From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.ient.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #59 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Thursday, May 31 2001 Volume 04 : Number 059 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Permanent Divine Spells [RQ-RULES] SIZ and damage bonus [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Demon Trap [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Mirror, Mirror [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Bonds of the Past [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Lungs of the Herald [RQ-RULES] =?iso-8859-1?Q?=5BRQ-RULES=5D_Spell_criticism_:_Dyre=92s_Inimitable_Tailor?= [RQ-RULES] Spell System Metalogic [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Opening the Tome of the Animals Mind [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Writing on the Tablet of the Mind [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Personal Immolation [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : The Emperor's New Clothes [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Vladmir's Little Green Amulet [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : The People's Revolutionary Silhouette [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Bloodlust [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Sex Change RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 11:26:36 +0800 From: Jeremy Martin Subject: [RQ-RULES] Permanent Divine Spells Hey there, First off, thanks Adam for some very interesting spells, and Robert for some good commentary on them - that helped a lot as far as which ones I might be including in my campaign. The idea of sacrificing POW for permanent effects appeals to me greatly. Thus I was very happy to see the Whispers of the Circling Winds spell in your list (though figuring out when everyone within 5 miles mentions your name will be a pain...). "Whispers of the Circling Winds Orlanth Thunderous, 2 point divine enchantment, one use, stackable, permanent. Caster hears everything said for 1 minute after his name was said if within 5 miles." I'm not yet Illuminated enough to include Chaos Gift or Chaos Feature in my players' potential arsenal, but sacrificing POW togain similar permanent powers would be interesting. Does anyone else have some one-use Divine spells that grant permanent effects? How would you go about letting an Aldryami make a permanent Chameleon cloak? Thanks, Jeremy *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 2001 09:44:31 +0200 From: Alain RAMEAU Subject: [RQ-RULES] SIZ and damage bonus I think that from the beginning, the distinction between SIZ and STR is not necessarily relevant, especially as SIZ represent mass, not height. For most creatures, big ones are strong ones. So using STR + SIZ as a modifier is very close to using STRx2, except maybe for human like creatures which are allowed a wider range between their STR and SIZ. Alain. http://karamo.nexen.net/glowar/rqgb.htm _____________________________________ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 21:33:24 +0300 (EEST) From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marko_Per=E4l=E4?= Subject: [RQ-RULES] DEX and db A thought about damage bonus came to my mind. It is calculated using STR and SIZ, but I think DEX should have some part too. If a person makes firewood with an axe and hits first slowly and then faster with the same strength, the axe cuts deeper. This is because of momentum, which is calculated speed times mass. SIZ and STR contribute to mass, but speed is all about DEX. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:34 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Demon Trap > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > > Demon Trap > > 1 point spirit enchantment, ranged, permanent. > This sounds like the rare magic item, 'spirit chain', > from the RQ2 > Borderlands pack. It freezes spirits in a radius so that > they can be > attacked or fled from. I don't recall the details. Spirit Chain is a one use area effect items and prevent any spirit in the area from disembodying or if disembodied from moving. It is thus much more powerful. And this sort of effect feels like it should be in a shamans repertoire. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:32 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Mirror, Mirror > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > Mirror, Mirror > > 1 point spirit spell, temporal, touch > This is a sorcery Change to , though you > could make it > a spirit spell instead. Sorcery has Shapechange (species) to (species) but I can't remember a Transform (substance) to (substance) Whether a similar effect is available within Form/Set (Substance) is going to depend on the substance and would be permanent. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:35 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Bonds of the Past > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > > > Bonds of the Past > > 1 point spirit spell, instant, touch > This also sounds like divine magic. Its a simple law of contagion effect. The nearest Divine spell is Lankhor Mhy's Knowledge, which is vastly more informative. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:37 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Lungs of the Herald > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > > > Lungs of the Herald > > 1 point spirit spell, temporal, touch > I believe this is already a divine spell. Wind Words, which is the nearest thing I can think of is a listening enhancement. And to be honest is one of the least used Divine spells available to a major god. I've seen Grow flowers used more often. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:31 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] =?iso-8859-1?Q?=5BRQ-RULES=5D_Spell_criticism_:_Dyre=92s_Inimitable_Tailor?= > Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 17:58:12 -0400 > From: Tal Meta > Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Some spells for criticism [Long] > > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > > > Dyre’s Inimitable Tailor > > 1 point spirit spell, instant, touch > > You could make this one variable, and have it make alterations > sufficient to change between size levels (small, medium, > large, & troll > (from the armor size category table)). Good Point, though to generalise that would be per 5 SIZ points of the wearer. Variable spirit spell, instant, touch This spell will adjust the size of one piece of non-magical clothing to fit the wearer. It will not, however, increase or decrease the size of a piece of clothing by more than 1 size level [The 5 SIZ bands of the armour table] per point in the spell. If it increases the amount of cloth or fittings used in the garment than additional cloth or fittings must be provided. > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > > Dyre's Inimitable Tailor > > 1 point spirit spell, instant, touch > This should be sorcery if it can wear off, > or a ritual spell from the god of tailors and > seamstresses otherwise. The sorcery spell is Form/set cloth, which doesn't wear off. Making it a ritual spell rather implies it takes an hour to cast. Ritual Craft:Sewing is tempting but I don't think the spell needs the loss of potency that implies. That it is a speciality spirit spell for Tailor/Seamstress cults and possibly Panash types is reasonable restriction. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:28 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell System Metalogic > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Some spells for criticism [Long] > > As I was writing comments, I realized that I had a > strong exception > to almost all of your spirit spells, as written. Spirit > spells are intended > for basic or primitive concepts: be strong/quick/pretty, have more > damage/accuracy/skill, turn weapon to flame, be hard to > see, heal, hurt. > Your spells have a high degree of refined intent and require a more > intelligent guiding force behind them. They are often good > divine spells, > and occasionally good sorcery spells. I will keep a copy > around to show my > players. I would argue that refined intent isn't automatically a quality that spirit magic lacks with comparison to Divine magic. Most of the standard Divine spells are pretty unsutble/ basic concepts too. Sorcery I might give you has a higher tendancy towards refinement, though that is most heavily due to it being an object orientated magic system. :). On the other hand Spirit Magic by its name implies that the spells are done by bribing minor spirits to do things. Thus intelligence is potentially available. The Tailoring spell could just be for example calling upon help from classical Brownies like which helped the Poor Shoemaker. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:38 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Opening the Tome of the Animals Mind > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > > > Opening the Tome of the Animals Mind > > 1 point spirit spell, temporal, touch > There are already some 'speak with animal' divine > spells similar in effect, if not intent. They in theory can get any number of small harmless animals to co-operate with the caster for the duration. This is closer to Granny Weatherwax's borrowing [Though the full version of that is obviously her using possession on the target]. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:41 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Writing on the Tablet of the Mind > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > Writing on the Tablet of the Mind > > Variable point spirit enchantment, > This is definitely not spirit magic. It could be > sorcery or divine > without much trouble. You might be right here, since I have problems seeing how to do this with the assistance of minor spirits. Sorcery at 1 page per point of intensity? Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:43 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Personal Immolation > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > > > Personal Immolation > > Lodril, Firshala, Zorak Zoran. > > 2 point divine spell, temporal, reusable, non-stackable. > Nice spell, but too strong for Zorak Zoran. It > should be reserved > for real fire gods. Note that Lodril has fire spear, and > this is very > similar. Given ZZ seems to have lost his Fire elementals when I wasn't looking take him off the list. Fire spear is more a super flame blade, but its damage levels imply this might need to be a 3 pt spell or have a duration of 2 rounds per magic point expended with it. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:44 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : The Emperor's New Clothes > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > > > The Emperor's New Clothes > > Trickster, Puppeteers > > 1 point divine spell, temporal, reusable, non-stackable. > Donandar, or Puppeteers, have an Invisibility divine > spell, but it > would be targeted to one object, not all possessions worn > (a GM might allow > this anyway). A good Illusion could certainly give the > impression that > someone was naked, and would be a mean parlour trick, but > the caster would > have to provide the unseen details. Being an unpleasant parlour trick is the reason its a trickster spell. Illusions are normally real so, the details show through as it were. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:40 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Vladmir's Little Green Amulet > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > Vladmir's Little Green Amulet > > Variable point spirit enchantment, Duration indefinite until > > activated, then 30 days. > You have to wonder how Uleria initiates avoid being > fertile while > worshipping a fertility goddess. Because there is more than one way to worship Uleria. [See the long form RQ3 write up on www.glorantha.com ] And because like mastering Fire enables you to put fires out as well as create them, mastering fertility enables you to decrease or increase it. > My main point is that this also sounds like divine magic. This one is here based on the Medicine bundle rules. And all those bits in Fantasy novels where the hedge witch gets asked for something of the sort. The divine equivalent, which is the Vingan's dyeing their hair doesn't require sacrifice and thus ends up in that limbo that the Head Crushing song lives in. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:45 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : The People's Revolutionary Silhouette > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > > > The People's Revolutionary Silhouette > > Trickster > > 1 point divine spell, temporal, reusable, non-stackable. > Certainly a visual illusion. Certainly it fits in the trickster specific illusion category, the question is cost. A straight Visual illusion would require Illusiory Motion [and the caster to concentrate on it]as well, but would be more general in its applications. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:46 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Bloodlust > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > > > Bloodlust > > Shargash, Blood Sun > > 3 point divine spell, temporal, reusable, non-stackable. > Nasty spell, sounds like a chaos feature. Consider > giving it to > Urraine (sp?) the Bad Wind, the evil berserker cult. Uraine sounds like a good Idea, Gargath is possible. >I might suggest changing it to 1 in 3 points given. You might be right. On the other hand given a cult granting it isn't going have access to most of the usual healing resources. How about being incompatible with Shield, Protection and Damage Resistance? Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 May 2001 16:56:47 +0100 From: "Adam Benedict Canning" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Spell criticism : Sex Change > Date: Tue, 29 May 2001 13:35:55 -0400 > From: Robert Stancliff > Adam Benedict Canning wrote: > > > > Sex Change > > Trickster, Androgeus > > 3 point divine spell, reusable, non-stackable. > To interpret 'King of Sartar', this is an action of the > Change/Movement rune. Add Larnste then. > Trickster has a change spell which > can do much of > this, and is either an Illusion or an aspect of Disorder > that truly causes > the change. The personality changes are too strong, and should be > reconsidered. The personality changes are there because its permanent, which I have probably not made clear. Adam *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #59 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.