From: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com (RuneQuest Rules Digest) To: runequest-rules-digest@lists.ient.com Subject: RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #91 Reply-To: runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Sender: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Errors-To: owner-runequest-rules@lists.ient.com Precedence: bulk RuneQuest Rules Digest Wednesday, July 11 2001 Volume 04 : Number 091 RuneQuest is a trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. All Rights Reserved. TABLE OF CONTENTS RE: [RQ-RULES] D&D3 in RQ [RQ-RULES] More realistic swordfighting in DnD ? Re: [RQ-RULES] Attack, Parry [RQ-RULES] Some Thunder Rebels Conversions RE: [RQ-RULES] D&D3 in RQ RE: [RQ-RULES] Attack, Parry RULES OF THE ROAD 1. Do not include large sections of a message in your reply. Especially not to add "Yeah, I agree" or "No, I disagree." Or be excoriated. If someone writes something good and you want to say "good show" please do. But don't include the whole message you praise. 2. Use an appropriate Subject line. 3. Learn the art of paraphrasing: Don't just quote and comment on a point-by-point basis. 4. No anonymous posting, please. Don't say something unless you're ready to stand by it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 08:29:50 -0400 From: Robert Stancliff Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] D&D3 in RQ > > > My next biggest question is do I make characters pay magic > > > points for casting wizard and clerical spells, for now I am > > > going with yes at 1pt per level of the spell; and will these > > > spells take up Int - yes for wizards?, no for clerics? > > > > I would think that 2MP per level might balance better. > > Why would you say so? I would think that 2pt may make these > spells too powerful? A Counter magic 6 would only be able to > defend against a third level spell. Most D&D spells have areas of effect that RQ spells don't, they operate at a higher power level than RQ spells, and if you compare them to sorcery, it is only fitting that they have higher MP costs for the extra manipulation. On the other hand that doesn't mean that the Intensity is higher. Spending 2MP for a first level spell doesn't preclude it from being assigned an intensity of 1 and being dispelled with Dispel Magic 1. You would essentially need to review the spell list to judge how much of the spell is intensity and how much is other effects. On a related issue, most D&D spells are variable to the caster's level, so the intensity changes over time, and the costs should change as well. Stancliff *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 13:43:22 +0100 From: RAMEAU Alain Subject: [RQ-RULES] More realistic swordfighting in DnD ? In DnD3, the Armor Class is not only the armor, but a kind of overall defense (in fact in Star Wars D20, it is called Defense !) : it is calculated by adding the armor value (AP in RQ), the shield value (Parry in RQ), the DEX bonus (Dodge in RQ), a SIZ modifier (the bigger the easier to get hit), and may include some defensive ability modifier (Monk class, with Martial Arts) or special feats modifiers. Alain. Ideas to play in Glorantha with DnD3 system can be found (in French) at : http://karamo.nexen.net/dnd/gd20.htm > >Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 01:27:38 +0200 >From: Julian Lord >Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Attack, Parry > > >But following these suggestions would also imply making armour much more >effective, and also implies that D&D provides more realistic combat simulation >than RQ !?!! > >Julian > *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 15:17:03 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: Re: [RQ-RULES] Attack, Parry Jim : > Sorry guys, can you repost that interview's URL? I meant to save it and > now it's disappeared off into the ether, and I'd like to comment on this > debate. http://www.thehaca.com/oakeshottinterview.htm Julian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 14:45:14 +0100 From: "Nikk Effingham" Subject: [RQ-RULES] Some Thunder Rebels Conversions Hi! After vanishing for a while, I've managed to relocate the digest. I'm not sure if anyone's sent any TR conversions for RuneQuest, so apologies if you have and they were superior to mine : ) Included here are conversions for half of the Orlanth Adventurous cults, I've got the other half somewhere, but can't seem to find them. Tatouth the Scout Teaches Farsee and always is associated with Issaries to teach Path Watch. Teaches the following additional spells. Commune With the Lady (Rune Magic) 1 point self only, temporal, nonstackable, reusable The caster can commune with the spirits and daimones of the Lady of the Wild. In effect it allows him to see nature spirits and local spirits dedicated to the Lady of the Wild, and to talk to them. If required, his effective Speak Spiritspeech is the higher out of his skill in Speak Spiritspeech or Speak Own Language. Find Path (Rune Magic) 1 point self only, duration one day, stackable, reusable This spell allows the caster to detect the paths laid out by Tatouth the Scout during the Godsage. They worm all over the world, everywhere the Discovery Band went. The caster chooses his destination, in order to figure out which Path is the one he is looking for, and casts the spell. If there is a path to the destination (which the GM should decide) then the Scout can lead people there. This spell increases movement rate per day by 30%, and lasts for one day per point in the spell. Tatouth's Promise (Rune Magic) 1 point ritual ceremony, duration 1 day, stackable, one-use This ritual is cast before going on a journey. Once cast, the caster will always be able to find a way home, no matter the circumstances there will always be some path open to him. Whether lost in the wilderness, or stranded on a small island near Jrustela, there will always be some path that the scout can find. If he should die in his travels, his soul will be guided safely across the Spirit Plane and inform his family of his demise. This effect lasts for one day for every point in the spell. Vanganth the Flyer Teaches the skill of Sword Throwing (see my Heroic Skills) to any rune lord and Vanganthi Fighting Style to any initiate or higher. Also teaches the following spells. Vanganthi Fighting Style (New Skill) Agility Base 00% This skill is a cult secret of the Vanganth cult. It can only be used by cultists under the effect of the Flight rune spell. The cultist learns to sweep in very fast and attack an opponent from above, preventing them from getting any return attack. When attacking normally like this, the flying attacker would swoop down, attack and the defender would receive an attack of opportunity (see RuneQuest combat section). However, if the attack roll is under Vanganthi Fighting Style skill the attacker can make an attack, and the defender will not receive an attack of opportunity. If you use riposte rules, the attacker is still entitled to such an attack. For every point of ENC the character has, this skill is reduced by one percentile (just as with Dodge etc...). Vanganth's Strength (Spirit Magic) variable self only, temporal, passive For every point of this spell, the caster's effective ENC is reduced by 3 points for the purposes of calculating weight for the Flight spell. For instance, normally Varak the Vanganthi is SIZ 12 and carries 12 ENC, thus requiring a Flight 3 to move. However, if he casts 4 points of Vanganth's Strength this will be reduce his effective ENC to zero for the purposes of the Flight spell and he will only need a Flight 2. This does not lower ENC for any other purpose, such as Dodge, Swim, or casting magic, nor give any fatigue points back to the character. Avoid Storms (Rune Magic) 1 point self only, temporal, stackable, reusable This spell allows a Vanganthi to avoid the dangers of a storm whilst flying, such as debris, lightning, torrential rain, thunder claps and high winds. The Vanganthi will simply fly around unhindered. Each point will allow the caster to ignore two levels of storm whilst flying, so an Avoid Storm 1 will avoid the dangers of a breeze, whilst an Avoid Storm 4 will render him immune to a Hurricane. Refer to RuneQuest in the Ships and Sailing chapter for the levels of a storm. Into Middle Air (Rune Magic) 3 points ritual ceremony, reusable Normally those who fly can only fly so high, even the sorcery magic of the meldeks can only take you as high as the tallest mountain, and the normal rune magic can only take you twice as high. This spell allows a Vanganthi to fly higher than that, as high as the Red Moon itself, the entire realm of Middle Air. Of course, the Vanganthi will have to have numerous points of Avoid Storm and Extension to make this possible, but a small temple has enough magic to achieve this. This spell is also used to begin many Vanganthi HeroQuests. Varanorlanth Teaches Find Enemies, Find Water, Find Food, Precision [various survival skills] and the the following spell. Burrow (Spirit Magic) variable self only, temporal, passive This spell allows the caster to burrow into soft earth, much as a badger would. Each point allows him to shift eight cubic metres an hour. The caster can only burrow into normal, soft ground. Wild Strength (Rune Magic) 2 points ranged, temporal, nonstackable, reusable This spell doubles the characters STR with no limit on the maximum. The target must be in the wild (use your own discretion as to what this means, no cities, dungeons, taverns etc...). Vingkot the Champion Teaches the following spells, as well as Darksee. Scatter Shadows (Spirit Magic) variable ranged, instant This spell can destroy the magics of the shadow krjalki, such as trolls and shades. It removes an existing spell that is connected to the Darkness Rune (Command Shade, Call Shadow etc...) if the double the intensity of the Scatter Shadows spell is greater than or equal to the spell in question. May be cast at a target without specifying a spell; will knock out defensive spells first. Run in Darkness (Spirit Magic) variable ranged, temporal, passive Each point of this spell adds two to the target's movement rating for the duration. It is only effective when in more than 70% darkness, such as a troll lair or the dead of night. Tooth Shattering Armour (Spirit Magic) variable ranged, temporal, passive Each point of this spell gives three points of protection to the target against bite attacks. It acts in every way like magical armour. Break Bludgeons (Rune Magic) 1 point ranged, temporal, stackable, reusable This spell is cast at mauls and maces. If they are non-magical then resist their ap's on the resistance table versus a value of 10 for every point in the spell. So, a Break Bludegons 2 means a non-magical maul must resist it's ap's versus 20. If successful, the weapon shatters. If the weapon is magical then resist the ap's on the resistance table versus the pointage of the spell. So a Break Bludgeons 7 would have match 7 verus the ap's of a magical maul. If successful, the weapon shatters. Even if wielded, there is no magic points contest, unless the maul itself has a spirit within it (such as an allied spirit, bound spirits do not count). Cripple Troll (Rune Magic) 2 points ranged, instant, nonstackable, reusable This spell can only be cast on Uz. If the caster overcomes the target's magic points they are overcome wih agony and incapacitated for the caster's POW in melee rounds. They may attempt an heroic action if they wish to do anything. Nightjumping (Rune Magic) 1 point ranged, temporal, nonstackable, reusable Once cast the target may leap around. They may, as an action, leap upto their STR in metres. They must make a successful Jump roll to land, or suffer the consequences of a bad landing. This may be combined with an attack, in which case they gain a +20% to hit, and the hit location roll is 1d10+10, but if they fail the Jump roll they end up on the floor and at the mercy of their foe. This can only be cast at night, and can only be used at Night. _________________________________ Nikk Effingham University E-mail:phl0nje@leeds.ac.uk Permanent E-mail: nikk@MailAndNews.com Webpage: http://members.nbci.com/wakboth/ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:11:55 -0400 From: "Leon B Kirshtein" Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] D&D3 in RQ - ---- Robert Stancliff wrote: > > > I would think that 2MP per level might balance better. > > > > Why would you say so? I would think that 2pt may make these > > spells too powerful? A Counter magic 6 would only be able to > > defend against a third level spell. > > Most D&D spells have areas of effect that RQ spells don't, Yes >they operate at a higher power level than RQ spells, Only with the respect that they are area effect. What is why I want it to be easier to defend against. > Spending 2MP for a first level spell doesn't preclude it from > being > assigned an intensity of 1 and being dispelled with Dispel Magic 1. This is a really good idea! The reverse of Divine magic. > You > would essentially need to review the spell list to judge how much of > the spell is intensity and how much is other effects. I would rather just make a blanket rule. > On a related issue, most D&D spells are variable to the caster's > level, > so the intensity changes over time, and the costs should change as > well. I am warry of making the same spell more expensive to cast as the wizard gains levels (it does not seem logical, if anything it should be the reverse). How about, (spell level + casters level) /2 (no rounding) as the intensity, but spell level x2 as the casting cost and casting time? Leon Kirshtein ___________________________________________________________________ To get your own FREE ZDNet Onebox - FREE voicemail, email, and fax, all in one place - sign up today at http://www.zdnetonebox.com *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:26:35 +0200 From: Julian Lord Subject: RE: [RQ-RULES] Attack, Parry Bob : > > > Valid point, but isn't as much of an issue with sword/shield... > > Julian: > > Actually yes. The guy says that armored fighters tried to > > avoid doing any parrying at all, unless some vital piece of > > their armor went missing ; because using one of your moves > > to physically block an attack leaves you wide open for a > > quick follow-up move. > > I suggest that you read the article again. It was quite precise in > discussing the avoidance of parrying a weapon with your sword. A bit of free association from : OAKESHOTT: "It’s not proper or historical for a medieval sword. John Waller agrees and points out that parrying was something to be avoided at all costs except when absolutely necessary, such as when your helmet fell off or something like that." HACA: "That has certainly been our experience with cutting swords. Those who go out of their way to parry open themselves up to all sorts of actions. . . . I think that my basic conclusions from these comments, about maneuvering vs. parrying in armoured close combat, seem to hold up. Ob-shields, they hung from your shoulders on a strap AFAIK, and a fighter wouldn't need to move very much to use one. Basically making sure it was between your body and the assailant's weapon. Something like the hoplite/shield wall rules in RQ? > It made it > clear that sword parry made you vulnerable and damaged your sword, at least > if you edge parry. Yeah ; the main focus of the article (edge parrying is A Bad Idea unless you can't afford not to) isn't terribly useful for RQ, but there are some interesting little details here and there. > It stated that avoiding a blow (dodging) was far > superior to a sword parry. No other technique or weapon was mentioned, and > shields were never brought into the discussion (to the best of my memory). Only once, but it's a nice reference : OAKESHOTT: "I'm sure that was done only in absolute extremity. Basically, I think the edge wasn't used, it would be ridiculous, it would ruin it. It frequently comes up in the Sagas such as in one battle at sea where men were fighting in their ship and they said 'Our swords aren't biting anymore', so the leader went and got new swords from his sea chest under his high seat and gave them fresh blades, but you see they were smacking them against mail and shields and that would have blunted them. So they needed sharp ones to fight with." Not that I'm advocating Sharpness & Bluntness rules for RQ... Although I suppose that "Lose edge (edged weapons only). Reduce weapon damage by 1D3 points" _could_ be added to the Fumble table... > The reason the article went in this direction was that they were pointing > out the gross flaw in old movies of having renaissance style sword duels > with middle age weapons. People just didn't fight sword to sword without > shields in the earlier periods because the weapon blunted and nicked too > easily and thrusting was not a used tactic with the larger and heavier > swords. Yep. > These parrying sword styles did not become normal until the gentlemen's > duels with foils or rapiers when better quality steel could take a hit from > a light weapon such as another rapier and not be damaged. I don't think that it had anything to do with better quality steel, but the fact that the weapons were cheaper and more easily replaced, and the fact that the gentlemen he mentions wore no armour, which made edge parrying a valid technique. Three Musketeers bla-bla-bla... > That's what I got out of the article. Right! What I got out of the article is some insight into armoured fighting techniques, and that RQ doesn't really mirror those techniques very well. I think I'd definitely like to see Maneuver added to Parry and Dodge as a basic Defence option. No problem for my own house rules, but how about in standard RQ3? I suppose the defender would roll it before the other guy attacked? Maybe a successful maneuver could give you extra APs for the rest of the round? How many? Or maybe you could impose a negative modifier on the other guy's attack instead? Julian *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. ------------------------------ End of RuneQuest Rules Digest V4 #91 ************************************ *************************************************************************** To unsubscribe from this list send mail to majordomo@lists.ient.com with the line 'unsubscribe runequest-rules' as the body of the message. RuneQuest is a Trademark of Hasbro/Avalon Hill Games. With the exception of previously copyrighted material, unless specified otherwise all text in this digest is copyright by the author or authors, with rights granted to copy for personal use, to excerpt in reviews and replies, and to archive unchanged for electronic retrieval.