From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.ient.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #81 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, July 3 2001 Volume 04 : Number 081 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Reputation RE: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--burn em! Re: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics RE: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--burn em! [RQ-RULES] The Killer Weed! RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 17:22:36 +0100 From: RAMEAU Alain Subject: [RQ-RULES] Reputation Or e) Use my Reputation system : http://karamo.nexen.net/glowar/reputati.htm Alain. _______________________________________________ Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 09:46:13 +0100 From: "Tom Zunder" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Stats to replace roleplaying Stats to replace roleplaying. I think wanting a stat for reputation is replacing the job of the referee with a number. BUT it is possible in several ways and accumulating points does make for happy PCs sometimes (including me when I'm in that mood). So: a: use Glory from Pendragon, basically experience points that just generate reputation and can be handed down in part to your kids. b: use allegiance from Elric!, scores in Law/Chaos/Balance, basically points for types of behaviour that fitted one of the three worldviews, once you had 20 more than all the others in one then the gods start to favour you, as you accumulate you approach Champion-ship. This could be used for RQ by having a point total per cult or pantheon, and this could either replace or supplement the requirements to be initiated, become an acolyte or achieve priestly or lordly status. It could also be used for Divine Intervention. c: use Elan from Stormbringer 1-4, similar to above but not quite the same. d: have a new derived stat of PIETY (Lee Gold used this in Lands of Adventure). Problem was for me that it worked great in a subjective sense, but not necessary culturally. - - --- T H Zunder tom@zunder.freeserve.co.uk ICQ:1521799 *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 12:28:52 -0400 From: Robert Stancliff Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics > For years I've wondered why RQ separates characteristics > from skill bonuses. It seems to me that Manipulation, > Agility, Perception, Knowledge, Communication and Stealth > are just as valid stats as STR, CON, SIZ, INT, POW, DEX > and APP. While these could have been used as stat names (some of them have been in other games), they were used in RQ to be category names for types of skills. Each type is presumed to be derived from the same combination of primary stats, and that is called the category bonus which is given the name of the category. Essentially these are Computed stats in Champions terms which add directly to the skills in their groups instead of determining the starting or base skill value. You could do as Champions did and have each skill be derived from only one stat and the modifier would probably be half the stat value or maybe stat minus 10. Experience has shown that a game works well with about 10 to 15 primary and secondary stats. Secondary stat are almost always derived from primary stats be some formula or a table lookup. Most games have 6 to 8 primary stats, doesn't Role Master have about 10? > I really don't see a need for a two-layer system. It makes > much more sense to me to have one set of Attributes, than > have one attribute affect a certain list of skills. It was a necessary intermediate step so that several skills could all influence one group of skills. I don't think that this is the only game that used this approach. For real complexity look at Chivalry and Sorcery or Role Master (but bring a calculator). Champions Stats were used to compute a Stat Roll value which became the starting target roll for all skills tied to that stat. Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 13:33:02 -0400 From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--burn em! bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: > I remember that short period when we were told that >"Your Glorantha is the true Glorantha". Now it's back to the Canon Cult. I very well remember this statement and, perhaps foolishly, still take it to heart. As far as I'm concerned, the broad-strokes outline of Glorantha laid out in the RQ3 Grand Trio of Gods of Glorantha, Glorantha: Genertela, and Elder Secrets (with some of the Missing Lands draft thrown in) established the 'common canon' for Glorantha and all of what's come since (or even what came before) are just Greg's (and others') interpretations and modifications of that baseline, no more or less valid than my own, increasingly quite different, interpretations. Maybe such an attitude doesn't show due deference and respect the The Greg's vision and brilliance, but if that's what he's after then he shouldn't have written (in the Afterword to Book 1 of Glorantha: Genertela) that Glorantha is no longer just his, but all of ours (including mine) and should've gone Prof. Barker's route from the very start. Yeah, there are some intriguing concepts and interesting details in the new HW-era material, but it's looking less and less like the Glorantha I'd spent a decade or so thinking about and playing with, and at this point (especially since I'm unwilling to pay money to gain Inner Circle Access to the Mind of Greg) I'm not willing to subsume my own efforts to The Greg's (or anyone else's) second and third guesses. I've got better things to do with my time and money (like kibbitz about SPQR!). Trent *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 11:13:24 +0800 From: Jeremy Martin Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics > Robert Stancliff bespoke: > Essentially these are Computed stats in Champions terms which add > directly to the skills in their groups instead of determining the starting > or base skill value. You could do as Champions did and have each skill be > derived from only one stat and the modifier would probably be half the stat > value or maybe stat minus 10. > Experience has shown that a game works well with about 10 to 15 primary > and secondary stats. Secondary stat are almost always derived from primary > stats be some formula or a table lookup. Most games have 6 to 8 primary > stats, doesn't Role Master have about 10? Why does a game work better with 10 - 15 stats? I kind of like the simplicity of the system Simon was mentioning. Why do you need the extra stats? In RQ, you never roll against your Agility bonus, so it's only use is as a modifier. If the mod came directly from an Agility skill, what would be lost? Jeremy > > > I really don't see a need for a two-layer system. It makes > > much more sense to me to have one set of Attributes, than > > have one attribute affect a certain list of skills. > It was a necessary intermediate step so that several skills could all > influence one group of skills. I don't think that this is the only game > that used this approach. For real complexity look at Chivalry and Sorcery > or Role Master (but bring a calculator). Champions Stats were used to > compute a Stat Roll value which became the starting target roll for all > skills tied to that stat. Gurps, too... *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 09:27:55 -0400 From: Robert Stancliff Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics > > Robert Stancliff bespoke: > > Essentially these are Computed stats in Champions terms > > which add directly to the skills in their groups instead of > > determining the starting or base skill value... > > Experience has shown that a game works well with about > > 10 to 15 primary and secondary stats. Secondary stat are > > almost always derived from primary stats be some formula or > > a table lookup. Most games have 6 to 8 primary stats, > > doesn't Role Master have about 10? > Jeremy rebutted: > Why does a game work better with 10 - 15 stats? I kind of > like the simplicity of the system Simon was mentioning. > Why do you need the extra stats? I probably underestimated... D&D has 6 primary stats, 5 saving throws, and about 3 secondary stats. Champions has 8 primary stats, 5 computed stats, and 5 computed rolls based on stats. Role Master has 10 primary stats, 10 stat bonuses, 6 saving throws, 2 to 4 secondary stats, and every skill has a bonus based on 1 to 3 stat bonuses. The model is a more realistic simulation, but it gets clumsy. Chivalry & Sorcery had 8 to 10 stats all of which had 1 or 2 computed stats, plus some other secondary stats. I have never seen a game with more secondary stat modifiers. RQ has 7 primary stats, 7 category bonuses, and HP, MP, and FP as secondary stats, so that's actually 17 stats (I avoided counting movement rate in all of these). Simon combined the category bonuses with the primary stats and reduced the number to about 10 with 2 or 3 secondary stats. He appears to have reclassified all the skills to assign each to one of the stats and adds the stat as a modifier. That would be simpler, have generous bonuses, and be quick to compute. > In RQ, you never roll against your Agility bonus, so it's > only use is as a modifier. If the mod came directly from > an Agility skill, what would be lost? I am not saying it is a bad idea, but I personally prefer having bonuses computed from more than one stat. When a skill is modified by Dex and Int you are recognizing that quickness is important, but so is strategy and deviousness. I can play a game where stats are derived from a single skill, but it is a weaker model of the world we see. Simon hasn't given us any clues for how the stat values are determined. Are they rolled or computed? Does he add the stat in directly or subtract a value so that there are negative modifiers? Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 07:04:11 -0700 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--burn em! bjm10@cornell.edu : >The Greg is an old man, now. He sees the biggest thing he's ever made before >him and he wants to make sure that it is under his control. Right or >wrong, it's the way it is--and let's face it, most of us would want to do >that, too. Why else would there be such a push to put the entire world to >bed (embalm it, to all intents an purposes)? Greg is striving to keep Hero Wars material consistent. For various reasons, some parts of the Gloranthan material produced over the last 25 years has contained inconsistencies, so I think with a new product line and game system, it's reasonable to try and clean that up. > ...The older I get, the more >work it takes for me to tolerate loose ends and variations on my >interpretations. I remember that short period when we were told that >"Your Glorantha is the true Glorantha". Now it's back to the Canon Cult. That is (a) rubbish, and (b) disingenuous. Only this month, on a list you subscribe to, Greg said : >At 01:04 PM 6/12/2001, you wrote: >>This isn't worth getting hung up over, frankly. If you >>want to use *only* official materials in your game, stick >>with Issaries' books. > >I want to emphasize that I agree with thi spoint. >I always expect that the rule for HW is: YGMV> Whether or not something is cannon isn't worth getting hung over about, and YGMV - Your Game May Vary - is the rule for Hero Wars. >Now it's being presented as "Glorantha as it is and as we KNOW IT MUST >BE". This isn't all The Greg's doing. Where did that come from? I really don't know what you're talking about. Greg has gone out of his way to support fan publications, such as Reaching Moon Megacorp's Lunar Empire material, that is explicitly non-cannon. He's even been a contributor to non-cannon source material such as the Rough Guide to Glamour, and Tales specials on the Lunar Empire. How much more could you possibly expect the guy to do to make it clear that he's perfectly happy with people using non-cannon material for their games? His own material appears side by side with them. I really don't see that this has to be incompatible with trying to keep a product line internally consistent. They're both reasonable, pragmatic acts. I'm not saying Greg is a saint, or that he hasn't made mistakes. There are some areas where I disagree with him, as do others. But at the end of the day Glorantha is his intellectual property, and his opinion will always weigh more heavily in the balance than anyone else's. That's life. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 06:17:57 -0700 From: "First Name Last Name" Subject: [RQ-RULES] The Killer Weed! Question: what would the game effects be of getting high in RuneQuest? Specifically, what would the effects of pot be? I'm trying to come up with some new found items for the Chaos Project, and pot came to mind. Since I have to admit that I never tried it, I'm not entirely sure what the effect would be. Some sort of mild penalty to all rolls, perhaps? My understanding is that the penalty should probably be much less than for being drunk. Also, how should the munchies be represented--I don't believe they happen every time? How long does it take to wear off? This is the penalty I pay for having a boring adolescence. :o) Incidentally, there are now over 400 found items, 385 chaotic features, and 77.5 magic items on the Project. Did I hear that Steve Perrin was working on a new version of RQ? How can I get a copy? Anyway, here's a recent magic item made with the imbue rules (which are at http://www.maranci.net/imbue.htm): Ice Crystal, unique, 14 POW History: Created seven years ago by The Deep Thinkers, a group of brilliant young Knowledge scholars, who sold it to a highly-placed noble. It was recently stolen from the noble, who has placed a reward for its return. The Deep Thinkers disappeared without explanation four years ago, incidentally. Description: A very clean, straight broadsword which hisses slightly, gives off a cold smoke, and gradually becomes rimed with frost as it is used. The hilt is heavily wrapped in pale blue leather, with a large pale blue stone at the crosspiece. The scabbard is made of metal wrapped in brown leather. Powers: The blade does an additional 1d10 of cold damage to flesh once it has penetrated armor. Pain and shock are reduced due to the numbing effect of the cold; all rolls are improved by a category, i.e. if a CON x 3 roll is needed to avoid shock only CON x 2 need be rolled. The cold effect has been known to paralyze hit locations for several rounds; this is determined by an opposed resolution of the cold damage inflicted vs. the normal full hit points of the struck location. Depending on weather the cold powers of the blade gradually fade, taking between half an hour to an hour to entirely vanish. Each third successful (armor-penetrating) blow reduces the cold damage done by the blade by one point. Secret: Unknown to most, the blade itself is not actually magical. In fact, there are six identical blades which have been used as the Ice Crystal, and constructing more would be fairly easy. The magic is in the scabbard, which is an exceptionally effective Cool Vat (q.v.). The blade is cooled by the scabbard, reaching its coldest temperature after being stored for 8 hours. The blades provided by The Deep Thinkers for use with the scabbard are specially made; the metal is particularly resilient, and less likely to shatter from the extreme cold. The hilts are heavily insulated, but the use of leather gloves is still advised when wielding the chilled blade. Only three blades remain to the noble who owned the sword; one was shattered in a particularly violent demonstration, and another was stolen some time ago (but since the scabbard was left behind, the theft was of no importance--the latest theft included the scabbard as well as a blade). Other blades could be used in the scabbard, although the less perfect the fit, the less the effectiveness of the cooling--plus, of course, the other obvious dangers. Imbued: (in scabbard) Darkwall (2), Extinguish 4 - -- Peter Maranci peter@maranci.net Pete's RuneQuest & Roleplaying! http://www.maranci.net/rq.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------ - --== Sent via Deja.com ==-- http://www.deja.com/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #81 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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