From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.ient.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #58 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, May 29 2001 Volume 04 : Number 058 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS Re: [RQ-RULES] Weapon Category skills [RQ-RULES] Re : Weapon Category skills Re: [RQ-RULES] Weapon Category skills [RQ-RULES] Weapon Category skills [RQ-RULES] DEX and db Re: [RQ-RULES] Some spells for criticism [Long] RE: [RQ-RULES] Weapon Category skills RE: [RQ-RULES] Some spells for criticism [Long] RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 01:11:33 -0700 From: "Steve Perrin" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Weapon Category skills Use of scimitar and broadsword the same. That's close enough to true to go with. Granted, there are ways you can use a scimitar and broadsword that are different from how the other weapon is used, but you can use a scimitar like a broadsword and a broadsword like a scimitar. Experts in the other discipline might point and laugh, but you could get the job done. There should be penalties from maul to staff, though, since the balance of each weapon is entirely different. And there is probably no more than a 10% difference in Sai and Dagger. Granted, there is a lot you can do with a sai that you can't with a dagger, but you can get by using a sai like a dagger. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Martin" To: "RQ List" Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 6:08 PM Subject: [RQ-RULES] Weapon Category skills > Okay guys, > > A quick survey. I just noticed that in 3E, the characters are really > learning 1-handed sword, not Scimitar or Broadsword (for example) and > that they can use the skill they pick up with one for the other. > > This seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me, though I don't claim any > real knowledge in the area. How do you run your games? Do you apply > any penalties for switching from Staff to Maul? > > What about Dagger to Sai, where there is a 10% difference in Base %? > Can a character with no bonuses take Dagger at 15%, increase 5% and then > switch to Sai with a 20% skill? > > Please let me know your thoughts and/or house rules on the subject. > > Thanks, > > Jeremy > > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 28 May 2001 10:45:36 +0200 From: Alain RAMEAU Subject: [RQ-RULES] Re : Weapon Category skills There are already many different skills in RQ, so I think the 1H Sword skill is a good compromise between the general "Close Combat" with all weapon skill and having different skills for 1H Broadsword and 1H Bastard Sword. Having some malus if the weapon, while in the same category, is somewhat different could be a good solution, but how would you handle the fact that the character would improve that secondary weapon without improving the primary one. By reducing the malus ? This would create actually one different skill per weapon. I know the 1H Sword skill is probably not the most realistic one (I think there was already a discussion on that (I don't remenber which list) some time ago), but It's working well IMG. Alain. http://karamo.nexen.net/glowar/rqgb.htm - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:08:55 +0800 From: Jeremy Martin Subject: [RQ-RULES] Weapon Category skills Okay guys, A quick survey. I just noticed that in 3E, the characters are really learning 1-handed sword, not Scimitar or Broadsword (for example) and that they can use the skill they pick up with one for the other. This seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me, though I don't claim any real knowledge in the area. How do you run your games? Do you apply any penalties for switching from Staff to Maul? What about Dagger to Sai, where there is a 10% difference in Base %? Can a character with no bonuses take Dagger at 15%, increase 5% and then switch to Sai with a 20% skill? Please let me know your thoughts and/or house rules on the subject. Thanks, Jeremy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 01:16:37 -0700 From: "Steve Perrin" Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Weapon Category skills Two-handed is different from one-handed. There can be a progression, but the translation is not immediate. Same for axes and hammers. I know from experience that switching from one handed to two handed is quite a jump in orientation. I would probably dump somebody back to basic unless they are over 40% better than basic with a weapon, then subtract 40%. So if someone starts with 25% with Broadsword, works his way up to 75% with broadsword (which would include 1H Bastard Sword) and then started using a Bastard Sword 2-handed, his ability would be 35%. I might let him take double experience (double the result of the 1d6-2 roll) until he matched his level of expertise with the other form, though. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Martin" To: Sent: Sunday, May 27, 2001 9:58 PM Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Weapon Category skills > Also, what about going from 1-handed to 2-handed, with a Battle Axe, for > instance. Do you revert to base skill, half best skill, -25%...? > > Since you could follow Scimitar => Bastard Sword 1H => Bastard Sword 2H => > Greatsword, would you use the same rules for someone trained in Scimitar > picking up a Greatsword? How about Warhammer to Great Hammer? > > Thanks for your thoughts. > > Jeremy > > > Jeremy Martin wrote: > > > Okay guys, > > > > A quick survey. I just noticed that in 3E, the characters are really > > learning 1-handed sword, not Scimitar or Broadsword (for example) and > > that they can use the skill they pick up with one for the other. > > > > This seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me, though I don't claim any > > real knowledge in the area. How do you run your games? Do you apply > > any penalties for switching from Staff to Maul? > > > > What about Dagger to Sai, where there is a 10% difference in Base %? > > Can a character with no bonuses take Dagger at 15%, increase 5% and then > > switch to Sai with a 20% skill? > > > > Please let me know your thoughts and/or house rules on the subject. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jeremy > > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 17:51:40 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Weapon Category skills > Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 09:08:55 +0800 > From: Jeremy Martin > Okay guys, > > A quick survey. I just noticed that in 3E, the characters > are really > learning 1-handed sword, not Scimitar or Broadsword (for > example) and > that they can use the skill they pick up with one for the other. > > This seems somewhat counter-intuitive to me, though I don't > claim any > real knowledge in the area. How do you run your games? Do > you apply > any penalties for switching from Staff to Maul? > > What about Dagger to Sai, where there is a 10% difference in Base %? > Can a character with no bonuses take Dagger at 15%, > increase 5% and then > switch to Sai with a 20% skill? Land of Ninja's Base skills table seems to assume that With the exception of Swords one learns some or all of the weapons individually. I'd Treat Sai and Jitte as being members of a Swordbreaker category base 10% along with the Vivamort Horned Mace. Nunchaku should be 5% for Gaijin and thus are 1h flail. Tessen and Tonfa are individual skills each I'd give tetsubo the 5/15/10 base chance to keep it in Maul. Sodergarami and Mancatchers should be in a seperate Mancatcher category. Note that 1Hnd weapon skills are also with a specific hand. I.e. Shield Parry is normally short for Offhand Shield parry. > Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 12:58:21 +0800 > From: Jeremy Martin > > Also, what about going from 1-handed to 2-handed, with a > Battle Axe, for > instance. Do you revert to base skill, half best skill, -25%...? Base skill. > Since you could follow Scimitar => Bastard Sword 1H => > Bastard Sword 2H => > Greatsword, would you use the same rules for someone > trained in Scimitar > picking up a Greatsword? Yes they need to learn 2hnd Sword seperately. One could as I have seen done use a modified version of the 2nd Ed rules, to whit all weapons are different skills but one can learn the differences for another weapon in the same category for 2 hours training per percentage point you have in the skill you are converting [it was 15% per week I seenm to remember.] Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:33:24 +0300 (EEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marko_Per=E4l=E4?= Subject: [RQ-RULES] DEX and db A thought about damage bonus came to my mind. It is calculated using STR and SIZ, but I think DEX should have some part too. If a person makes firewood with an axe and hits first slowly and then faster with the same strength, the axe cuts deeper. This is because of momentum, which is calculated speed times mass. SIZ and STR contribute to mass, but speed is all about DEX. Another example is that superfast guy in Marvel-comics. He has strength of an ordinary person, but with his speed he can create same momentum as Hulk's punch. Based on this I suggest that db should be calculated primarily by STR + DEX. Since creatures don't use their full size in attacks except when landing on someone, their role in this should be diminished. However ignoring SIZ would greatly diminish db:s of big and clumsy creatures, so I'd like to know opinions of others on how to handle it. Maybe the base damage of attacks of big monsters should be increased. Comments, thoughts, ideas? Marko Perälä perala@cc.joensuu.fi *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 17:58:12 -0400 From: Tal Meta Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Some spells for criticism [Long] Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > Dyre’s Inimitable Tailor > 1 point spirit spell, instant, touch You could make this one variable, and have it make alterations sufficient to change between size levels (small, medium, large, & troll (from the armor size category table)). The argument could also be made for having this be an enchantment, since it makes a permanent change in reality... Everything else I kinda liked, and will probably add to my own lists, eventually. :) - -- talmeta@cybercomm.net - Heretic, Dilettante, & God-Machine ICQ - 12594453 AIM - talmeta Homepage - *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 12:30:39 -0400 From: Robert Stancliff Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Weapon Category skills > Jeremy wrote: > A quick survey. I just noticed that in 3E, the characters > are really learning 1-handed sword, not Scimitar or Broad- > sword (for example) and that they can use the skill they > pick up with one for the other. RQ3 does not apply any penalty to switch between weapons in a group except, perhaps, a temporary penalty for adjusting to the balance of the new weapon. This is temporary in the sense of going away after one battle or after an hour of practice. I don't remember the exact rules on the subject. I may be confusing with RQ4. That said, there are errors on the weapon chart. Staff is not appropriate for the clubs and maces group. It is better to isolate it as a separate group or treat it as a 2-hand long spear without a pointed tip. You don't have to stab someone with the point of a spear to hurt them, and I suspect that a staff style is very appropriate to spear fighting. When you compare oriental spear and staff techniques, the similarity is strong. > What about Dagger to Sai, where there is a 10% difference > in Base %? Can a character with no bonuses take Dagger at > 15%, increase 5% and then switch to Sai with a 20% skill? The difference in base skills is due to the item not being a part of the default culture that the chart was written for. Base skill can change between regions or races... examples Aldrya in the creatures book or trolls in troll pack. All unfamiliar skills to a person or culture start at 0% or 5%, Sai included. An Orlanthi would consider a Sai to be a weird dagger with oversized hand guards. > Also, what about going from 1-handed to 2-handed, with a > Battle Axe, for instance. Do you revert to base skill, > half best skill, -25%...? RQ3 said revert to base skill. RQ4 said convert the skill (minus modifiers) by 1/2, 1/3, or 1/4, depending on the severity of the conversion. 1-hand sword to 2-hand sword is a 1/2 mod. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 From: Robert Stancliff Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Some spells for criticism [Long] As I was writing comments, I realized that I had a strong exception to almost all of your spirit spells, as written. Spirit spells are intended for basic or primitive concepts: be strong/quick/pretty, have more damage/accuracy/skill, turn weapon to flame, be hard to see, heal, hurt. Your spells have a high degree of refined intent and require a more intelligent guiding force behind them. They are often good divine spells, and occasionally good sorcery spells. I will keep a copy around to show my players. > Dyre's Inimitable Tailor > 1 point spirit spell, instant, touch This should be sorcery if it can wear off, or a ritual spell from the god of tailors and seamstresses otherwise. > Fire Shuriken > 2 point spirit spell, range 30 meters This is Fire Arrow cast on a thrown weapon... perfectly legal, but without the extra rule about the physical missile still affecting creatures immune to fire attacks. > Mirror, Mirror > 1 point spirit spell, temporal, touch This is a sorcery Change to , though you could make it a spirit spell instead. > Demon Trap > 1 point spirit enchantment, ranged, permanent. This sounds like the rare magic item, 'spirit chain', from the RQ2 Borderlands pack. It freezes spirits in a radius so that they can be attacked or fled from. I don't recall the details. > Secure Correspondence > 2 point spirit enchantment, This sounds like a divine spell from a messenger or clandestine cult. > Bonds of the Past > 1 point spirit spell, instant, touch This also sounds like divine magic. > Lungs of the Herald > 1 point spirit spell, temporal, touch I believe this is already a divine spell. > Opening the Tome of the Animals Mind > 1 point spirit spell, temporal, touch There are already some 'speak with animal' divine spells similar in effect, if not intent. > Through the Eyes of the Dead > 1 point spirit spell, temporal, touch This is an interesting variation of a Lankhor Mhy knowledge spell (Reconstruction?). > Vladmir's Little Green Amulet > Variable point spirit enchantment, Duration indefinite until > activated, then 30 days. You have to wonder how Uleria initiates avoid being fertile while worshiping a fertility goddess. I still think Greg got Fertility and Harmony hopelessly mixed up, and that Love is the expression of Harmony. My main point is that this also sounds like divine magic. > Writing on the Tablet of the Mind > Variable point spirit enchantment, This is definitely not spirit magic. It could be sorcery or divine without much trouble. > Move Tree > Aldrya, Flamal. > 3 point divine spell, 25 meter range, reusable, non-stackable. I wouldn't be surprised if Aldrya has something like this. It is simpler than Oaken Warrior. > Personal Immolation > Lodril, Firshala, Zorak Zoran. > 2 point divine spell, temporal, reusable, non-stackable. Nice spell, but too strong for Zorak Zoran. It should be reserved for real fire gods. Note that Lodril has fire spear, and this is very similar. > Sex Change > Trickster, Androgeus > 3 point divine spell, reusable, non-stackable. To interpret 'King of Sartar', this is an action of the Change/Movement rune. Trickster has a change spell which can do much of this, and is either an Illusion or an aspect of Disorder that truly causes the change. The personality changes are too strong, and should be reconsidered. > The Emperor's New Clothes > Trickster, Puppeteers > 1 point divine spell, temporal, reusable, non-stackable. Donandar, or Puppeteers, have an Invisibility divine spell, but it would be targeted to one object, not all possessions worn (a GM might allow this anyway). A good Illusion could certainly give the impression that someone was naked, and would be a mean parlor trick, but the caster would have to provide the unseen details. > The People's Revolutionary Silhouette > Trickster > 1 point divine spell, temporal, reusable, non-stackable. Certainly a visual illusion. > Bloodlust > Shargash, Blood Sun > 3 point divine spell, temporal, reusable, non-stackable. Nasty spell, sounds like a chaos feature. Consider giving it to Urraine (sp?) the Bad Wind, the evil berserker cult. I might suggest changing it to 1 in 3 points given. > Yinkin's Blessing > Yinkin > 3 point divine spell, temporal, reusable, non-stackable. Nice effect, not too strong. > An Excellent Use For 4 Mice And A Pumpkin > Trickster, Teelo Norri > 2 point divine spell, Duration until midnight, reusable, non-stackable. Really not Gloranthan, though several sorcery Change spells could give the effect. > Omerta > Thief God, Danfive Xaron > 1 point divine enchantment, one use, non-stackable. Give to assassin and spy cults. Also a good chaos spell. There is a spell to resist truth spells, but it doesn't kill the recipient. > Whispers of the Circling Winds > Orlanth Thunderous, > 2 point divine enchantment, one use, stackable, permanent. Can you say 'Jack of Shadows' by Roger Zelazny? This would give an incredible range to Orlanth's teleport spell. It may need to be more expensive, just for that reason, but I could see allowing it as written. > Steed of Vengeance > Babester Gor > 3 point divine spell, reusable, stackable, range touch, duration 30 > minutes. This sounds like a temporary version of Sir Ethilrist's Black Horse Troop. Since most mounts have CON over 23, the likelihood of death is usually 5%. I will show this to my players that wanted to go to hell and get some nightmares to ride. Bob Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #58 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.