 02:49:09 EDT From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] guns on Harn In a message dated 5/2/2000 10:56:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time, astor@prismnet.com writes: << I agree that the musket reload times are too short. It usually doesn't come up in combat, as musketeers have a chance to get off one shot before they're engaged in hand to hand with whoever's left. I'm thinking about introducing bayonets, but I'm not sure when they were developed. We're looking at early wick type weapons here. Of course, the development of weaponry on our version of Harn does not need to correspond with European timelines. In the original Harn, there are no guns at all, but we've taken quite a few liberties to make things more experimental and interesting. I like the possibilities of mixing more modern technologies and political structures with magic. There are elaborate sorcery "universities", gothic cathedrals dedicated to "pagan" gods, etc. The printing press has been recently introduced, originally developed by elves. It's a pretty cool mix. >> Bayonets are a much later development. As you say, someone could have come up with them earlier, of course. The earliest versions of true bayonets were plug bayonets, which were stuck into the barrel. Obviously meant for single shot weapons with long reload times. In the wheelock era I believe combined arms were the main thing, with blocks of pikemen interspersed with blocks of musketeers. A common practice was to carry more than one firearm, with the possibility of getting off two shots before the enemy was upon you. Read Lord Kalvan of Otherwhen by H. Beam Piper and watch the 70s version of the Three Musketeers for some ideas on the era. Steve Perrin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:23:39 +0300 From: "Mikko Korhonen" Subject: Vs: [RQ-RULES] RQ:AiG Questions The basic idea of fatigue rules were in my opinion much better than in RQ3. I've always been against rolling too many dicerolls, so the new damage modifier a good idea, but it wasn't exactly what iwas looking for. Skill levels were great idea; harder skill is harder to learn and vice versa. Overall, the RQ4 had many good ideas, but they are bit too rules heavy IMO. Mikko *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:44:56 +0300 (EET DST) From: Olli-Pekka Kantola Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] stats On Tue, 2 May 2000 Mikko.Korhonen@info3.helia.fi wrote: > How do you handle very high stats? I am currently running high-magic > campaign set in Glorantha (West Genertela), and the players have access > to different kinds of stat-boosting magics. Basically, does anybody have > house-rules to stats over racial maximum. Any bonuses exept the normal > skill & damage bonuses. For example, how does DEX 26 reflect ? IMO for westerners the normal bonuses are enough, but make up some rules concerning using 2-H weapons in one hand, using two weapons, possibly additional combat actions for those of extremely high DEX. Maybe a limited number of heroic usages would also be in order. For DEX 26 I would't use extra actions or anything heroic. I think that the RQ rules don't describe sorcerers very well. The attribute boosting spells are way too good. The shaping of natural laws(or maybe their apt exploiting) in order to make someone quicker, stronger or bigger! Come on! Olli Kantola *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 08:30:24 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] stats >The attribute boosting spells are way too good. The shaping of >natural laws (or maybe their apt exploiting) in order to make >someone quicker, stronger or bigger! Come on! >Olli Kantola Sorcery isn't the only place where these can occur. Divine magic can increase Siz, Str and AP. Spirit Magic can increase Str, Con, Dex, App, and AP. The natural laws to do this are clearly considered to exist, and Greg has also introduced versions of these concepts into his myths and stories. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 10:37:26 -0400 From: Frederic Moulin Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re: Fatigue system >I use RQIII and I'm having a fit using the fatigue system. Namely, I keep >forgetting to have my players use it so it ends up being redundant. Add >that as GM, I have enough problems without keeping track of the NPCs >fatigue. End result, fatigue is not used. Does anyone use a different >system that is not so bookkeeping intensive? > Just copied and pasted from our house rules. "Strike Ranks (SR) are the measure of 'speed of doing'. Each character has DEX SR (a measure of reflexes and speed) which can be modified by the amount of armor/equipment carried (ENC SR), a SIZ SR (a measure of reach), and each weapon has a melee SR, which indicates (basically) its length and speed in combat. When added together, the resulting number is the number of SR it takes the character to ready and use his weapon. Normally, if the character is just standing there swinging, this is counted from SR1. The old system of fatigue, judged too cumbersome, was phased out in favor of a modifier to the DEX SR that we called ENC SR. The ENC SR is calculated from the total fatigue point and reflect the fact that a character with an heavy backpack is significantly slower and less nimble than one without it. ENC SR Current Fatigue Points +0 Max to 3/4 of Max. +1 3/4 of Max to 1/2 of Max. +2 1/2 of Max to 1/4 of Max +3 1/4 of Max to 0 +4 Negative FP value My experience has been that a combat in RQ never last so long that players could actually experience a significant reduction of their skills by fatigue, and this system will definitively give a little edge to a good and lightly armored fighter against a tank. Remember that the ENC SR is a modifier to the DEX SR. Which means that every action that used to start at DEX SR (Missile, Spells, Maneuvers...) start now at DEX SR + ENC SR. A good reasons for sorcerers to avoid wearing full plate armor!! " Frederic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 3 May 2000 09:13:36 -0700 From: "Timothy Byrd" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] stats Olli Kantola: > >The attribute boosting spells are way too good. The shaping of > >natural laws (or maybe their apt exploiting) in order to make > >someone quicker, stronger or bigger! Come on! I think it depends immensely on the world you are running in. I see a lot of stat enhancing/changing stuff in fantasy literature. In Norse mythology, didn't Thor have a belt of strength or is that a mis-memory from my D&D days? What about seven league boots (from Grimm's?) for Increase Movement? Eating the heart of a lion or wearing a bear's skin to partake of it's strength? Taking a sip from the bottle marked "Drink me" to changes one's size. In one of Lloyd Alexander's books - The Black Cauldron, I think - there is a brooch that noticably enhances stats/skills. As for the spells being too powerful, again it depends on the world you want to run. In Steve's Carcasona campaign, he was trying out a variant on the sorcery rules that happened to be very generous concerning stat enhancing magic. If I recall correctly, one player bumped us his character's strength to comic-book, super-hero level, and another did something similar with dexterity. It may not have been what Steve intended, and I'm pretty sure it screwed up some of his plans for what were going to be the difficult parts of the adventure, but it was certainly fun for the players. - -- Tim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #50 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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