From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.imagiconline.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #71 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, August 8 2000 Volume 03 : Number 071 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] (no subject) Re: [RQ-RULES] (no subject) [RQ-RULES] Guns and Armor Re: [RQ-RULES] Guns and Armor [RQ-RULES] Spirits & Spirit Combat Question (longish) [RQ-RULES] stuff RE: [RQ-RULES] Guns and Armor Re: [RQ-RULES] Guns and Armor RE: [RQ-RULES] Spirits & Spirit Combat Question (longish) Re: [RQ-RULES] Spirits & Spirit Combat Question (longish) Re: [RQ-RULES] Spirits & Spirit Combat Question (longish) RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 18:45:01 +0800 From: "Russell Hoyle" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] (no subject) Why bother? There is no traffic anyways :) - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 6:30 PM Subject: [RQ-RULES] (no subject) > unsubscribe runequest-rules > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 18:50:13 +0800 From: "Russell Hoyle" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] (no subject) Oh, and BTW Steve, look at the bottom of the messages to unsub PROPERLY! - ----- Original Message ----- From: Russell Hoyle To: Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 6:45 PM Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] (no subject) > Why bother? There is no traffic anyways :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 6:30 PM > Subject: [RQ-RULES] (no subject) > > > > unsubscribe runequest-rules > > > > > *************************************************************************** > > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to > majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 01:30:48 -0500 From: James Welch IV Subject: [RQ-RULES] Guns and Armor I am currently running a Runequest game set in the world of Harn. The level of technology and culture is loosely based upon the European Renaissance. Thus there is gunpowder, and weapons including muskets, pistols, and cannon. In earth's history, gunpowder made armor, at least in the medieval sense, obsolete. However, in my game, since guns are still at a relatively low state of development and not universally in use, armor is still around at a very high state of craftsmanship. How effective would Brigandine or Plate Armor, or even treated leather be against muskets or pistols? It seems to me that seven points of plate would effectively stop a shot, but the amount of kinetic energy in the shot would still be absorbed by the body. For instance, I have pistols doing a d10 of damage. If someone wearing a seven point breastplate was hit by a pistol shot doing only six points of damage, would they simply be able to shrug it off, at least according to the Runequest combat system? If this is the case, then why was armor considered useless by the time the Renaissance rolled around? Thanks in advance for any ideas or input, Astor *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 05:12:50 EDT From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Guns and Armor In a message dated 8/7/00 11:39:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, astor@prismnet.com writes: > If someone wearing a seven > point breastplate was hit by a pistol shot doing only six points of damage, > would they simply be able to shrug it off, at least according to the > Runequest combat system? If this is the case, then why was armor considered > useless by the time the Renaissance rolled around? > > I've seen a Cromwellian breastplate meant to stop a bullet. It had even been proofed by someone firing a musket at it. The armor was thick, much thicker than plate tournament armor, which I saw in the same collection. Needless to say, it was not worn for very long nor worn by any kind of rank and file. I would suggest making bullets do something like 2D6 instead of 1d10, or maybe even 1d12, or 1d10+2. Bulletproof plate would be about 10 points of armor, and have major encumbrance penalties, even if you don't play with encumbrance rules. Rank and file in the early musket era were issued "good and sufficient" armor. It wasn't. Steve Perrin, showing his Society for Creative Anachronism roots *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 12:47:46 +0100 From: "Dawson Ricky (RD)" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spirits & Spirit Combat Question (longish) A question for you all out there - how do GM's deal with Spirit combat in there games..especially the area of possession ?....if that sounds a bit vague let me shed some light on my meaning: This is an excerpt from our current campaign. The PC's find themselves at an old abandoned keep located just south of Istivin, the capital of Sterich prior to the great war (the game is set in the AD&D World of Greyhawk using RQ2/3 & Tal's rules). On arriving at the walled keep the PC's were initially attacked by a dozen or so skeletons that were quickly despatched before the PC's moved into the Keep's courtyard. Once inside the PC's did the atypical thing in that they all split up, with the majority of the group moving into the Keep's main building, while 2 other entered the only remaining (safe appearing) tower on the nearby outer wall, leaving 2 PC's in the courtyard. These being a shaman and a bowwoman (follower of Tritherion). While the other PC's were investigating the GM decided to strike at the 2 PC's on their own. With his 'big bad guy' he summoned spirits of Pain and had them attack the characters. The first assault was on the Shaman who was immediately knocked to the ground writhing in agony (he had no spirit shield up !!..dah ! - nor did the GM account for the time it takes for a spirit to coalesce), instead they followed the normal rules for spirit combat with the Shaman losing and the spirit taking possession of his body (and thus leaving the Shaman as a discorporate spirit). The GM then struck at the bowwoman, which had a similar outcome. Now my question for you is how do PC's rid themselves of these spirits ? As physical entities cannot initiate spirit combat it makes it quite hard for the characters to rid themselves of these (especially as this could allow an annoying GM to constantly harass the party with these encounters)...we had a number of ideas (none particularly awe inspiring - such as well let's kill them and then use Resurrection to bring them back - thus forcing the spirit of pain to leave the PC's body (+ also losing the poor unfortunate PC any spirits he/she may have bound). Or would any GM rule that if we killed the summoner the spirits would return to the spirit plane ? The other problem we have is that the GM only allowed Battle (spirit)?Rune (Divine) magic that is listed in the main RQ2 rulebook !!.....I have a priest in this game and I only have personal protection from spirits (such as spirit shield & spirit block) with no spells that I can cast on someone who has been possessed..... So with these thoughts can anybody give me some advice on how to (hopefully) cure are unfortunate comrades ? Thanks Ricky *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 08:35:56 +0100 From: William Wenz Subject: [RQ-RULES] stuff Hello all, Someone posted awhile ago wanting to know the availability of RQ stuff. I just acquired some extra copies of Wyrm's Footnotes if anyone is interested. Issues 11, 12, 13, and 14. I also came across a lot of the early White Dwarf issues on the web at Noble Knight Games, there is a list of which issues contain RQ articles on the web, but I am not sure where. Kurt *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 08:30:39 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Guns and Armor >Astor wrote: > It seems to me that seven points of plate would > effectively stop a shot, but the amount > of kinetic energy in the shot would still be > absorbed by the body. I have never seen a game system make missile weapons sufficiently deadly. A longbow probably hits with more force than a greatsword and should do at least as much damage, if not more. Also, of you want an extra rule, the ability to impale with projectile weapons (not hurled) whould be easier also. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 08:52:11 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Guns and Armor James Welch IV wrote: > > very high state of craftsmanship. How effective would Brigandine or Plate > Armor, or even treated leather be against muskets or pistols? It seems to > me that seven points of plate would effectively stop a shot, but the amount > of kinetic energy in the shot would still be absorbed by the body. For > instance, I have pistols doing a d10 of damage. If someone wearing a seven > point breastplate was hit by a pistol shot doing only six points of damage, > would they simply be able to shrug it off, at least according to the > Runequest combat system? If this is the case, then why was armor considered > useless by the time the Renaissance rolled around? I've always played that most armor is transparent to bullets (i.e. doesn't even apply) but that specially crafted armor made by cultures familiar with gunpowder might offer anywhere from 1/3 rd to 1/2 protection against bullets. While "whatever you want goes" in a fantasy campaign, ITRW, if metal armor was any defense against bullets, we'd still be using it. Kevlar was a long time in coming... - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Aug 2000 09:01:05 -0400 From: "Bob Stancliff" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Spirits & Spirit Combat Question (longish) > Ricky wrote > The first assault was on the Shaman who was immediately > knocked to the ground writhing in agony (he had no spirit > shield up !!..dah ! - nor did the GM account for the time > it takes for a spirit to coalesce), instead they followed > the normal rules for spirit combat with the Shaman losing > and the spirit taking possession of his body (and thus > leaving the Shaman as a discorporate spirit). While I avoid criticizing, you asked for my opinion... I will be refering to RQ3 rules, but not citing them. I will assume that the 'big bad guy' has a couple of Passion spirit binds to keep his pets in, since the time to summon is several hours each. When the two spirits attack the shaman, only one can affect him in a round because he is embodied (this doesn't apply to spirits fighting spirits). Since the shaman is supposed to add his fetch's MP's to his own for defense, the Passion spirits would have to be in the high 20's or 30's to have any reasonable chance to affect him (a normal human has no chance against a spirit this high). Passion spirits of this size can only be found by a shaman while on the inner planes. Passion spirits only cause their passion after they possess, not while they attack, so the shaman would have to lose before being incapacitated. Either the shaman or the fetch could have thrown spirit screen (or spirit block) as soon as the fight started, which EVERY shaman should have, and which raises the defense even higher. These spells can be thrown on others if available. Any good shaman would have his own bound spirits to counter-attack with, and improve the chances of weakening the attacking spirit faster. Passion spirits covertly possess, so the person's spirit is not repressed or forced out of the body, and he can still take actions (with appropriate penalties). No overtly possessing spirit discorporates the host's spirit, they subjugate it and repress it so that it has no ability to act, even though still within it's own body. This can be detected by 2nd Sight which all shamans have. Any shaman has the ability to discorporate and try to drive a possessing spirit out of someone's body. I doubt that he can do this to himself since his ability to concentrate on rituals will be broken, so he will need to find another shaman big enough to attack the possessing spirit. Once a spirit has possessed someone, it usually stays in the body (some overt possessors try to suicide). You appear to be playing an odd mix of RQ2 and RQ3, but your problem suggests a distinct weakness in rules knowledge, at least for RQ3. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 09:10:05 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Spirits & Spirit Combat Question (longish) "Dawson Ricky (RD)" wrote: > > Now my question for you is how do PC's rid themselves of these spirits ? As > physical entities cannot initiate spirit combat it makes it quite hard for > the characters to rid themselves of these (especially as this could allow an With the shaman possessed, you're pretty much done until you find another shaman. - - I have a similar bit coming up in the game I'm running tomorrow night. One of the players elected to begin the game with a bounty on her head, and I wove a story of thwarted love, betrayal, and death behind it. She has recently been captured and brought back to the scene of the crime by the sons of the man she supposedly killed... The party, having killed the older brother (the 'bad guy' of the scenario - he was going to sacrifice her to his god), is now arranging a tryst between their female companion and the younger brother of the true villain (the one she'd had a relationship with in the past), but he's staked an awful lot on getting her to return to him. If she refuses to remain with him, he's planning to release a love passion spirit against her to get her to change her mind. - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 15:14:51 +0200 (CEST) From: dariocor@neomedia.it Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Spirits & Spirit Combat Question (longish) Hi to all > > While the other PC's were investigating the GM decided to strike at the > 2 > PC's on their own. With his 'big bad guy' he summoned spirits of Pain > and > had them attack the characters. > > The first assault was on the Shaman who was immediately knocked to the > ground writhing in agony (he had no spirit shield up !!..dah ! - nor did > the > GM account for the time it takes for a spirit to coalesce), instead they > followed the normal rules for spirit combat with the Shaman losing and > the > spirit taking possession of his body (and thus leaving the Shaman as a > discorporate spirit). Well, I haven't the rules at hand but I think that the spirit of the shaman can try to free his body with spirit combat again. Your group shouldn't have problems with spirits having a full shaman with them.The shaman resist to spirits with combined Fetch-Himself Power force. The Pain spirit you unleash vs them must be very big or very lucky to bypass the defences of the shaman power, or the shaman very tired, or young :). > The GM then struck at the bowwoman, which had a similar outcome. > > Now my question for you is how do PC's rid themselves of these spirits ? > As > physical entities cannot initiate spirit combat it makes it quite hard > for > the characters to rid themselves of these (especially as this could > allow an > annoying GM to constantly harass the party with these encounters A pain spirit should *covertly* possess a character. So, having possessed a PC it manifest himself only in stress situations. Enough time for the PCs to run to the next healer-shaman-priest-exorcist... If they are not summoned, a aggressive, malign spirit must take time to manifest in the phisical plane (use of Visibility spell). So the adventures have time to react (retire, cast protection etc...) Some incorporeal entities are linked to certain places, often abandoning this places free the character from evil influxes (but this is my free idea, not rules) ...we > had a > number of ideas (none particularly awe inspiring - such as well let's > kill > them and then use Resurrection to bring them back - thus forcing the > spirit > of pain to leave the PC's body (+ also losing the poor unfortunate PC > any > spirits he/she may have bound). Or would any GM rule that if we killed > the > summoner the spirits would return to the spirit plane ? > > The other problem we have is that the GM only allowed Battle > (spirit)?Rune > (Divine) magic that is listed in the main RQ2 rulebook !!.....I have a > priest in this game and I only have personal protection from spirits > (such > as spirit shield & spirit block) with no spells that I can cast on > someone > who has been possessed..... No spell can free a possessed person. A spell can ruin the magic points of a spirit to prepare the ground to the exorcism. Then a discorporate entity (a Shaman or a "benefical" spirit) engage in spirit combat the malign spirit. In your case the shaman should find a good spirit and launch it aganst the Pain spirit. But the quickly metod would be the direct attack by the shaman himself Ciao Rick Dario *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #71 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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