From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.ient.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #38 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.imagiconline.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, April 19 2001 Volume 04 : Number 038 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Giants RE: [RQ-RULES] Giants [RQ-RULES] big characters have also been a problem [RQ-RULES] spirits The Return of those pesky Jolanti (was Re: [RQ-RULES] Giants) Re: [RQ-RULES] Giants [RQ-RULES] Cthulhu Dark Ages RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 00:45:37 +0300 (EEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marko_Per=E4l=E4?= Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Giants > I think the SIZe parameters changed from RQ2 to RQ3 and were never > very good at translating SIZe to height for giants, anyway. How big > is a giant (for example the giant in Snake Pipe Hollow or the > kneeling giant in Balastor's Barracks? Are the SIZe and STRength and > CONstitution and AP and damage values, which are published, > believable? Are gaming parameters going to interfere with "willing > suspension of disbelief?" You forgot to mention carrying rates and weapon sizes. I have a problem with a character, who has has SIZ 24 and wields a shortsword. When SIZ increases beyond 24 the limits of carrying stuff and the sizes of weapons simply gets ridiculous. That could mean that a 16 meters high giant could carry only about half a ton without getting exhausted. Weapons for big characters have also been a problem, because e.g. a SIZ 36 great troll would probably handle a shortsword like a dagger and greatsword as a broadsword. What about greatswords for great trolls? They have been forgotten altogether. Only weapon for large creatures that comes to my mind is giants club. How can they be ruled? I have no idea how dam, AP, enc and range increase with big weapons. Also I don't know when certain weapon doesn't fit its normal category and had to be used with the skill of a smaller weapon. When the creature has become so large he has to use a great axe with the skill of a hand axe? Ideas, comments? Rules overlooked? Marko Perälä perala@cc.joensuu.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:49:20 -0400 From: Robert Stancliff Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Giants > Brad Furst wrote: > I think the SIZe parameters changed from RQ2 to RQ3 and were > never very good at translating SIZe to height for giants, > anyway. How big is a giant (for example the giant in Snake > Pipe Hollow or the kneeling giant in Balastor's Barracks? Both giants are in the 6m to 8m range IIRC. There is no published comparison that I know of. RQ3 made a chart of SIZ to weight, but it was a general chart which applied to 4 legged beasts just as well. > Are the SIZe and STRength and CONstitution and AP and damage > values, which are published, believable? I have had no problems using them since all of the published giant stats I am aware of are the smallest species. These tend to be rather evil or nasty and often have ties to Chaos. I don't think stats were ever published for the big giants like Gonn Orta, and the Cradle giants are almost the size of mountains. > Are gaming parameters going to interfere with "willing > suspension of disbelief?" Hard to say. In our world nothing taller than about 9 feet can walk on two legs, but in a world of magic, who really cares? > If we know the RQ SIZe of a creature like a giant, do we have > a good idea of its height and mass? If you have a good calculator, you can take the SIZ to the Mass table in the Player's Book (?) to interpolate the mass. If you double the height of a human, then you essentially double the other two dimensions also... so a 4m giant weighs about 800kg. The next step requires logarithms or recursive approximations... I'm not in a position to solve the equation right now but it is based on the approximate proportion that "2 x Height : 2 x 2 x 2 x Mass". I -think- that this yields the equation "Height Mod = log base2 (Mass / 100kg) / 3 + 1". I also think I remember that "log base2 (Mass) = ln (Mass) / ln (2)". Give this a try and see what you get. My suspicion is that the SIZ listed will give you a figure barely twice the height of a man, but I have never tried this particular experiment. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:44:00 -0700 From: Brad Furst Subject: [RQ-RULES] big characters have also been a problem Marko Perälä >You forgot to mention carrying rates and weapon sizes. I have a problem >with a character, who has has SIZ 24 and wields a shortsword. When SIZ >increases beyond 24 the limits of carrying stuff and the sizes of weapons >simply gets ridiculous. That could mean that a 16 meters high giant >could carry only about half a ton without getting exhausted. Weapons for >big characters have also been a problem, because e.g. a SIZ 36 great troll >would probably handle a shortsword like a dagger and greatsword as a >broadsword. What about greatswords for great trolls? They have been >forgotten altogether. Only weapon for large creatures that comes to my >mind is giants club. How can they be ruled? I have no idea how dam, AP, >enc and range increase with big weapons. Also I don't know when certain >weapon doesn't fit its normal category and had to be used with the skill >of a smaller weapon. When the creature has become so large he has to use >a great axe with the skill of a hand axe? Ideas, comments? Rules overlooked? Maybe, instead of a weapons table for damage with a modifier for STR+SIZ, we should have a table of damage for SIZ+STR and a simple modifier for weapon. Isn't selection of weapon (by the player for the character) often done for irrelevant reasons? Don't the rules also make it too difficult for a larger-than-medium character to use armor of the same type as his medium-sized companion, because the ENCumbrance of the next larger size of armor has increased at a greater rate than the STR+CON fatigue-endurance attribute? Brad Furst esoteric@teleport.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 15:50:49 -0700 From: Brad Furst Subject: [RQ-RULES] spirits Quick. Who remembers (please tell me) the dice for INT and POW of an Intellect Spirit? Power Spirit (no INT, of course, POW only)? 2d6+3? Brad Furst esoteric@teleport.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:11:51 EDT From: MurfNMurf@aol.com Subject: The Return of those pesky Jolanti (was Re: [RQ-RULES] Giants) - --part1_f2.9771193.2810cab7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey gang, About a year or so ago I was wondering here on the list about the height=20 of a _typical_ Jolanti, as described in the Glorantha Bestiary. No height wa= s=20 mentioned in the write-up, and when I asked the around, everyone seemed to=20 have a different idea. Well, I figured since Sandy's name is prominently displayed on the book's= =20 cover,to go right to the horse's mouth, as it were, and ask him; having only= =20 recently acquired his email address. He replied: Technically, there are no "average" Jolanti, since each one=20 was individually carved or fitted together by dwarf artisans. Typically=20 they're pretty big, though. (No doubt to make up for dwarf height-inferiorit= y=20 issues.) I think the one in the bestiary was supposed to be around 3-4m tall= .=20 I wondered whether, assuming a 3-4m height for a Jolanti, would the stats= =20 provided simply be _doubled_ for a 6-8m tall version. Sandy offered the following:Actually, a Jolanti twice as tall would weigh= =20 8 times as much. Because of the way the Size tables work in RuneQuest, this=20 means that a creature approximately twice as big would have about 24=20 additional points of STR & SIZ.=20 =A0=A0=A0 Each 8 points of SIZ doubles the total mass -- a creature of SIZ 2= 4=20 weighs twice as much as one of SIZ 16. A creature of SIZ 32 weighs twice as=20 much as one of SIZ 24. I hope this makes sense.=20 =A0 Example: a 12-foot tall human would be around SIZ 40, and he'd weigh 8 times= =20 as much as a 6-footer (who would be SIZ 16, presumably). Using the example of the SIZ 16 guy being SIZ 40 at twice the height was=20 an excellent illustration of the=20 idea for someone who's never been very skilled mathematically, I determined=20 that if our book-average 4m high Jolanti has STR 50 and SIZ 30, it would hav= e=20 a STR of 74 & SIZ of 54 at 8m.=20 =A0=A0I wondered if I was doing the math right. If increasing the thing's ba= sic=20 4m height to to 12m would _still_ use the same x8 thing? So at 12m, Mr'=20 Jolanti would have STR 98, and SIZ 78, then, and the 24m high Jolanti=20 (yikes!) would, in turn have a very frightening STR 122 and SIZ 102?=20 Note that in the above example, I have incorrectly doubled the height of=20 oue hypothertical Jolanti. I offered 4m, 8m, 12m, 24m...When it should've=20 been 4m, 8m, 16m, 32m, 64m, etc. What can I say? My math can get kinda=20 _wonky_ at times :) Sandy offered some more advice: probably only the SIZ should use the +24=20 thing. Jolanti are supposed to be really strong, even for their size.=20 =A0 Since a 4m tall human would be SIZ 40, probably the Jolanti in the bestiary=20 are 3m tall. So if a 3m tall Jolanti is SIZ 30, a 6m tall one would be about= =20 SIZ 55 (double the height for every 23-27 additional SIZ). Then a 12m tall=20 one would be SIZ 80 or so. And adding another 25 points to SIZ 105 would be=20 24m tall.=20 I'm sure that this information is easily usable with standard giants; not= =20 just Jolanti.=20 Of course, I dont _really_ have any idea how you'd go about determining=20 the weight of something that is _less_ than double the original's height=20 (like the weight of a 6m Jolanti compared to a 4m Jolanti).. Ah, there's the rub! -Ken Murphy-=20 =20 =20 - --part1_f2.9771193.2810cab7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable  Hey gang,
  About a year or so ago I was wondering here on the list abo= ut the height=20
of a _typical_ Jolanti, as described in the Glorantha Bestiary. No heigh= t was=20
mentioned in the write-up, and when I asked the around, everyone seemed=20= to=20
have a different idea.
  Well, I figured since Sandy's name is prominently displayed= on the book's=20
cover,to go right to the horse's mouth, as it were, and ask him; having=20= only=20
recently acquired his email address.
  He replied: Technically, there are no "average"= Jolanti, since each one=20
was individually carved or fitted together by dwarf artisans. Typically=20
they're pretty big, though. (No doubt to make up for dwarf height-inferi= ority=20
issues.) I think the one in the bestiary was supposed to be around 3-4m=20= tall.=20

  I wondered whether, assuming a 3-4m height for=20= a Jolanti, would the stats=20
provided simply be _doubled_ for a 6-8m tall version.
  Sandy offered the following:Actually, a Jolanti= twice as tall would weigh=20
8 times as much. Because of the way the Size tables work in RuneQuest, t= his=20
means that a creature approximately twice as big would have about 24=20
additional points of STR & SIZ.
=A0=A0=A0 Each 8 points of SIZ doubles the to= tal mass -- a creature of SIZ 24=20
weighs twice as much as one of SIZ 16. A creature of SIZ 32 weighs twice= as=20
much as one of SIZ 24. I hope this makes sense.
=A0
Example: a 12-foot tall human would be around SIZ 40, and he= 'd weigh 8 times=20
as much as a 6-footer (who would be SIZ 16, presumably).
  Using the example of the SIZ 16 guy being SIZ 4= 0 at twice the height was=20
an excellent illustration of the=20
idea for someone who's never been very skilled mathematically, I determi= ned=20
that if our book-average 4m high Jolanti has STR 50 and SIZ 30, it would= have=20
a STR of 74 & SIZ of 54 at 8m.=20
=A0=A0I wondered if I was doing the math right. If increasing the thing'= s basic=20
4m height to to 12m would _still_ use the same x8 thing? So at 12m, Mr'=20
Jolanti would have STR 98, and SIZ 78, then, and the 24m high Jolanti= =20
(yikes!) would, in turn have a very frightening  STR 122 and SI= Z 102?=20
  Note that in the above example, I have incorrectly doubled=20= the height of=20
oue hypothertical Jolanti. I offered 4m, 8m, 12m, 24m...When it should'v= e=20
been 4m, 8m, 16m, 32m, 64m, etc. What can I say? My math can get kinda=20
_wonky_ at times :)
  Sandy offered some more advice: probably only t= he SIZ should use the +24=20
thing. Jolanti are supposed to be really strong, even for their size.
=A0
Since a 4m tall human would be SIZ 40, probably the Jolanti=20= in the bestiary=20
are 3m tall. So if a 3m tall Jolanti is SIZ 30, a 6m tall one would be a= bout=20
SIZ 55 (double the height for every 23-27 additional SIZ). Then a 12m ta= ll=20
one would be SIZ 80 or so. And adding another 25 points to SIZ 105 would= be=20
24m tall.
  I'm sure that this information is easily usable= with standard giants; not=20
just Jolanti.=20
  Of course, I dont _really_ have any idea how you'd go about= determining=20
the weight of something that is _less_ than double the original's height= =20
(like the weight of a 6m Jolanti compared to a 4m Jolanti)..
  Ah, there's the rub!
 -Ken Murphy-=20
  



- --part1_f2.9771193.2810cab7_boundary-- *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:58:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Newman Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Giants For weapon sizes, you could borrow an idea from D&D3, categorizing weapons into Tiny, Small, Medium, and Large. - - If you're using a weapon that's in a smaller category than you are, you can use it one-handed and get no special bonus except normal damage bonus, but you can use it with less penalty in your off hand. - - If you're using a weapon equal to your size category, then it's one handed for you, and you can wield it two-handed for 1.5x damage bonus. - - If you're using a weapon one size larger than you, it must be two handed and you get 1.5x damage bonus. - - Two sizes larger than you is too big to use. Humans are medium, halflings are small, minotaurs are large. Shade and sweet water, Brian - Blackberry - lepus@nwlink.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 02:17:48 +0200 From: "Stephane Gesbert" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Cthulhu Dark Ages On a somewhat different note, please have a look at the "Cthulhu Dark Ages"s site at http://home.wanadoo.nl/s.gesbert... Cthulhu Dark Ages (CDA) supplements Call of Cthulhu (CoC), but sets the clock of the game back 1000 years, right into the middle ages! The supplement (in the form of downloadble MSWord chapters) draws from the CoC game system, and thus indirectly from RuneQuest (RQ), which I used for inspiration. The big difference of course is that CDA is not set in a Fantasy Glorantha (for instance), but rather in our own world's grim Dark Ages, which in turn is cast into Lovecraft's cosmic horrors. The RQ afficionados will probably recognize the RQ undertones in some parts of CDA. Maybe CDA could inspire some of you to introduce Lovecraftian-types scares and atmosphere to your adventures and campaigns. Once thing still missing in CDA are scenarios, so if any of you likes the idea of transposing one of his or her scenarios to the CDA world, let me know... In any case let me know what you think of CDA, either on this list or directly to s.gesbert@wanadoo.nl. If you really liked CDA you can also place a vote on the top 100 sites (top banner on the home page). Regards, Stephane. Have fun, be scared! *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #38 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.imagiconline.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.