From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.ient.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #82 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Tuesday, July 3 2001 Volume 04 : Number 082 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics Re: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light RE: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword pro viding light Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light Re: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics Re: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light Re: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:35:34 -0700 From: Simon Hibbs Subject: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics Robert Stancliff : > Role Master has 10 primary stats, 10 stat bonuses, 6 saving throws, 2 to >4 secondary stats, and every skill has a bonus based on 1 to 3 stat bonuses. >The model is a more realistic simulation, but it gets clumsy. It's a more complicated simulation, but I defy you to demonstrate that it's more realistic. > Simon combined the category bonuses with the primary stats and reduced >the number to about 10 with 2 or 3 secondary stats. He appears to have >reclassified all the skills to assign each to one of the stats and adds the >stat as a modifier. That would be simpler, have generous bonuses, and be >quick to compute. I think that's a pretty accurate interpretation of what I was saying, and thank you (I consider all of those qualities in a game to be desirable). As an aside, I was assuming the RQ stat range of 3D6, although personally I prefer 2D6+6 for all stats, as in Elric. I don't think it's particularly generous. I've seen plenty of characters with Magic modifiers of +20, and Agility and Manipulation modifiers can often exceed +10, so it's not all that big a change. > I am not saying it is a bad idea, but I personally prefer having bonuses >computed from more than one stat. When a skill is modified by Dex and Int >you are recognizing that quickness is important, but so is strategy and >deviousness. I can play a game where stats are derived from a single skill, >but it is a weaker model of the world we see. I really don't think that's true. I know plenty of extremely intelligent people who are as clumsy as apes (INT modifies Manipulation?). Plenty of very dexterous people as agile as a donkey (DEX primary for both Agility and Manipulation?) etc. For just about every cross-linking between attributes in RQ, I can think of someone I know who proves that in reality, those traits are not necessarily linked. I'm sure we all can. The more complex a system gets, and the more traits it cross-links together, the less it seems to model the enormous variation we see between individual people. To my mind, the best way to emulate this variation in a game is to give character creators as much freedom in creating a character as possible, with as few arbitrary assumptions as possible. Simon Hibbs *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:50:39 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Brian Newman Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Simon Hibbs wrote: > [...] > As an aside, I was assuming the RQ stat range of 3D6, although personally I > prefer 2D6+6 for all stats, as in Elric. I don't think it's particularly > generous. > I've seen plenty of characters with Magic modifiers of +20, and Agility and > Manipulation modifiers can often exceed +10, so it's not all that big a > change. [...] The only problem is that now you can't have a sneak-thief-type who's naturally good at it because of low SIZ and POW. Almost everyone is going to start with a very low Stealth modifier. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 10:16:44 -0700 From: Brad Furst Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light And what's this I hear about every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light for the Humakti to see in darkness? Is that new with HW, or was that illumination included in RQ3 or RQ2? >bjm10@cornell.edu wrote: >> I remember that short period when we were told that > >"Your Glorantha is the true Glorantha". Now it's back to the Canon Cult. > >Yeah, there are some intriguing concepts and interesting details in >the new HW-era material, but it's looking less and less like the >Glorantha I'd spent a decade or so thinking about and playing with, Brad Furst esoteric@teleport.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:39:45 -0400 From: Robert Stancliff Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword pro viding light > And what's this I hear about every Humakti Initiate's sword > providing light for the Humakti to see in darkness? Is that > new with HW, or was that illumination included in RQ3 or RQ2? > Brad Furst I haven't run across that yet... certainly HW, but getting light from the Torch of Truth isn't that far-fetched. It is a very simple runic association. It does have a certain similarity, though, to D&D swords that all glow in the dark. Still, in RQ there is no reason that Bladesharp doesn't provide a subtle light, except that it negates much of the need for light spells in a combat. Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 13:45:02 -0400 From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light Brad Furst wrote: > And what's this I hear about every Humakti Initiate's sword providing >light for the Humakti to see in darkness? Is that new with HW, or >was that illumination included in RQ3 or RQ2? I remember Illumination in RQ, but not like that. Are you just making this up as a troll for Canonistas or is it for real? Trent *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:12:34 -0700 From: Brad Furst Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light >Brad Furst wrote: >> And what's this I hear about every Humakti Initiate's sword providing >>light for the Humakti to see in darkness? Is that new with HW, or >>was that illumination included in RQ3 or RQ2? > >I remember Illumination in RQ, but not like that. Are you just >making this up as a troll for Canonistas or is it for real? I believe _Cults_of_Prax_ declares that the blade (of an initiate of Humakt) "shines." HW declares that it shines with light visible [only] to the bearer of the sword. I'll seek the quote. Nevertheless, so far, it seems a surprise to other folks as to me. ____ Brad *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:54:51 -0400 From: Viktor Haag Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light Brad Furst writes: > And what's this I hear about every Humakti Initiate's sword > providing light for the Humakti to see in darkness? Is that > new with HW, or was that illumination included in RQ3 or RQ2? Cults of Prax, p 38: "Marks of the Initiate and Sword levels of Humakt worshippers are the well-polished swrods they bear. Once iniated, a Humakti's sword always shines." That's the only reference in CoP I could find. I don't have Gods of Glorantha close at hand (nor Storm Tribe), so I can't help you on that count. I certainly wouldn't have interpreted the above passage from Cults of Prax as meaning the sword had some unearthly light that worked as a torch or lantern. Or even that the 'sword always shining' meant anything more supernatural than that a Humakti is well taught to care (perhaps obsessively so) for his weapon. - -- Viktor Haag : Software & Information Design : Research In Motion +--+ "Well, I'm no spring chicken, but I AM a well-seasoned chicken..." *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:57:30 -0400 From: Viktor Haag Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light Brad Furst writes: > I believe _Cults_of_Prax_ declares that the blade (of an > initiate of Humakt) "shines." HW declares that it shines with > light visible [only] to the bearer of the sword. I'll seek > the quote. It's there (see my other post, CoP p38). However, there's certainly no mention about it acting as a light source, and comes right after a comment on how Humakti devotees "take care to polish their weapons". I read it simply as the sword also flashing in the sun, a la HK Wu Xia epics. - -- Viktor Haag : Software & Information Design : Research In Motion +--+ "Oh yeah, touching it was my first impulse! Luckily, I moved onto my second, which involves dry heaving and running like hell!" *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:11:05 -0700 From: Brad Furst Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light >Cults of Prax, p 38: > >"Marks of the Initiate and Sword levels of Humakt worshippers are >the well-polished swrods they bear. Once iniated, a Humakti's >sword always shines." Thank you. I am still seeking the HW quote. >I certainly wouldn't have interpreted the above passage from >Cults of Prax as meaning the sword had some unearthly light that >worked as a torch or lantern. Or even that the 'sword always >shining' meant anything more supernatural than that a Humakti is >well taught to care (perhaps obsessively so) for his weapon. That a Humakti is well taught to care (perhaps obsessively so) for his weapon is exactly my interpretation for the last 15-20 (whatever) years. ____ Brad *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 15:30:49 -0400 From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light Viktor Haag wrote: >> Brad Furst writes: > > And what's this I hear about every Humakti Initiate's sword > > providing light for the Humakti to see in darkness? Is that > > new with HW, or was that illumination included in RQ3 or RQ2? >Cults of Prax, p 38: >"Marks of the Initiate and Sword levels of Humakt worshippers are >the well-polished swrods they bear. Once iniated, a Humakti's >sword always shines." >That's the only reference in CoP I could find. I sure don't remember that; I guess I interpreted the same way as everyone else (that Humakti are persnickety about maintianing their gear) and promptly forgot about it as being insiginificant. >I don't have Gods of Glorantha close at hand (nor Storm Tribe), >so I can't help you on that count. GoG's short form write-up mentions nothing of the sort. For completeness' sake, does anybody have the RQ3 long-form write-up from TotRM #5 within reach? Though published in Tales, IIRC it was written by Stafford & Petersen and labeled as Official. Trent *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 23:12:05 +0100 From: David Ford Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light There is no mention of Humakti Initiate's sword providing light in the RQ3 Humakt write-up published in ToTRM #5. David *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 08:30:48 +0800 From: Jeremy Martin Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics No... You just don't have the 'trade off' that high (or low) POW and SIZ give. There's no more "Wow, he's big. Guess I better not be a thief!" But you can still roll a very high Stealth and say, "He must be small..." But I think more than ever, you'd have to go with a point system so that it would be impossible to have moderately high levels of everything. Maybe your (eight?) stats times 10 and let them go 15 in favored stats and 5 in some others. Still thinking about it... Jeremy Brian Newman wrote: > On Tue, 3 Jul 2001, Simon Hibbs wrote: > > > [...] > > As an aside, I was assuming the RQ stat range of 3D6, although personally I > > prefer 2D6+6 for all stats, as in Elric. I don't think it's particularly > > generous. > > I've seen plenty of characters with Magic modifiers of +20, and Agility and > > Manipulation modifiers can often exceed +10, so it's not all that big a > > change. [...] > > The only problem is that now you can't have a sneak-thief-type who's > naturally good at it because of low SIZ and POW. Almost everyone is > going to start with a very low Stealth modifier. > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:12:35 +0000 (/etc/localtime) From: Brian Newman Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Jeremy Martin wrote: > No... You just don't have the 'trade off' that high (or low) POW and SIZ give. > There's no more "Wow, he's big. Guess I better not be a thief!" > > But you can still roll a very high Stealth and say, "He must be small..." You can? So, you have a separate roll to generate "Stealth modifier"? How do you explain, say, SIZ 17, POW 18, DEX 10, and super-high Stealth? :) *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:26:08 -0700 From: Brad Furst Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Canon Cultists--every Humakti Initiate's sword providing light >Thank you. I am still seeking the HW quote. _Storm_Tribe_ p.93 "The Death Light of the Shining Sword "The swords of Humakti are always shine [sic], and often flash when they are first unsheathed. this Death Light is bright enough for Humakti to see around them as if it was day, but non-Humakti cannot even see the light. Sometimes a Humakti's sword glows brightly enough to light a passage through darkness or to be visible to non-Humakti." Brad Furst esoteric@teleport.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:53:08 +0800 From: Jeremy Martin Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Attributes/Characteristics This was in reply to Mr. Hibbs' suggestion that we change the stats around. His list doesn't include SIZ as a stat, and my system already doesn't use POW as a modifier to category bonuses... I'm playing around with his system and seeing how it feels. I have no problem with high DEX and low Stealth or vice versa. I'm sure we all know people who are good with their hands, but not particularly quiet. Personally, I am big and don't have fast reflexes but am pretty quiet when I want to be. "How do you explain, say, SIZ 17, POW 18, DEX 10, and super-high Stealth? :)" Practice? Growing up in the woods? Low APP, so nobody really notices you? (point being that what RQ says should modify Stealth isn't the only possible route) Jeremy Brian Newman wrote: > On Wed, 4 Jul 2001, Jeremy Martin wrote: > > > No... You just don't have the 'trade off' that high (or low) POW and SIZ give. > > There's no more "Wow, he's big. Guess I better not be a thief!" > > > > But you can still roll a very high Stealth and say, "He must be small..." > > You can? So, you have a separate roll to generate "Stealth > modifier"? How do you explain, say, SIZ 17, POW 18, DEX 10, and > super-high Stealth? :) > > *************************************************************************** > To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com > with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #82 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. 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