From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.ient.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #106 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Friday, October 27 2000 Volume 03 : Number 106 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Re: [RQ-RULES] Point blank Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training, the Posey solution Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training, the Posey solution Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training, the Posey solution Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training [RQ-RULES] Skill Training and characteristics increase [RQ-RULES] Detect spells & panels [RQ-RULES] RE: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #104 Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 13:29:47 -0600 From: "Stephen Posey [TurboPower Software]" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote: > > Stephen Posey wrote: > > I'd be interested to know how the tables were generated, was there some formula > >behind it? > > Well, per the rules (current skill) hours training = 1 pt increase*; > iterated over and over to your target number (46+47+48...66). I'm sure > there's a relatively simple formula to represent this, but I haven't done > this sort of math since high school so I surely don't remember it. Okay, I forgot about that approach. My algebra is in pretty good shape, so here goes. This basically involves knowing that the sum from 1..n can be found by: n * (n + 1) - ----------- 2 Through a series of steps which I won't bore anyone with (unless they REALLY want to know ;-)) going from a starting percentage (S) to destination percentage (D) as described will take: (D - S) * ((D + S) + 1) - --------------------- 2 So, for your example, going from 46 to 66 will take (66 - 46) * ((66 + 46) + 1) (20) * (113) 2260 - --------------------------- = ------------ = ---- = 1130 hours 2 2 2 Which, assuming 8 hour training days and 30 day months, works out to about 5 months, training every day. Stephen Posey slposey@concentric.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:49:17 EDT From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Point blank In a message dated 10/26/00 11:11:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time, dariocor@neomedia.it writes: > > Question 1) > In my past adventure I used a point blank rule for bows. Up to half DX in mt. > and the attack roll was doubled. Do you think this rule fair? Or it > unbalance > the combat to bowmen? I think the chance of getting munched by the target is enough distraction to offset any advantage point blank range provides. Remember that the bowman gets to defend himself with a stick of wood if he doesn't stop his target. That said, giving a bowman that kind of advantage when there is little chance of retribution (such as shooting at the side of a dragon who is involved with the Rune Lord, or at a bound or unconscious captive) is very reasonable. > Question 2) > Why the arrows don't remain struck in the location? I speak of normal succes > attack from a bow, not the impale. In real word the arrows hit the target > and then drop to the ground? > Arrows that strike with normal success create a relatively shallow wound (or perhaps a grazing wound) that the victim can ignore, even if the arrow remains stuck in the body. It was fairly common in the Crusades, for instance, for a Crusader knight in good armor (such as King Richard) to look like a porcupine or hedgehog. Some of those arrows probably penetrated his chain mail to do a very little bit of damage. Impaling arrows go deep and perhaps lodge where any attempt to get them out (or even move around) will do further damage. There are stories in various epics and sagas of arrow targets who just snapped the shaft off the arrowhead and left that in their body as they continued to fight. Think of those as normal arrow hits. Steve Perrin, avoiding the training time question with the same diligence he avoids dealing with it in play... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 15:57:58 EDT From: SPerrin@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training, the Posey solution See, I knew someone would have the formula. Thanks, Stephen. Steve Perrin, whose full name is Stephen, too. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 14:14:13 -0600 From: "Stephen Posey [TurboPower Software]" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training, the Posey solution SPerrin@aol.com wrote: > > See, I knew someone would have the formula. > > Thanks, Stephen. > > Steve Perrin, whose full name is Stephen, too. Is that right? Glad to see you're on the list! You may not recall, but we met briefly many years ago (Pacific Origins, what was that '81?). At the time my father, Ernest Posey, was teaching at the San Francisco Academy of Art and Louise was taking one of his Airbrush classes, IIRC Long time no chat! ;-) Stephen Posey slposey@concentric.net *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 07:59:42 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training >I think you are opening a can of worms here. Even though it may appear to >be more realistic I am not so sure if it is playable. I should point out, that up until recently I was lucky to have very reasonable players who were quite happy to lift the workload from whoever was GMing at the time! >At which point do you increase the skill? I assume it is then the time >spent = hours in the skill at 100%. So, now players must keep track of >partial time spent training. Not important really, you progress in the major skill and acrue your minor %'s as you go along. When you've got enough of the major skill, you just spend five minutes figuring your other %'s and do enough training to top up in that area. (The character realises he's on a breakthrough point, and devotes a little intensive study to something). If the player can't keep track of four of five percentages, while the GM keeps track of maybe twenty critters FP levels etc each combat, they're definitely being carried by the GM! >How long will this partial training last? Does it fade with time? Is the >Dodge learned from Broadsword Attack the same as Dodge learned from Animal >Training (as then you are avoid a horse bite while trying to domesticate >it)? PC's seem to have a very active lifestyle, I'd let them stay indefinitely. Dodge is Dodge, I wouldn't give dodge training during animal training (as that's an animal lore skill usage). For calculation purposes, if you're going to charge the PC 10% of the skill time to dodge, the PC should be dodging for about 10% of the time when you consider them actually doing the training! That's a nasty horse! Also, players always seem to devote themselves to training in one area at a time from what I've seen, you shouldn't have any worries with multiple skill training. >> Now, this may look involved, but as it's the *player* keeping track of >>it there's no problem for the GM! > >I think you are wrong here. I see it as a major headache for GM as he tries >to determine all of the side skills being learned and for players as they >attempt to keep track of it. >Leon Kirshtein That's the point of forums! : ) Cheers, Jim Lawrie. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 08:12:48 +1100 From: "Jim & Peta Lawrie" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training >2) What happens when a character is no longer able to gain benefit from training included stats or skills? Is he still forced to invest "waste hours" in them, or can he 'optimize' his training regimen? Even before this point, I think my players would feel hosed by such a system, since it effectively makes training a specific skill take twice as long, with very little tangible benefit (unless they're doing a LOT of training -- training stats takes a long time, even at "full" speed). Ahh, I didn't make myself very clear in the original post on that. I would work out the usage on a per case basis, obviously if they're at Max STR (or whatever) they won't be 'spending' time 'training' in it because they're already at optimum fitness, so I'd just do without that particular stat training and throw the 10% into the main skill training. I'd keep a note of my rulings (a good habit) so I could refer to it each time some training came up. Honestly, how often do PC's train anyway? Not often. >Since I'm generally in favor of modular complexity and allowing each GM to customize and prioritize an individual ideal 'realism vs ease-of-play' balance, I have no objection to such a system being presented as an option, but, personally, I'm sure I'd never use it. >Trent I invariably run campaigns, and not scenario's (although I'm not infering you do, or that they are in any way inferior). My PC's would welcome interaction set in a training yard using a believable rules set, I'd like training to be fun and part of their unusual world, not many people spend so much time getting in such dire danger through choice. Mainly, I think that such training is probably only often available to city dwellers, although certain 'barbarian' or 'nomad' training analogues pop into mind, such as warrior houses (the Red Branch etc) and various trials and rituals that go for extended periods. My PCs also GM, so by definition they aren't rules-phobic, I have very little tolerance for people who leave all the work to the GM! I like to enjoy the game too, and if I'm going to write a scenario, administer the hordes of various NPCs and critters and present a believable/fun/mysterious/frightening/challenging world, they'd better be able to keep track of their own FP! : ) Cheers, Jim *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 17:41:25 EDT From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training, the Posey solution In a message dated 10/26/00 , someone wrote: << See, I knew someone would have the formula. > >> Well, I'm glad to see that there is _indeed_ a gearheaded solution to the construction of the Ponderous Tome. Hopefully I can get 'em to print me out a copy, so I won't have to jump hip deep into _algebra_. -Ken- (kicking himself for never getting past the PEMDAS method ) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2000 18:38:24 -0400 From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training Jim Lawrie wrote: > Honestly, how often do PC's train anyway? Not often. In my experience, PCs train as much as they're allowed to. Since I structured my campaign in a 'Pendragon' mode with lots of abstracted downtime, they would fairly frequently get to spend a couple hundred research/training hours -- not enough to increase stats, but enough to get most of their 'valuable' skills up into the 50-75% range. The relatively quick advancement this allowed was balanced by the fact that we didn't play very often -- the game calendar and real-life calendar were virtually in-synch (5 game years over 3 real years). Mainly, I >think that such training is probably only often available to city dwellers, >although certain 'barbarian' or 'nomad' training analogues pop into mind, >such as warrior houses (the Red Branch etc) and various trials and rituals >that go for extended periods. It seems like you're being awfully literal in your definition of 'training.' I see it as any situation where someone is operating under the guidance of someone with superior skill/knowldege; very rarely would this involve actually going to a school or academy, or study under a professional 'skill tutor.' When a Primitive Hunter receives training, I assume he's actually out hunting with the Master Hunter, not hanging around a gymnasium Sneaking and Hiding for weeks on end. As I've said, though, I abstracted most of this. If you're running training sessions in-game, you're obviously going to be in the market for a lot more detail than I needed. > My PCs also GM, so by definition they aren't rules-phobic, I have very >little tolerance for people who leave all the work to the GM! I like to >enjoy the game too, and if I'm going to write a scenario, administer the >hordes of various NPCs and critters and present a >believable/fun/mysterious/frightening/challenging world, they'd better be >able to keep track of their own FP! : ) A nice sentiment, but I didn't have a whole lot of choice -- all of my players (rules-phobic or not) were my friends outside-of-game, many of them since childhood. I tried to keep the rules-burden as light as possible so they wouldn't decide they wanted to play some "easy" game (like 'Vampire' or D&D) instead. Trent *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Oct 2000 09:54:03 +0200 From: Alain RAMEAU Subject: [RQ-RULES] Skill Training and characteristics increase In my house rules, I use the following system to represent the related increase of characteristics when improving skills : For STR, DEX, CON, and even APP, an increase roll [(max carac - current carac)x5%, +1D3-1 if successful] can be granted to the player when any skill from the related category reaches 75% for primary charcteristics, and 100% for secondary characteristics. For exemple, if the player reaches Dodge 75%, he is allowed a roll to try to increase his DEX (primary characteristic for Agility skills) . And when he reaches 100%, he is allowed a roll to try to increase STR (secondary characteristic for Agility skills). Alain Gloranthan Wars at http://karamo.nexen.net/glowar/rq.htm *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 09:01:37 -0400 From: "safety/maranci.net@mail.maranci.net" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Detect spells & panels *Tal Meta wrote: > A spell spirit with Endurance and Detect Fatigue could probably be a > cheaper work-around, though. YEEP! Detect *FATIGUE*!? Detect a condition, rather than a substance? Jeeze. This opens up all sorts of possibilities, particularly for my Imbue magic item creation rules. But I imagine it could be abused...still, I like it. On a different note, interesting news: I just received a mailing from the Arisia convention (held in Boston, MA on January 12-14), and they've apparently taken my suggestions and implemented not one, but TWO panels of interest to RQers. There's "RIP: The Legion of Extinct RPGs", and also "RuneQuest Roundtable", subtitled "RuneQuest players get together to talk about their systems and how they've customized the rules." I'm actually pretty surprised that they decided to do both. Anyway, I'm a regular panelist at the con, and I'm definitely going to sign up for both events (with any luck I can moderate the "RIP" panel). Is anyone else going to be there? If you're in the area, I'd definitely recommend the con. Attendance is usually in the 2,000 person range, I believe, and it's quite varied and friendly. ->Peter - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Maranci peter@maranci.net Woonsocket, RI The New Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying!: http://www.maranci.net/rq.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:31:15 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] RE: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #104 > Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:09:26 EDT > From: SPerrin@aol.com > Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Re: RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #103 > > In a message dated 10/20/00 1:51:44 AM Pacific Daylight > Time, alexanl@tin.it > writes: > > > > > No, D&D... Rolemaster at least uses the same mechanic > for everything... > > ;) > > > > > Actually, the new edition of D&D uses the same mechanic for > just about > everything... Except for among other things avoiding going insane on contacting other planes. They use d100 roles for a few things still. And the amount of damage done is still not a subset of the standard resolution unlike Rolemaster or Earthdawn. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:41:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Terje Tollisen Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Skill training > Well, per the rules (current skill) hours training = 1 pt > increase*; iterated over and over to your target number > (46+47+48...66). I'm sure there's a relatively simple > formula to represent this, but I haven't done > this sort of math since high school so I surely don't > remember it. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't 1 pt increase for research? I don't have the rules handy, but I believe training gives 2 points actumatic increase (or a dice roll). - -Terry Tollisen, lurker ______________________________________________ FREE Personalized Email at Mail.com Sign up at http://www.mail.com/?sr=signup *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V3 #106 ************************************* *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.