From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #69 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Sunday, July 30 2000 Volume 03 : Number 069 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Mostali / Bronze-Age Glorantha Re: [RQ-RULES] Mostali / Bronze-Age Glorantha [RQ-RULES] Field Plate Re: [RQ-RULES] Field Plate Re: [RQ-RULES] Field Plate RE: [RQ-RULES] Field Plate [RQ-RULES] Birds of the Lances Re: [RQ-RULES] Birds of the Lances [RQ-RULES] RQ Page Update [RQ-RULES] Geographic Move RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:19:56 -0400 (EDT) From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Mostali / Bronze-Age Glorantha DCFitch1 >Hmmm.....sounds like a Bronze Age world to me. What tipped you off? Was it the Bronze Age Western knights in shining iron armour jousting each other? Or perhaps the Sophisticated monetary Bronze Age economies of the Lunar and Kralorelan Empires, or perhaps it's the Bronze Age metropolises of Glamour and Sog City. The only thing Bronze Age about many, many parts of Glorantha is that many of them are restricted to using Bronze because Iron simply isn't available. When they can get iron, they're perfectly capable of smithing with it. Technologicaly, economicaly, socialy and politicaly the regions of Peloria, Kralorela, Seshnella and western Fronela are far more advanced than any earthly bronze age societies. Trent Smith >you've got your cause-effect relationship backwards: bronze (as opposed to, >say iron) is the metal that Gloranthans mine from the earth because the >designers wanted Glorantha to have a Bronze Age feel! Which designers do you mean? Have you talked to them about this? Please quote any reference in any RQ product ever which says that Glorantha is a Bronze Age world. One will do. It says is RQ2 that the principle metal used in Glorantha is Bronze. That's not the same thing. Please point out to me the Bronze Age earthly parallels for the Lunar Empire, Kralorela, Loskalm (which was the first part of Glorantha ever written about), Seshnela, etc. >Even if someone pulls forth some unpublished Staffordiana showing that this idea >dates back to 196x, I'll still maintain that it was done to differentiate >Glorantha from run-of-the-mill fantasy of the day (Tolkein and his >rip-offs). Greg Stafford hadn't read any Tolkien untill about a decade after he started working on Glorantha, so it's hard to see how he could have been doing anything deliberate to differentiate from it. Remember that AD&D and other Tolkien ripoffs hadn't happened and the Tolkien-esque was not as common a fantasy theme as it is now. If Stafford had any fantasy fiction in mind when writing about Glorantha, it was probably the books of Robert E. Howard and Lord Dunsany. However the real inspiration for Glorantha is real world religion, philosophy and myth. I'm afraid the "Compare Everything to Tolkien" brigade tell us more about their own preconceptions about fantasy than they do about Greg's. > .....Now, as Greg has gotten older and >more serious about Glorantha, he's attempted to go back and make these >things seem logical and "real" and integrate them into a proper Gloranthan >framework The seminal work on Mostali was done in 1982, and was not just invented from whole cloth then. Mostali have not changed in any significant respect since. To understand Mostali, it helps a lot to understand the assumptions behind their psychology. The Mostali psyche corresponds with the Ego in Freudian psychoanalysis. They are exclusively obsessed with their place in the world and their interaction with it. Their job function determines who and what they are. They have no Id and no Superego. If you think about them in that way, I think you'll find them a lot easier to understand. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 13:10:34 EDT From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Mostali / Bronze-Age Glorantha In a message dated 7/25/00 7:23:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com writes: > > >you've got your cause-effect relationship backwards: bronze (as opposed to, > > >say iron) is the metal that Gloranthans mine from the earth because the > >designers wanted Glorantha to have a Bronze Age feel! > > Which designers do you mean? Have you talked to them > about this? Me, for one. I was still remembering some research I had done on Bronze Age civilizations while in college (not to mention some of the more obscure fantasies of L. Sprague de Camp) and came up with the idea of using Bronze and trying for a Bronze Age feel. Greg went along with it. Of course, we were doing a fantasy Bronze Age... > Please quote any reference in any RQ product ever > which says that Glorantha is a Bronze Age world. > One will do. It says is RQ2 that the principle > metal used in Glorantha is Bronze. That's not the > same thing. Please point out to me the Bronze Age > earthly parallels for the Lunar Empire, Kralorela, > Loskalm (which was the first part of Glorantha ever > written about), Seshnela, etc. Lamentably, I am far enough removed from Glorantha these days (this is the RuneQuest list, after all) that I don't really remember where most of the referenced lands are. I'm also not sure just when Greg started coming up with Glorantha. When I started working at the Chaosium in 1981, I was 35, Greg is two years younger than I am. Has anyone heard Greg say how old he was when he first started working on Glorantha? I might have, but it has been a long time. White Bear and Red Moon had been out for around three years, perhaps four. > >Even if someone pulls forth some unpublished Staffordiana showing that this > idea > >dates back to 196x, I'll still maintain that it was done to differentiate > >Glorantha from run-of-the-mill fantasy of the day (Tolkein and his > >rip-offs). As far as RuneQuest (rather than Glorantha) is concerned, this is very correct. > Greg Stafford hadn't read any Tolkien untill about a decade > after he started working on Glorantha, so it's hard to > see how he could have been doing anything deliberate to > differentiate from it. Remember that AD&D and other Tolkien > ripoffs hadn't happened and the Tolkien-esque was not as > common a fantasy theme as it is now. If Stafford had any > fantasy fiction in mind when writing about Glorantha, it was > probably the books of Robert E. Howard and Lord Dunsany. > However the real inspiration for Glorantha is real world > religion, philosophy and myth. I'm afraid the "Compare > Everything to Tolkien" brigade tell us more about their own > preconceptions about fantasy than they do about Greg's. Now here is where my question about when Greg started working on Glorantha comes in. Around 1982 or 1983, the Lord of the Rings movie came out, and Greg saw it and talked knowledgably about it and how it related to the books (and I'm sure we talked about Tolkien before then--I just don't have as vivid a memory of the occasion as I do of sitting in his living room and discussing the movie). Greg was about 35 at the time. Has he said he has been working on Glorantha since he was, say, 22? Keep in mind that I believe his first stories were about a rather undifferentiated fantasy world and featured Sir Ethilrist and the Black Horse troop (if I remember old stories correctly). > > .....Now, as Greg has gotten older and > >more serious about Glorantha, he's attempted to go back and make these > >things seem logical and "real" and integrate them into a proper Gloranthan > >framework > > The seminal work on Mostali was done in 1982, and was not just invented > from whole cloth then. Mostali have not changed in any significant > respect since. To understand Mostali, it helps a lot to understand the > assumptions behind their psychology. The Mostali psyche corresponds > with the Ego in Freudian psychoanalysis. They are exclusively obsessed > with their place in the world and their interaction with it. Their job > function determines who and what they are. They have no Id and no Superego. > If you think about them in that way, I think you'll find them a lot easier > to understand. > As may be. Greg put a lot of work into making the Mostali different. Steve Perrin, mostly reminiscing about being in one cottage industry (paper RPGs) as I now work in another one (dot com online games). *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 14:04:47 EDT From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: [RQ-RULES] Field Plate I was reading through my copy of the RQ4 stuff and came across some odd things in the proposed Armor Table. While some of the AP values change between RQ3 & RQ4 versions of some armor types, the thing _I'm_ wondering about is the THREE different models of Plate available: Light Plate-----------7AP (same AP as RQ3 Chain& Brigandine)-----20Enc(Medium). Heavy Plate---------8AP (same AP as standard RQ3 Plate)-----------25Enc(Medium). Field Plate-----------9AP----------------------------------------------------------- - --30Enc(Medium). Okay, Light and Heavy models are prettymuch self explanatory, but what the heck is Field Plate supposed to be? Illuminate me, someone :) -Ken- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:54:17 EDT From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Field Plate In a message dated 7/25/00 11:13:08 AM Pacific Daylight Time, MurfNMurf@aol.com writes: > I was reading through my copy of the RQ4 stuff and came across some odd > things in the proposed Armor Table. While some of the AP values change > between RQ3 & RQ4 versions of some armor types, the thing _I'm_ wondering > about is the THREE different models of Plate available: > > Light Plate-----------7AP (same AP as RQ3 Chain& > Brigandine)-----20Enc(Medium). > Heavy Plate---------8AP (same AP as standard RQ3 > Plate)-----------25Enc(Medium). > Field > Plate-----------9AP---------------------------------------------------------- > - > --30Enc(Medium). > > Okay, Light and Heavy models are prettymuch self explanatory, but what > the > heck is Field Plate supposed to be? > Illuminate me, someone :) > First thing I did was check my own version of RQ4 and found that I did not do this. I have Light Plate (equiv to brigandine-plates sewn together in leather garment), Plate, and Extra Heavy Plate, which is generally only for really big people, trolls, etc. Whoever came up with the Light Plate, Plate, and Field Plate got their values mixed up, as I interpret those terms. Field Plate would, to me, mean plate armor that is intended to be worn in the field, on a horse or off, for a full day's campaigning. In other words, it needs to be lighter than Heavy Plate, which one may wear for a duel or joust, or perhaps defense of a wall. Steve Perrin, always willing to critique another's terminology :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 18:06:07 -0400 From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Field Plate sperrin@aol.com wrote: >MurfNMurf@aol.com writes: >> Okay, Light and Heavy models are prettymuch self explanatory, but what >> the >> heck is Field Plate supposed to be? >> Illuminate me, someone :) > >Whoever came up with the Light Plate, Plate, and Field Plate got their values >mixed up, as I interpret those terms. Field Plate would, to me, mean plate >armor that is intended to be worn in the field, on a horse or off, for a full >day's campaigning. In other words, it needs to be lighter than Heavy Plate, >which one may wear for a duel or joust, or perhaps defense of a wall. The only place I'm familiar with 'field plate' from is the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide (1st edition), where 'field plate' is an optional, heavier sort of armor (AC 2 vs 'plate-mail' AC 3), described as custom-fit to the wearer and very expensive, but, IIRC, actually less cumbersome than off-the-shelf plate-mail (due to better weight distribution). I have no idea what, if anything, is the real-world historical derivation of this term, but I do suspect that's where whoever wrote that RQ4 table got it from. Trent *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 16:30:43 -0600 From: "Rich Allen" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Field Plate > The only place I'm familiar with 'field plate' from is the AD&D > Dungeon Masters Guide (1st edition), where 'field plate' is an > optional, heavier sort of armor (AC 2 vs 'plate-mail' AC 3), > described as custom-fit to the wearer and very expensive, but, > IIRC, actually less cumbersome than off-the-shelf plate-mail (due > to better weight distribution). I have no idea what, if > anything, is the real-world historical derivation of this term, > but I do suspect that's where whoever wrote that RQ4 table got it from. Yup, that goeas along with what Steve is saying. Plate-mail is just chainmail with a breast plate and maybe some arm and shin plates; field plate is a step up from that, then you get into the full-plate suits with articulated plate joints, etc. At least, that's the way I understand it. I also think they are mixing up scale-mail with light plate... LOL Rich *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 04:05:57 +0200 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Germ=E1n_Cantabrana_Gonz=E1lez?=" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Birds of the Lances Do you know something about a Kralorelan squadron called Birds of the Lances? and their stadistics? JAM *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 23:17:00 EDT From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Birds of the Lances In a message dated Thu, 27 Jul 2000 10:53:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Germán Cantabrana González" writes: << Do you know something about a Kralorelan squadron called Birds of the Lances? and their stadistics? JAM You might try the Glorantha list. Steve Perrin *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. >> *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 00:45:41 -0400 From: Peter Maranci Subject: [RQ-RULES] RQ Page Update Just a quick note to announce that Pete's RuneQuest Page! has been updated again. A new section, "Chatter", has been added, which includes the beginning of the next scenario I'll be posting. Also, a magic place and two new magic items have been added to the "People, Places, & Things" section (formerly the "NPCs" section). A reminder: the new URL is . If you maintain a web page with a link to my site, I'd appreciate an update. As always, comments are always VERY welcome. It's been very quiet since I changed domains... ->Peter - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Maranci peter@maranci.net Woonsocket, RI Pete's RQ Page! scenarios, sheets, more: http://www.maranci.net/rq.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 13:14:40 -0400 From: Frederic Moulin Subject: [RQ-RULES] Geographic Move Hi fellows US players, I recently moved to PA (Bucks County) and was wondering if there was any active RuneQuest group in that area. Thanks, Frederic *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #69 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.